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Dane's Hybrid Conversion Thread

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Dane, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [May 24, 2011]
    this one is 10psi currently
  2. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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    [May 25, 2011]
    So on the rollers we went last night, managed 252 at 16 psi but the actuator isn't playing ball and needs resetting (i think) so thats as far as it got last night as it needs to go back on the ramps.

    BUT it sounds fast which is half the battle, lol
  3. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [May 25, 2011]
    haha. bloody actuator! What's it doing? Not enough pre load?

    Can Wellys final map in 338bhp form not be used on yours straight away? or is his ECU too different to yours?
  4. badger5
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    [May 25, 2011]
    no
    totally different ecu's
    wellys is non wideband non egt, 512k ecu
    danes is wideband, egt, 1mb ecu

    chalk + cheese

    Actuator is a right pain to access now .. someones stuck a larger tubular exhaust manifold in the way ! duh!
    7psi is what its running, where it should have been at least 10psi.. frigging thing..
  5. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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    [May 25, 2011]
    The preload was set fine on the bench but it this wasn't replicated on the dyno.

    Wellys is a different ecu IIRC

    What he said^
  6. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Basically, as dumb as a shrimp sandwich....
  7. cecilthesausage
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    cecilthesausage ...It's Never Finished...

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Nearly there Dane.... Lots of hand rubbing going on lol
  8. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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  9. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [May 25, 2011]
    That's annoying dude. More annoying for Bill than you ;)

    Are the actuators setup by CR or whateve turbo refurb company you use?
  10. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Was it a new actuator fitted an refurb dude?
  11. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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    [May 25, 2011]
    I think so, Bill knows the details though.

    Westle the actuators are set to one of 3 different values (I think) and then Bill just changes it to what he wants it to be lol.
  12. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Bill has a small pressure gun that is used to apply pressure to the actuator. That way you can physically see when the actuator is opening. You can then adjust the actuator rod length to apply more or less preload to get it to open at more or less PSI.

    Simples.
  13. cecilthesausage
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    cecilthesausage ...It's Never Finished...

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    [May 25, 2011]
    And then movin on to cock rubbin when pullin away from Bills:laugh:
  14. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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    [May 25, 2011]
    oh dear... and I thought this was a respectable well mannered forum... :lmfao:

    You cowboy Cecil!
  15. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Ahhhh thanks. I was just wondering as my turbo is off for a standard refurb next week. Should I be asking Turbo Dynamics to set the actuator at a certain pressure?
  16. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [May 25, 2011]
    I thought the rod looked at the end of the adjuster on that pic compared to mine......

    [​IMG]

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    dont know if that had been adjusted then of course...
  17. badger5
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    [May 25, 2011]

    Actuator "was'nt" the one which went to them... I marked all components.. a.n.other returned! oh so typically from CR

    rod length is a lot shorter than others, again, no consistency. It does start to crack open on its setting at 9-10psi tho which is what I bench set it to. Runs 7psi actual boost tho.. Now adjusted it to crack at 14psi, so another 4psi should get it to where I wanted it.
  18. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Not the first time that's happened either.
  19. badger5
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    [May 25, 2011]
    yes the rod is short compared to the others I have seen. static crack pressure checked out at 0-10psi this morning, so I had'nt gone mad.. it was what I set it to.. but its actual opening pressure for boost was an actual 7psi.. Adjusted it so its now cracking at 14psi, so 4-5psi higher than before.. so hopefully we see boost come back to what its being requested to.

    Mani glows well as we saw last night when "exercising it" - lol
  20. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [May 25, 2011]
    IT seems that CR do a good job but I've heard a lot of reports of their inconsistancy recently (mainly from this forum). This is why I've decided to send my turbo to Turbo Dynamics.
  21. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Is the map your running much different to mine bill?
  22. badger5
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    [May 25, 2011]
    at the minute steve I am starting with whats your current map.. n75 controlled.. no mbc at this moment.. we set your n75 map to be progressive and it runs just about a bar of boost request and this increases over 4.5krpm to 1.5bar

    I have run danes just now... the actuators shyte.. Ordered a Forge one, which I need to collect in a couple of hours.
    I checked the new preload crack pressure which is 14psi, but on actuator pressure only it only runs 8.5-9psi, only a couple up on before. Thats quite some discrepency in its opening pressure vs its actual running pressure. Now its all hot I cant get near it to alter it without 3rd degree burns.. Its going to have to wait until later this evening/later afternoon I think.

    Now.. despite its weak actuator the boost is 16psi, rising to 18psi (should be 22-24psi) its 296bhp on the one run I just did. It bodes well power wise vs the boost its currently running.

    plots showing the discrepency
    Red is actual actuator pressure last night vs 10psi on bench
    Blue is adjusted actuator pressure just now vs 14psi on bench
    yellow is n75 on, and falling off requested boost
    Oddly, 4psi change on bench is only about 1/2 that in actual boost change. Not sure how much extra preload I can get of of extending the rod more and more out.. not ideal. Forge one with yellow should give me the range I want and be consistent (hopefully, usually are)
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
  23. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Looking good so far Bill! one thing to remember was we mapped mine on normal unleaded that had been in the tank a while (at least a month). i need to free some pennys from the wedding fund and get down to you to see what its like know with Vpower in.
  24. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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    [May 25, 2011]
    CR deserving the name I gave them there then, 296 isn't too shabby though!

    looks like it only just reaches peak power before running out of revs too
  25. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Bill -- actuator behavior is impacted by two specs: its crack pressure and the rod lift necessary to achieve that given preload. So for example, you can have two differently configured actuators which are set to a 10psi crack pressure. One needs a rod lift of 2mm. The other requires a rod lift of 8mm. That amount of rod lift will indicate how well the two actuators can maintain boost. Simply put, your actuator might need a stiffer spring.
  26. badger5
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    [May 25, 2011]
    100% agree doug
    forge actuator req'd on this one so i can get it now and get on with it.
    this actuator no matter how much preload is not going to get what I want.
    just tried an mbc on it... increased initial boost but it wont hold... gate opening I think.

    now going to let it cool down & back onto it later
  27. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Hmmm

    You know, we're having a similar experience with our prototype as well. The turbo is not holding boost as it did when running the stock S3 manifold. We're still investigating, but if you're seeing the same thing then I'm a bit more confused.

    EGTs are down, so we know the manifold flows well. So my current stab at a solution jives with yours: we need a bigger spring.
  28. badger5
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    [May 25, 2011]
    we will continue to compare notes/logs doug.
    egt's 830'c on runs from last night. I dont remember the ones just now - not had time to review them. they will surely rise when it runs more boost
    got another hybrid k04 car here also, an LCR which is running a jbs mani, so more comparison will be possible
    speak soon
    regards
    bill
  29. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [May 25, 2011]
    will be good to compare as im interested in the JBS one if it ever comes out
  30. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [May 25, 2011]
    This guys car was first in the queue.....

    [​IMG]

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  31. badger5
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    [May 25, 2011]
    Fitting forge actuator tonight with yellow spring.
  32. badger5
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    [May 26, 2011]
    ok, last night was aborted.. Actuator I had collected had been built with 1/4" rod, not 6mm, so it would'nt fit thru the turbos wastegate actuator arm. got it replaced this morning, and will try again. 14psi crack pressure on bench, no preload currently. (yellow spring)

    onwards
  33. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [May 26, 2011]
    What a palava Bill. Bet you'll be happy to see the back of that silver S3 ;)
  34. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 26, 2011]
    :lmfao:
  35. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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    [May 26, 2011]
    He'll be happy to see the back of it and ill be happy to see the front of it :)

    Nice one Bill, The car will probably stop wanting to be flashed next... lol
  36. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [May 26, 2011]
    Good going thus far and more to come - it wouldn't be an S3 without the problems mate, take heart in that fact... :thumbsup:
  37. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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    [May 26, 2011]
    I've decided the whole experience is rather like being dumped, but knowing that in two weeks time you get to bone Katy Perry, but in the meanwhile you have to spend time with a really ugly, slow girl... Sad to begin with and drags on a bit but you know it's going to get really good really soon!
  38. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 26, 2011]
    Never have words been so comforting :kiss:
  39. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    [May 26, 2011]

    No progress here either. The boost has been listless and unremarkable. I'd hoped the MBC was to blame, or perhaps the actuator preload. But last night we took the extreme step of disconnecting the actuator from vacuum and completely locking down the wastegate flap. (Do not try this yourself -- dangerous experiment). Despite these measures, the boost stubbornly would not cooperate. What's more, EGTs at the manifold are still very cool.

    Our tester suggested a discreet leak at the head flange might be our culprit. Thinking he's probably right, we're pulling it for an inspection. :think:
  40. badger5
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    [May 26, 2011]
    you have pm doug.

    egt's thus far are low, but its not running high boost as yet.. despite asking it nicely (and now not so nicely)

    Forge actuator on there.. starts to open at 14psi on the car
    run it with n75 electrically off - 7.5psi boost - wtf?!?!

    n75 on and 1 whole 1bar of boost (just)
    Code:
    Group A:	'020				Group B:	'112		Group C:	'115			
    	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		Temperature	Load		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
    TIME					TIME			TIME				
    STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	°C	 %	STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
    
    22.6	0	0	0	0	22.99	455	0	23.39	1640	76.7	1700	1060
    23.81	0	0	0	0	24.19	460	0	24.61	1680	82	1720	1110
    25.02	0	0	0	0	25.4	480	0	25.81	2200	91.7	2000	1210
    26.22	0	0	0	0	26.62	495	0	27	2720	108.3	2030	1400
    27.32	0	0	0	0	27.73	530	0	28.14	3360	152.6	2010	1880
    28.52	0	0	0	3	28.91	570	0	29.32	4440	167.7	2210	2030
    29.73	0	0	0	3	30.15	645	0	30.52	5440	178.2	2500	2070
    30.84	0	0	0	3	31.25	690	0	31.65	6120	175.9	2550	2050
    32.04	0	0	0	3	32.47	740	0	32.86	6680	160.9	2550	2030
    33.27	0	0	0	2.3	33.68	770	0	34.07	7000	154.1	2550	2010
    34.49	0	0	3	1.5	34.87	790	0	35.28	7200	154.9	2550	1970
    

    this is turning into a right puzzle - allowing it to cool off before approaching it again.. again..
    Last edited: May 26, 2011

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