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Dam this car

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by A4_MO, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. A4_MO
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    A4_MO Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    This might be the worst engine i have ever owned since passing my test back in 2000.

    My A4 PD170 S-Line had a few things wrong with it. Went to Audi said my injectors were on recall and that was the problem.
    Fine car went in car came out and all was hunky dory. Now for the last couple of weeks its been juddering takes some turning over to get it started and now the coil light came on and had a little flash at me

    What do you want from me god dam it
    #1
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  3. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Mines gone terrible at starting ever since the injectors were done - had it back to them but they don't want to know
    #2
  4. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    In my opinion, especially considering what they cost new, these cars have far too many issues.
    #3
  5. Molnboman
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    Molnboman Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    I am really to sorry to hear your problems with your engine. I had my fair share of diesel issue with other brands so my fingers are still badly burned from my days with oil burners....I have heard the PD engines were a bit of a handful and clearly you are gettig a bit of that. Keep your chin up it Matey!

    Cheers
    A
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  6. Rheady
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    Rheady Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    A freind in work had his injectors changed FOC on his A3 170. Then had it back and it was still running rough. They eventually had to replace his engine with a brand new one. Don't know what they had done. He had to wait about a month to have the car back but he's got a new engine and is now very happy. Audi picked up the all the total costs.
    #5
  7. A4_MO
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    A4_MO Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    Right got I hooked up to computer and the code was 000665 hate fault finding
    #6
  8. Dougie'76
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    Dougie'76 Member

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    [Aug 17, 2012]
    This thread worries me! :sadlike:

    I've just recently brought one of these (this is actually my first post here too!) after parting with an LCR I had for many years and although I knew they had some issues, especially surrounding the injectors (which have already been sorted on the one I've just got via the Audi recall before I purchased it thankfully!), I didn't think there was anything too major......but I'm guessing I'm wrong?
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  9. NHN
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    [Aug 18, 2012]
    16683/P0299/000665 - Ross-Tech Wiki

    Loads of people are having issues with new injectors on the recall, this needs to be addressed by vag & vosa now as its getting serious with untold people having same problems, I'm tbh shocked audi arent stopping these recalls until they find out what the problems are & why arent vosa doing anything about it.
    #8
  10. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 18, 2012]
    im not takeing mine in for the recall
    not a chance
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  11. NHN
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    [Aug 18, 2012]
    Amen, this is a perfect example of when not to do recalls, I remember when I did a recall on my S3 8L years ago, the tracking arms were susceptible to snap apparently, subsequently went over a sleeping policeman at some ridiculously slow speed, it snapped, this was with a recall unit on aswell not originals which peed me of no end as they were supposed to be stronger, hence fitted with a complete set of new oem arms of ebay, didnt cause issue afterwards, probably was new set of originals lol.

    But, bugger thing was it also crushed the bearing cage inside the rear drive unit drivers side, so this also had to be swapped out, arrgghhh, what a mess.
    #10
  12. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Aug 18, 2012]

    The 2.0tdi engines in the A4 B7 models and the A6 from the 2005-2008 era are real dogs, what with the injector issues and the ever failing oil pump and balance shaft issues I wish I had never ever bought one. If you really want to get depressive how about buying one with an automatic box, how bad would that have been .........................
    #11
  13. rowdyboy
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    rowdyboy Member

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    [Aug 18, 2012]
    From what I gather, this is when they tried to get into the company car market. Maybe standards and quality slipped a bit in order to reduce cost ????
    #12
  14. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [Aug 18, 2012]
    I had exactly the same thing, seems increasingly common - mostly when accelerating very slightly especially in 6th gear or under load.
    #13
  15. Molnboman
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    Molnboman Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2012]
    Taken fro the Honest John website:

    Early 2.0TDIs PD 140s and PD 170s with balancer shafts have a chain drive to the oil pump and the chain drive can eventually snap. Later cars have a hexagonal shaft positive drive to the oil pump that is also a problem. Failed oil pump drives totally wreck the engines and if the car has not been 100% Audi maintained, Audi will not pay.
    The oil pump is driven from a balancer shaft via a short hexagonal shaft. The peaks of this hexagonal shaft locate in six corresponding but minute grooves machined within the otherwise circular-bored oil pump drive shaft. Thus, the oil pump drive relies entirely on an interference fit of little more than 0.010" along the peaks of the hexagonal shaft. After about 50,000 miles, the shaft can round off, resulting in a totally destroyed engine and turbo, plus a bill of up to £9,000.
    If the danger is known and the oil pump is removed by the garage in good time, a new replacement pump will cost over £500, plus the labour etc to remove and refit it. However, it is also possible to save the old pump and modify the drive at a fraction of the cost of a new one. Many local machine shops already have numbers of these pumps in for such rectification, the drive shaft of each having been on the point of rounding off.
    The non balancer shaft BKD, AZV and BMN 2.0 engines (which found their way into the 2.0 PD Octavia, A3, Golf, and various SEATs) used a chain driven oil pump very similar, but not identical, to the old 1.9 130hp PD engine. This never seems to give any problems. It's the balancer shafts that cause the problems on the 'posher' VAG 2.0 PD diesels eg Passat, A4, Superb.

    This 2.0 PD differs from the 1.9 in having twin Lanchester balancing shafts which contra-rotate at 2x crank speed. The first engines used a chain drive which was a complete disaster and the later engines a gear drive. All 2.0 PD got the geared drive towards the end of 2005.

    The problem with the 2.0 PD engine is the drive from the slave balancer shaft to the oil pump, which is a piece of 6 AF hex bar which has inadequate engagement depth with the grooves in the slave shaft. It's the torsional oscillations caused by the balance shafts which destroy the oil pump coupling (the 6mm AF bit of hex) and the chain drive to the balancer shafts before the gear driven systems came out, though these still give problems with the hex key rounding.

    The problem is with lack of concentricity of the drive socket into which the drive rod/hex fits. Chacking shows that all the drive sockets in the failed units were off centre by at least 0.1mm. All the replacement balancer units were dead centre and have not led to a repeat failure. Some replacement balancer units have now done 100k+ miles.

    You will get this problem at some point if you have a 2.0TDi WITH balancer shafts. If your 2.0TDi does NOT have balancer shafts, you will be ok. If you fit the lastest balancer shaft/ pump assembley from VAG it will more than likely cure the problem for life as they have made the hex longer and centered it all properley.

    CR engines are safe. Anything before that..Audi/VAG wont say exactly when they started to fit the units that actualy work properly.
    A typical scenario: "A4 Avant, 08 plate, currently with approx 78k miles on clock. Oil pressure light began flashing, drove on to Audi garage. They have so far spent 4.5hrs labour diagnosing extent of problem, as follows: "found gear drive into balance shaft rounded, requires replacement balance shaft unit, sump, turbo, sealant and gears." Audi has offered 70% factory contribution on parts, as a gesture of goodwill. I have asked for a contribution towards labour costs (another 8+ hrs), but Audi dealership is not budging."
    In Avants, wear occurs in the rear suspension bushing leading to uneven tyre wear by around 3 years old.
    Increasingly common for the strainer between the sump oil and the oil bump to become blocked with coagulated oil, leading to oil starvation, lack of oil pressure and the need for a new engine.
    14-3-2011: 3.0TDI V6 quattros prone to water pump failure and also prone to losing coolant from the water cooled EGR valve.
    Guide to cleaning out drains here: A4/Passat scuttle drains
    18-2-2011: Spate of Multitronic ECU failures reported on 2002 - 2007 cars.
    26-3-2011: A lot of complaints of heavy oil consumption of the 2.0TFSI, typically 1,000 miles a litre.
    17-8-2011: A4 2,0TDI BLB engine oil pump issue thread: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/general-automotive-chat/86907-vag-faulty-blb-engine-thread.html
    1-5-2012: Problems with 2007, 40k mile A4 2.0TDI 170 quattro since purchase have been new steering rack under warranty, new turbo under warranty, January 2012 recall to replace injectors and now oil in the coolant.


    [h=2]Recalls[/h]December 2005: Dealer TSB to replace current 6 pack clutch of 2.5V6TDI Multitronic with a new revised 7 part clutch as there is a known problem with the Multitronic being unable to cope with the torque of the 2.5tdi. July 2008: TDIs with BRE engine code recalled for modified EGR valves and oil coolers to be fitted.
    31-12-2011: Apparently, all VAG models with the 2.0TDI engine from around 2005 fitted with Siemens peizo injectors are subject to a recall which involves replacing all the injectors FOC. Job takes around 3 hours. A short circuit within the injectors causes the fuel system to shut down and engine cuts out.
    28-1-2012: Manufacturer recall to replace Siemens Piezoelectric injectors of 2006 - 2009 2.0 TDI BMN engines. All the injectors from the the 2.0 TDI PD engines that use piezoelectric Siemens injectors and Siemens ECUs are affected by this problem. The most problems are on the Passat BKD 2.0 TDI 140HP. No problem from 2009 and the introduction of the common rail 2.0 TDI engine (CEGA).
    #14
  16. Cribbon
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    Cribbon Member

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    [Aug 19, 2012]
    since having my recal on my injectors my car had been driving ok but starting isnt the best, how ever it going into audi monday as coil light comes on and cuts all power going into limp mode. also when idling runs lumppy at times and you can see the needle pulsing, cars going into audi on monday to hopefully be fixed, will update once i get it back!
    #15
  17. A4_MO
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    A4_MO Member

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    [Aug 19, 2012]
    That's what mine has been doing. Be nice to see what they say
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  18. A4_MO
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    A4_MO Member

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    [Aug 20, 2012]
    Right my mate at VW has had a look for me and and told me just before there computers went down that code 00665 po299 is transfer resistance in the engine wiring loom. He said that it may need a new harness from the ECU to the turbo pressure unit?? thats why its under boosting (pressure) and going into limp mode but wants to do some test first. I think i have read about this some where on here someone changing a wire or loom going to or on the turbo actuator.
    If this is the case he said go to Audi and ask if they will change it AS GOOD WILL .
    As it comes up on some system of there's showing that they are doing a lot of these and then gets sent to VW Uk .So if they get a certain amount of these jobs it gets raised as a recall
    #17
  19. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [Aug 20, 2012]
    Best of luck but in my experience they don't want to know. As you may know we had to get vosa involved before they would even admit there was a problem with the injectors.
    #18
  20. eddscott
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    eddscott Member

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    [Aug 20, 2012]
    Had the injectors done on mine and it has not had any problems - with the injectors.

    My problem is it goes through the header tank of coolant in about a month. This is a 170 with DPF, EGR and EGR cooler removed.

    Cannot get to the bottom of where its going.
    #19
  21. Originalgeezer
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    Originalgeezer Member

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    [Aug 20, 2012]
    Had my injectors replaced, now I getting the DPF light coming on! has regenerated but as I type the poxy light is back on again. Most of my 90 mile round trip to work is motorway........

    Spoke to Audi Customer Services this morning and they said if it comes on again to take it back to the dealer. As I have flagged an issue with them, they will take this into account.....but I couldnt get them to admit or offer anything - so as it is back on, it may have to go to the Dealer and see what they say.
    #20
  22. Cribbon
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    Cribbon Member

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    [Aug 20, 2012]
    just a little update of me, when the car is stationary and the needle start pulsing it the car doing a regen on the dpf to keep it clear!
    #21
  23. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    Hi mate - is that what Audi have said to you ?
    #22
  24. jon-easy
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    jon-easy New Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    My 170 PD has been the same since Audi replaced the injectors - low boost issue and occasionally limp mode (which clears if you turn the engine off and then back on). I don't really trust Sheffield Audi so I have been in and out of JBS in Chesterfield where they know a thing or 2 about diesels. JBS have blanked my EGR off and the engine has been much better behaved - no lumpy idle or boost issues - but I do occasionally get limp mode.

    The VCDS error codes are now related to EGR 'missing', so JBS are replacing my blanked EGR with a gasket which, apparently, will stop the EGR from having a negative effect, but still lets the ECU know that the EGR is there.

    Not 100% sure how this will all work out, but fingers crossed.
    #23
  25. Oddie
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    Oddie Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    Jon, how did JBS blank your EGR exactly ? Did they use 1 or 2 blanking plates ? And where did they fit them to exactly

    Cheers
    #24
  26. jon-easy
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    jon-easy New Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    Hi Oddie
    I am not totally sure. They originally replaced the throttle body which had a crack which was causing a leak. Car was fine for a few miles after that but then I had limp mode again. Next step was to remove and clean the EGR but apparently that didn't improve things much, so they blanked the EGR using a plate that they 'manufactured'. I will be speaking to them again this week when the new gasket arrives, so I will ask and get back to you.
    Jonny
    #25
  27. Oddie
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    Oddie Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    Thanks Jonny. I am thinking about deleting my EGR but just can't find a definitive answer on where the blanking plates go and how many i need
    #26
  28. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    I was talking to a bloke this morning who'd had his skoda remapped to ignore the egr, says it runs like a dream

    Didn't need any blanking plates just had software altered to ignore egr.
    #27
  29. jon-easy
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    jon-easy New Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    That's what JBS have recommended but they want 800 odd quid to perform a DPF delete and re-map as well. Their chap says that the EGR still gets blanked off in this instance, but the re-map tells the ECU to ignore it.
    #28
  30. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    JBS wont do an egr etc delete map without a full remap from them anyway, which I find litle ridiculous, iirc TRD in west country do egr delete map on its own for much less & you'd still need the blanking to stop the gases from coming through, which is the whole point.
    #29
  31. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [Aug 21, 2012]
    #30
  32. JBS Sales
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    JBS Sales Member

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    [Aug 24, 2012]
    Having only just come across this thread I can confirm that the injector recall is presenting possibly more issues than it is solving.

    We here at JBS have seen no end of vehicles come in to us after replacement of the injectors all showing the following symptoms :

    Poor startup
    Idle issues
    Stuttering/hesitation when accelerating
    Blue smoking from exhaust

    All of these seem to be related in one way or another and a few of the vehicles have had less issues when either blanking the EGR off completely or putting in the small hole EGR gasket which restricts the flow but allows the EGR to register the flow.

    The DPF removal software can be written with the EGR removal in it if required but only if the EGR is blanked at the same time.

    If you need any more info on either the DPF removal or EGR removal then drop an email to office@jbs.co.uk
    #31
  33. Cribbon
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    Cribbon Member

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    [Aug 27, 2012]
    so coming back from audi and telling them to do one! they have said it is my tandem pump failing which is contaminating the fuel, i have read up on this and it seems that this happens alot, but wouldnt surprise me if the injectors are causing half the problems, audi wanted £790 to replace the part, so said hell no mand getting my mates whos a mechanice and has worked for audi is doing it for £300 if required after some investigation he going to do!
    #32
  34. tubby
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    tubby Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    Here the same see my post at top I've changed almolst everything since the injectors done only had the car two weeks before it was recalled two and a half yrs later still at a loss
    #33
  35. dpaz
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    dpaz Active Member

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    [Dec 29, 2013]
    Your post doesn't make sense.

    Grammar and punctuation are your friend.
    #34
  36. Molnboman
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    Molnboman Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 29, 2013]
    Let us know how you get on when this work has been done. Heartbreaking to hear some of the grief diesel owners have had, and totally not what I expect from a German car manufacturer. I am still not convinced that my next car, no matter what brand it will be, will be of the diesel engined variety. I know it's no consolation but Toyota and GM has just as many issues with their modern diesel engine designs too. Toyota have managed to keep the lid on the truth that their diesel engines in their Rav4's are total sh#t and don't even get me started on the Alfa Romeo borrowed cdti engines used in all the GM brands! If you want proof go onto the UK Toyota Rav4 forums....it might just cheer you up a bit.

    BR
    A
    #35
  37. Arnie013
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    Arnie013 Member

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    [Dec 29, 2013]
    What you say is probably true however it still baffles me that Audi, who are considered a "premium brand", decided to use pump deuse! Common rail technology has been around in everyday use for cars since the mid to late 90s and was proven, so why Audi? Why?!
    #36
  38. Molnboman
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    Molnboman Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 29, 2013]
    Arnie, am no expert on the PD line or diesel Audi's for that matter but wasn't the 1.9tdi engine from early 2000's the best VAG diesel engine EVER in terms of reliability, so much so that 1.9tdi's up here change hands for 6-7k GBP in half decent nick. Why they decided change a brill' engine for the PD is beyond me too Matey. Maybe, another forum member may be able to explain that one....Maybe I have the timeline or models mixed up, but the PD's certainly didn't do Audi any favours.
    #37
  39. B5NUT
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    B5NUT Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 29, 2013]
    Agreed I've got an early 1.9PD and it's almost done 300K and still going strong, only problem I've had with with the engine block was the head gasket, which was a simple enough job. When the head was off the cylinders were checked and were in perfect condition with very little wear, cams are also in perfect condition. Shame Audi cut corners on the 2.0TDi block, you have to wonder how they got it so wrong.
    #38
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  40. lynallbel
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    lynallbel Active Member

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    [Dec 29, 2013]
    Only thing bad I have seen with the pd engine was a guy at work who thrashed it from cold and never changed the oil, which then wore the cams out!
    In my simple mechs mind any engine that cant make at least 100k without major work is a piece of **** full stop.
    #39
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  41. Arnie013
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    Arnie013 Member

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    [Dec 29, 2013]
    Yeah I agree the 1.9 is brilliant. My cousin had a 1.9 b5 avant and when he sold it it had 174k on the clock and the only major work it really had done was belts, starter motor and compressor for air con. Why change so much about it when making the 2.0? I'd love to know why they couldn't keep the basic engine the same and just increase the stroke or bore and modernise a few bits. Not one of Audis finest moments.
    #40

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