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CR K04 Stage 4 Hybrid, comparison to k04

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by badger5, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. AudiS3-Turbo
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    AudiS3-Turbo Member

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    ok thanks...
  2. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Active Member

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    Would you be intrested in dynoing my car bill?
    Once i know pump and maf are fine that is
  3. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    comparison, k04 std on revo compared to cr k04 hybrid, on my rollers
    [​IMG]
  4. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    Do you think their is more torque to be had from steve's car bill?
  5. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    nope i dont think so.
    relative to a stock k04's car, its more and comes in a little later, but i was trying to not spike it and roll in the power delivery. mbc helping this.

    it would be interesting for steves car to visit another dyno and see what it measures. somewhere like awesome's dynojet, or vince @ stealth racings sunram, as i know what these read relatively.

    the torque measured is within 10lbft of the ecu's internal torque monitor.
    wellys s3 airflow logs 255bhp worth which is within 3-4bhp of what it made..
    several things do seem to correlate

    learning this all the time. luvin me dyno tho.. hehe
  6. vetch
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    vetch S3

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    I really like that sort of power delivery. Similar to an NA car coming on cam around 4krpm.
  7. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    I think im going to hold out on more dyno's till i get the funds for WMI
  8. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    Haha bet you are.

    How come the figure is around the 250 mark, arnt alot of cars with these engine's and stage 2 map's running a "supposedly" 280 to 300 lbft of torque, or are they just signature figures they wish they were etc?
  9. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    That was the one thing that got me but hey im happy with how mine is. For know lol
  10. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    While not a direct comparison to 1.8t's this post may well give you the answer you are looking for ;P
    http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=187418&page=14#270

    <tuffty/>
  11. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    some relative std car comparisons on my dyno... give an indication on how it reads etc
    std cars so far:
    porsche boxter s 3.2- 240bhp/198lbft vs book 250bhp/220lbft
    std LCR 225 - 223-230bhp/198lbft vs book 225bhp/207lbft
    polo 1.2 - 73bhp/84lbft vs book 70ps(69bhp)/84lbft
    arosa 1.4tdi - 81bhp/149lbft vs book 75bhp/145lbft
    std 16v mk2 golf - 133bhp/106lbft vs book 139bhp/124lbft
  12. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    not sure, maybe this dyno, but std cars make std figures.... maybe a lot of other dynos read things differently, as loads vary between them, which changes things quite a lot in delivery terms

    the learning continues
  13. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    i have dyno print out of mine from AMD with about 270 bhp and 312 lb/ft (happy rollers i guess) on stage2, so if your running less torque even though i doubt im getting them sort of torque figures id imagen there still higher then the hybrid?? so do you really need rods if im pushing them harder atm any way?? or is it the fact hybrid sustains torque more?

    im interested in hybrid have been for several years so very tempted in this setup
  14. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    I think its more a peace of mind thing more than anything and being as i was one of the first we weren't sure how it would turn out and i just wasnt willing to take the risk
  15. Chlippo
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    Chlippo Member

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    for long time i thought that its gonna have more torque than bhp...makes me rethink about my setup
  16. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    There appears to be more incidents of 1.8t's with mileage on them throwing rods... there was a recent post of a member with an APY engined S3 with a big hole in the block... this looks likely to be happening more and more on S3's mapped or not as they get older... rods are a prerequisite for any turbo change/engine build in my opinion...

    <tuffty/>
  17. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    so basically hybrid turbo and putting rods in maywell save my engine from blowing as it is now.......... good excuse to tell the missus
  18. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    works for me :)

    <tuffty/>
  19. Sandip
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    Sandip Well-Known Member

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    Good point Paul, you've chucked a spanner in my works lol What kind of mileage would you say the rods turn into kitkats? Would a well looked aftered S3 suffer the same issues, regular service intervals etc
  20. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Yep its all peace of mind! id rather not spend the money on the turbo to have the rod come out of the side of the block
  21. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Bit of a lottery tbh but anything over 100k would be a worry...
    Welly had his go on just a stage 1 mapped car and more recently there is this guy's..
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?101426-My-S3-is-DEAD!!!!

    S3's will potentially suffer more than A3's as they run more power and torque as std... remapped A3's will run higher torque of course but then so do remapped S3's... all going to stress an engine built around an engine that normally runs 150bhp and substantially less torque...

    19mm pinned rods are even weedier than 20mm ones...

    <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/>
  22. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    now im worried especially as wellys was/is APY too.... its going to cost as much to do the engine less turbo if the rods fail so could actually work out cheaper with the hybrid and rods before the engine goes bang. im coming upto 90k too
  23. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    rods are strongly advised..
    what none of us know currently, given the dyno is new to me, is how the torque I am seeing on mine compares to others... It looks lower, but steve's car is rapid, and no way would I chance a >100k engine on more power without rods. these engines are loosing rods on basic stage 1 and std form in their older years now. not new cars anymore.
  24. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    And the repairs after this happening aren't cheap. I had to replace the block as well, total bill came in at £1400 and I did all the work myself. Ouch.
  25. Felixo
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    Felixo The Sarcastic one

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    Welly, where did you get the replacement block from? I'm looking for a replacement for my broken AMK and it's just that I haven't decided yet will I get someone to build me a stronger engine and go BT or just upgrade what's required in the replacement unit and go K04 hybrid since it already has an AmD stage 2 remap.

    My thread: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?101358-New-engine-required-Haldex-coupling
  26. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    £1400, thats nuts and you did the work yourself. How come so much

    Nathan
  27. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    I would'nt presume your stage 2 map will be appropriate to a hybrid.. It most likely wont, as they do behave quite differently. speedysteve's motor which ran 1.2bar boost on its stock k04, wanted to go over 2bar on the hybrid and dropped immediately into limp mode.

    stage 3 mapping was required for his
  28. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    I used an AGU engine as it was a LOT cheaper to source. The engine only cost me £400 plus delivery complete. Got it from some dodgy geezer on the bay. I wasn't too fussed about mileage as it was coming apart anyway.

    The AGU has the same pistons, and the same forged crank as the APY. If you've got an AMK you could do the same, but you would have to use your own head, or re-build the VVT system into the AGU head - if that can in fact be done.... Which I believe it can.

    Forged rods £300, a complete new engine as the block had to be replaced £450, Uprated shells £50, New timing chain tensioner £130, parts to reassemble, oil, head work, etc, etc. It all adds up really fast....
  29. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes it can... straight swap for the non VVT tensioner... which brings me on too...

    ..not if its VVT... VVT tensioner as £300+ IIRC but as per the previous answer, if your AMK one is serviceable then use that..

    <tuffty/>
  30. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Wowsers..... Bend over at the Audi Parts Desk....
  31. Felixo
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    Felixo The Sarcastic one

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    See chaps the main problem I have here (in ROI) is that there's absolutely fuckall decent garages or specialists in such work. I already went through one well advertised dealership which is now (about a year later) absolutely shut dead and one wannabe specialist of whom now I need to start practicing meditation because I'm having very vivid visions of his house burning down. The guys I went to now are dealing with all kinds or performance VAGS and AMG's on a daily basis and at least on that level I'm confident they know what they're doing. However, there's a massive problem with parts here and even they get most of their stuff from UK. Another thing is that they don't have the facilities to fabricate/manufacture stuff that's why I'm looking to outsource this bit of work to someone who is a jedi in the field and will have interest in this.

    Is there anyone here who would be interested in taking up such work? My engine is gone and rebuild is not an option due to the extent of work that might be required and costs therefore I want to build a stronger motor from scratch that will do 300-350 without breaking a sweat and drop it into my beautiful red shell along with the new coupling so I can finally enjoy the love of my life.

    Bill? Andy? Anyone?
  32. Chlippo
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    Chlippo Member

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    is it me or it is the leon cupra R always having better figure than the S3?
  33. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    I agree chlippo, it's weird how their figures always seem better.
  34. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    Lol I have said this in a thread before also.

    Nathan
  35. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    It's it due to there cars been newer and they are just more optomistic with their figures? haha.
  36. AWDMk1
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    AWDMk1 Member

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    I've just joined the site as I have an interest in this thread... I've recently been buying a 2001 S3 with 68k miles and what I gather is a common(ish) K04 problem in that it has a cracked exhaust housing. I was aware of this and have bought the car needing repair and had spoken to CR Turbos before stumbling upon this site. My question is, what do people think of the CR hybrid K04's? Having read the thread I am guessing they are rated quite highly but my dliemna is, my S3 has been to Jabbasport already for a custom remap, has a Jabbasport boost controller fitted, FMIC, Milltek cat back, induction kit etc. and ran a respectable 290bhp and 320lb/ft on their rollers with printouts to prove.

    Is it worth upgrading to a CR hybrid considering the numbers it has already done and bearing in mind the additional cost? I am going to need another remap and more than likely a set of 440's to go with the turbo so is this extra cost worth the power I will gain? I am assuming I will be doing well to get over 320 and to be honest, I don't really want to go more than 330/340 as I don't want to be replacing pistons & rods in what is intended to be my daily driver.... Also, the torque figures I have read in this thread seem rather low to me bearing in mind the BHP and that confuses me, I'm failing to see how that can be the case....?

    I would be keen to hear peoples thoughts on this as I need to make a decision sooner rather than later re: standard replacement K04 or hybrid..... decisions, decisions.... the car is already stripped so I just need to order the bits either way.

    As you guys have obviously been kicking about in S3's for a lot longer than me I would appreciate your thoughts one way or the other!!!

    Cheers
  37. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    Have you had the car on any other dyno's bar jabbasport's?

    Alot of people will advise rods no matter what, with the age of the car and the mileage, rods would be a wise investment, there's been a few cars of late that have gone boom due to rods giving the ghost, so i would facter in rods along with larger injectors and additional mapping!
  38. AWDMk1
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    AWDMk1 Member

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    It's a 2001 S3 with 68k miles and FSH.... I really don't want to go down the pistons and / or rods route as I have an AWD Mk1 Golf project which absorbs cash for such things, I am just unsure as to whether to put it back together as was or go K04 hybrid and remap and maybe injectors? As far as I know it has only ever been on Jabba's rollers, I'm not sure if these are renowned for being optimistic or not!?

    It should really suffice as is / was for going to work and back but I am sure you all suffer from the same disease as me and I'm thinking while it's in bits, why not....
  39. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    well hybrid = rods so get the ko4 replaced imo
  40. AWDMk1
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    AWDMk1 Member

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    Well I would perhaps agree but torque kills rods and the torque figures in this thread are comparitively low.....? Hence the confusion......

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