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CR K04 Stage 4 Hybrid, comparison to k04

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by badger5, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    well didnt really do to much on the car today washed it first thing this morning then had to go do some shopping so killed the chance to do the ducting but did get under the car and sort the exhaust rattle out so am over the moon about that just had to rotace the center pipe a bit to stop it knocking. So the list is getting smaller. Have ordered my Air filter off Bill and i like Paul's (tufftybloke's) idea of keeping the cover for the airbox but having a induction kit there so will start having a play with that this week some time
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  2. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Latest update is its ready! going down tomorrow to Bills may even be cheaky and ask him to change the aircon compressor while its there as its shot it
  3. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    I'm looking forward to these figures so god knows what you're feeling...lol
  4. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Dude im so excited im ready to wee myself its like being a kid on Christmas eve!
  5. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    What time you coming mate? I will be there from about 9:30am ish to 1:00pm ish working on my car....

    <tuffty/>
  6. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Plan is to get there for 12 mate. dude getting 4" ducting down to the bumper is a nightmare
  7. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    ..thats why I didn't bother and had it just at the headlight :)

    See you tomoz...

    <tuffty/>
  8. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Ok guys time to place your bets on the dyno lottery what will we get from this turbo? Bills plan is to start with the stock injectors but has some 440's ready along with a forge UNOS
  9. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    Is he mapping as we speak then?
  10. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    no tomorrow morning I start with the dyno + maps
    wish me luck

    be interesting outcome
  11. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    i thought you were doing it tonight? haha slacker.

    Only joking mate cant wait to find out what you get.
  12. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    Very good.

    I reckon 299.99bhp and same torque :).
  13. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    290bhp + 320ftlbs

    <tuffty/>
  14. 5teve L
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    5teve L Member

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    320bhp/310lbft
  15. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    Im feeling Tufty's answer. I think we'd all hope for that atleast.
  16. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Im feeling Paul doesnt want me to beat his last session on the rollers lol
  17. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    i would want 300 + + for that outlay.....
  18. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Nah... I think I have have found most of the missing horses now lol... I am hoping to be proved wrong with my estimate :)

    <tuffty/>
  19. Sandip
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    Sandip Well-Known Member

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    308bhp and 328lbs :)
  20. s3 Hoggy
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    s3 Hoggy Whats going on???

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    Very specific Sandip! I realy hope it's over 300
  21. Lemon S3
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    Lemon S3 Alex

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    311bhp 322lb/ft
  22. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Any news yet Bill?
  23. ems3
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    ems3 New Member

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    318bhp and 336lbs - good luck
  24. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    well, not finished, but made some progress..
    high airflows, >250g/s consistently, but these are not equating to the g/s x 1.2 factor = bhp


    i have it running at 22-23psi boost as flat as i can get it on n75 so far..
    440cc injectors were required immediately after 1st couple of runs.. 24-25ms injector duty cycle >5500rpm, stock ones dont cut it, and i dont personally subscribe to fitting 4bar fprs, which make tired old pumps work harder (and actually deliver less just when you need it most!)

    as a ref, given this dyno is new to me etc... i have run a few cars to get a feel for things, figures, strapping methods etc etc.
    3.2 boxter-s, dyno'd at 240bhp/198lbft, booked 250bhp/220lbft (30'c day however)
    lcr 225, dyno'd at 223,226,230bhp/198lbft on several runs

    my only real comparisons i have thus far.
    need a remapped 210/225 of someone local to try that on as a comparison if anyones about, local to me.


    i have an mbc to try tomorrow.. calling it a day for now, 7pm now, been a long day.
    luvin me dyno tho.. great tool :)

    more l8trs

    {edit} going to do a boost leak test tomorrow.. to eliminate leaks from the equation.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
  25. dela
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    dela Member

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    im local, but have a tear in the pipe coming form the turbo to the charge pipe, so if you can be bothered to put steves on mine for the run you're more then welcome to use it
  26. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Did you call Bill yesterday mate? I thought I still had mine kicking about but I have had a look in my bits box at home and at the unit and can't find it... I think I may have sent it with my old K04 setup when I sold it else you would have been welcome to it...

    Forge item is cheaper than the OEM...
    http://forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=010201SILH&product=FM225TH

    <tuffty/>
  27. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    boost leak checked and it leaks at 20psi :(

    bumper off next

    Ref S3 done this morning of wellys S3.. revo stage 1, max'd plus 4.5 timing, largeport head, stock k04, large fmic..
    we are 30bhp up on revo'd s3, and 40lbft up, but it has a leak..

    Relative comparison currently.. whilst I get my head round the dynos figures, airflows, logs etc

    bumper off now to fix leak(s)
  28. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    hope your be bringing it down when you come, i want a ride so i can get jelous and spend even more money on my car :keule:
  29. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    right done...

    boost leak checked first thing and it hisses at me at 20psi

    so bumper off and fix that before continuing

    As a ref I dyno'd Wellys S3 this morning, revo stage 1, max'd out, plus 4.5 degree timing.. runs huge fmic and largeport head.. 254bhp/225lbft from 20psi boost tapering down to 16psi at 6krpm

    I am some +30more bhp and +40lbft than that on Steve's currently with the boost leak...from 23psi sustained

    bumper off now.

    more l8trs


    {some time passes}




    no doubt some debate will ensue over this.. lol as always.

    yesterdays runs i got 281bhp, today after fixing the boost leak, we peaked 315bhp/250lbft, with airflows logging 275g/s or more occasionally.
    now this does'nt all add up..

    heat kicks in rapidly, and only ever get one peak reading which is the 313bhp-315bhp range, then drops to 305-308bhp, then down to 296bhp, 292bhp as it gets hotter.. A definate candidate for wanting wmi installed to my mind.

    the torque reading does look low to me, but the spool is more akin to BT, spooling 3.5k-4krpm full chat to 25psi tapering to 23psi at 7krpm

    now, caviats apply... new dyno to me, maybe i am driving it wrong.. (dont think so, but training is next saturday on it) and thus far, stock cars hav made stock power, and remapped one of wellys S3 made 254bhp, but with apparent low torque which i dont believe. same dyno same day, steve's hybrid 04 has made 60bhp more than a k04.... with huge airflows.. no scaling done to maf at all.

    i dont think the dyno is a happy dyno, it certainly is'nt being optomistic on cars i have run so far, presuming i am not being a numpty using it arse about face or owt..

    on the road, steve's s3 is rapid, and makes me very much believe the things producing 300bhp power.

    let the debate begin
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  30. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    some logs from the weekends mapping of this..


    Code:
    Sunday	18	July	2010	14:03:50:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0	Data version: 20100630							
    8N0 906 018 J		1.8L R4/5VT         0004											
    
    	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'031		Group C:	'020			
    		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
    	TIME					TIME			TIME				
    Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP			STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW
    	16.6	1760	60.9	5.44	24.47	16.91	1.016	0.992	16.29	0	0	0	0
    	17.5	2280	97	7.14	46.39	17.81	0.992	0.992	17.19	0	0	2.3	2.3
    	18.41	2760	131.6	9.18	75.61	18.71	1	0.992	18.11	0	0	2.3	2.3
    	19.31	3360	191.7	13.6	167.28	19.62	1.094	0.992	19.01	0	0	2.3	2.3
    	20.22	4400	191.7	18.36	216.39	20.53	0.875	0.875	19.92	0	0	1.5	1.5
    	21.12	5240	191.7	18.36	243.17	21.43	0.821	0.836	20.82	0	0	1.5	1.5
    	22.03	5600	191.7	18.36	255.08	22.33	0.805	0.813	21.73	0	0	0.8	0.8
    	22.93	5880	191.7	18.02	257.06	23.24	0.797	0.813	22.63	0	0	0	0
    	23.84	6080	191.7	17.68	261.06	24.14	0.789	0.813	23.54	0	0	0	0
    	24.75	6360	191.7	17	263.89	25.06	0.805	0.813	24.44	0	0	0	0
    	25.65	6640	191.7	16.32	266.31	25.95	0.805	0.813	25.36	0	0	0	0
    	26.56	7000	191.7	15.98	269.19	26.86	0.797	0.813	26.26	0	0	0	0
    	27.46	7280	178.9	15.3	270.22	27.76	0.891	0.922	27.16	0	0	0	0
    	28.37	5720	12.8	1.7	6.53	28.67	0.867	0.945	28.06	0	0	0	0
    
    Code:
    Sunday	18	July	2010	14:17:51:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0	Data version: 20100630							
    8N0 906 018 J		1.8L R4/5VT         0004											
    
    	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'112		Group C:	'118			
    		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Temperature	Load		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
    	TIME					TIME			TIME				
    Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	°C	 %	STAMP	 /min	°C	 %	 mbar
    	31.06	1880	87.2	6.8	33.89	31.37	450	0	30.77	1760	35	94.5	1060
    	31.97	2400	109	7.48	53.75	32.28	470	0	31.67	2280	33	94.5	1240
    	32.88	2920	150.4	10.54	94.89	33.18	500	0	32.57	2760	30	94.5	1520
    	33.78	3600	191.7	15.3	139.94	34.08	545	0	33.48	3320	30	70.2	2300
    	34.69	4400	191.7	16.32	196.06	34.99	620	0	34.38	4120	30	65.5	2440
    	35.59	5280	191.7	18.02	250.53	35.89	680	0	35.29	5000	30	73.3	2540
    	36.5	5800	191.7	18.7	266.72	36.8	750	0	36.2	5720	33	80	2540
    	37.41	6160	191.7	18.36	272.92	37.7	785	0	37.1	6000	36	80.4	2540
    	38.31	6400	190.2	17.68	271.75	38.62	820	0	38.01	6320	38	82.7	2540
    	39.21	6600	191.7	17.34	275.42	39.51	835	0	38.91	6520	41	87.1	2540
    	40.12	6720	191.7	17	279.11	40.42	855	0	39.82	6680	45	89.4	2540
    	41.03	7040	191.7	16.32	279.64	41.33	870	0	40.72	6920	48	90.6	2540
    	41.93	7400	191.7	15.3	281.22	42.23	890	0	41.65	7280	51	91.4	2540
    	42.83	7160	12	1.36	89.28	43.14	920	6.3	42.54	7600	55	76.9	2540
    	43.74	5600	13.5	1.7	12.64	44.04	930	0	43.44	6080	50	0	1210
    
  31. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Don't think there will be much of a debate with the info you have posted badger.
  32. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    I'm glad the lost power was found! Didn't make sense to have all that air flow and low power. But then again, that leak at 23 PSI was pretty bad to be fair.

    A little disappointed in my runs this morning, after the timing was turned up to 4.5 degrees from 2.25 it made a further 3 BHP (Wooo hooo - LOL) so the last run we had a final output of 257. Torque figure was lower than I would of liked, but as Bill and I discussed this morning, that is deffo not a happy dyno - which in my eyes is a good thing. An accurate figure is what I wanted, and as far as I'm concerned, that's what I got. It's also a good basis for future comparison for me for future mods.

    As Bill mentioned, a standard Leon Cupra R was run and made standard figures both BHP and Torque, so that would indicate to me that it is likely to be correct. However, both my torque and Steve's appear to be a little less than expected which seems odd.

    280 g/s is an impressive figure by anyone's standards, and shows that the K04 hybrid is well worth the money involved. I am seriously thinking about investing in one now to be honest, although have some more to do to the K04 setup beforehand. I want to wind as much as possible out of a stock motor before moving on to a hybrid, and also install all the bits required (i.e. still need a downpipe and sports cat!) for the hybrid before installing it.

    I have a feeling that my turbo is beginning to be 'tired', so waiting for the old blower to go bang before installing a new one....

    Top job on this one Bill, with good write ups, so thankyou. This will be a useful post for many moons yet to come!
  33. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Wicked one steve, nice work Bill as always, if i didn't have a "proper" 4wd you could have mapped my hybrid for me.
  34. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    hehe damn those proper quattros eh!

    I would have been running mine on there at every opportunity else.. lol
  35. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    To say im happy is an under statement i have one of the biggest smiles on my faces i have had in years. The car feels amazing and i had a nightmare driving home having to stay slow so i didnt loose the GF in her little corsa although after getting home i took her out in it and know she wants a turbo'd car so maybe an Ibiza will be on the cards.
  36. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    They do a nice hybrid K03 for those ;P

    <tuffty/>
  37. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    I know i think i would leave it standard for a while for her to get used to having more power than a hair drier
  38. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    Good power figures. Interested to see what the torque should be. Bound to be more than recorded.
  39. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    as an aside and slight comparison, a vf34 ihi on 1.2-1.4bar will do 320-330bhp and 280lbft, not massive torque monstors.
    maybe this hybrid is more akin to a vf34 than it is to a k04 with its new internals.. upsized etc..
    i dunno.. purely speculating

    engine ecu's internal torque monitor on block 122 showed torque within 10lbft of what it did on the dyno

    hmmmm
  40. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Thats good to know

    My 2.1 will help with my torque

    If i hit 320bhp i will be very happy

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