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CR K04 Stage 4 Hybrid, comparison to k04

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by badger5, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    Hi
    there's a lot of interest in these k04 hybrids.. so to help people visualise whats being talked about I have taken some time to take pictures of on install going on for speedy_steve's S3 which is with me for this upgrade

    First of all comparison side by side showing different compressor wheels.. k04 vs billet k06 wheel
    [​IMG]
    k04's std comp wheel
    [​IMG]
    Hybrids billet k06 comp wheel
    [​IMG]

    hot sides comparison
    [​IMG]
    turbine size comparison, rs6 wheel vs k04 wheel
    [​IMG]

    std k04 turbine wheel
    [​IMG]

    hybrids larger turbine wheel (RS6)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Mocked up with PiperWerx 3" downpipe on engine and stock manifold
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Essential mods imho are going to include rods, downpipe, fmic, intake to support what this thing is potentially capable of.
    Steve's gone for rods which we have fitted (IE rods), FMIC will be required, and mapping to suit to realise its potential.

    more when we have buttoned it back together and test driven it and logged what it does
    watch this space folks
    regards
    bill
    #1
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  3. Lemon S3
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    Lemon S3 Alex

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    Looks good Bill, excellent stuff. Look forward to the results.
    Do you know the complete spec of the hybrid turbo?
    #2
  4. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    this is what CR have said in respect comparisons to Turbo Dynamics units

    the one pictured is the stage 4

    and for TD's specs and claims - see below reference
    My personal opinion is the power figures claimed by TD are unrealistic, so we will have to see..
    A high flow mani such as JBS are shortly making available should make a nice contribution to increased flow.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2010
    #3
  5. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    Interesting

    What happens if you just go for a big turbo without the other mods (fmic)
    #4
  6. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    Realistically bill what do you think bhp and torque will be without a high flow manifold like jbs etc?
    #5
  7. Lemon S3
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    Lemon S3 Alex

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    Bill, are those prices from TD for new units or rebuild and are they up to date? As I've got a spec n price list from them showing stage 1 £935, stage 2 £975, stage 3 £1125, stage 4 £1295 for new units.
    #6
  8. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    Would be a waste of time tbh....

    Stage 1 remaps already make the IAT's too high for the std SMIC's to cope with...

    <tuffty/>
    #7
  9. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    My stage 4 ( so im told it was ) cost me £1100 including vat and postage to a garage i use.
    It was a full new unit, not a recon
    #8
  10. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    The turbo Bill is showing is the original turbo from my car (112000 miles) and no cracks, reconditioned by CR with the extra bits. I cant wait to see more on this it is very exciting.
    #9
  11. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    Gonna need a FMIC and a decent map to realise its full potential though Steve....

    Until then, you could change your forum name to 'Potentially Speedy Steve' LOL

    <tuffty/>
    #10
  12. dela
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    dela Member

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    how much are the IE rods bill?
    #11
  13. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    I think bill said £320 inc vat in another thread?
    I have these rods in my engine too.
    #12
  14. Morgan-VAGCHECK
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    Morgan-VAGCHECK Foot to the floor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    Hi,

    I am currently testing one of the CR K04 hybrids on my own TT, & so far it is looking quite promising.

    Bill what is the crack pressure set at on the hybrid you have there 1.0bar ?

    This is the spec they sent to me.

    Modified compressor housing inlet.
    C.N.C re-profiled compressor cover for high flow compressor.
    K06 billet aluminum lightweight compressor wheel.
    Modified seal plate.
    360 degree Large Pad uprated thrust bearing.
    Left hand thread turbine wheel with cut back turbine blades.
    Lightening of turbine wheel.
    Modified turbine housing.
    Uprated Step-Gap turbine seals.
    Uprated 1 bar actuator.
    Other blueprinting modifications.
    Max recommended boost pressure peak at 27 drop to 23-24PSI

    Regards
    Morgan
    #13
  15. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    i dont know.. i just copied/paste of whoever else posted them on here last week
    #14
  16. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    we will have to see.. i wont predict it
    #15
  17. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    between £299-£320 depending on exchange rates at time.. inc vat
    regards
    bill
    #16
  18. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    not 1 bar
    that is spike tastic in my experience of hybrids, and very unfriendly to mapping
    i have spec'd this one less to CR when they built it up

    regards
    bill
    #17
  19. paulypaul
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    paulypaul S3 all the way Baby

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    Look forward to the results of this one guys,I have just sent my turbo off to CR for HYBRIDIZING.
    #18
  20. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    Bill, you want me to stick this with all this juicey information enclosed?
    #19
  21. Morgan-VAGCHECK
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    Morgan-VAGCHECK Foot to the floor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    Hi,

    Cant say we are experiencing any actual issues in controlling boost spike, but yes a 1bar actuator can make it a little more tricky.

    The reason I asked was I could see your actuator is different to what was supplied with mine :)

    Regards
    Morgan
    #20
  22. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    could do mate, its a resource so the popyular question of hybrid can have some actual info for whats available etc
    #21
  23. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    on k03/4 hybrids i have done the stiffer actuator has'nt help the control, so i am reluctant to do so on this. we checked a std k04 opening crack pressure earlier and it starts to open just before 5psi, where this new one is near double that.. so i hope its soft enough to make control nice and smooth (unknown map in the car, not my mapping at this time) but enough static pressure so it keeps the thing shut if hotside backpressure becomes an issue

    what boost and airflow readings are you seeing with yours?
    stock bottom end in it ?
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2010
    #22
  24. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    some install pictures of it in place with the now wrapped PipeWerx 3" downpipe
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    116k mile engine.. next to no lip in the bore and factory hone marks still very apparent..
    just cleaned up pistons and refit them as they came out. (its not an endless budget)

    getting there...
    #23
  25. Lemon S3
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    Lemon S3 Alex

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    Looks good Bill, do you not recommend to change the piston rings or have you already?
    #24
  26. Morgan-VAGCHECK
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    Morgan-VAGCHECK Foot to the floor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    Hi Bill,

    I know exactly where you are coming from in regards the actuator, & yes it does make smooth control more fiddly when it is very stiff. To be honest I was just happy they supplied an actuator that didn&#8217;t need a **** load of pre-load added, to get anywhere near the manufacturers suggested boost pressure like one of the popular hybrids we have seen do.

    I am currently correcting a few weak points that have appeared before we can finish the mapping. First my fuel pump started sagging (now replaced), today bigger injectors are going in as I didn&#8217;t like the IDC with a 3bar reg.

    So far peak airflow seen ~240g/s (with boost on top not yet where we want it), but DKVS was intervening & starting to close the throttle because of the fuel issues.

    It is not a stock bottom end on mine, & I think you are certainly taking the best approach in specifying rods for your build too.

    Hopefully by Wednesday/Thursday (don&#8217;t have any free time Monday or Tuesday) I will have tested further & can post some logs, if you are interested.

    Exhaust manifold is going to be needed for sure to see full potential, & I am currently toying with just getting a tubular fabricated for now until I see results from the JBS/Ina/034 cast offerings when they are finally available.

    Cheers
    Morgan
    #25
  27. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    hehe i love all these pics of my engine in bits. Yes bill we will have to sort the map out but i will get hold of a fmic first and i will just take it easy (hum is that possible?)
    #26
  28. Morgan-VAGCHECK
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    Morgan-VAGCHECK Foot to the floor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    Hi,

    You could always just go with actuator pressure regulation (N75 disconnected) if Bill finds logged parameters are not ideal with your current mapping, this will get you by in the meantime.

    Regards
    Morgan
    #27
  29. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    it came in running fine and not smoking, so they have been left alone.. its nicely run in already.. 116k
    #28
  30. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    thanks for the info.. be interesting to compare notes. very interested in how you find yours.
    100% agree on the manifold being a factor in achieving the potential max from these.. I dont personally subscribe to fitting stiffer and stiffer actuators to keep the wastegate from being blown open... thats excessive backpressure, which as we know will go hand in glove with immence egts when pushed. a recipe for failures

    be interesting to see who comes out with a manifold first and (if) they prove reliable. the cheap k03 fitment manifolds when used all seem to crack badly.


    for speedy steve> your water pump
    [​IMG]
    #29
  31. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [Mar 28, 2010]
    As i said on the phone Bill if it needs doing do it! I dont have an endless pocket but while your working on it and its easy o do it might aswell get done!
    #30
  32. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    my ibiza also suffers the same thing.. metal impellor pumps dont break up on the impellor, but they do maybe suffer shaft seal issues instead! doh! you cant win.. dammit
    #31
  33. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Swings and roundabouts. Damned if you do, damned if you don't....

    I've only just spotted this thread guys, looks like it's coming along nicely indeed! I'm very much looking forward to seeing the logs from this upon completion. If this produces good results I may well go the same route myself.

    Based on my current issue with the K04 turbo not producing enough pressure against the large port head, 240 G/S sounds nice.... :) I'm stuck now at a measly 212 g/s. :(

    I did my front mount myself inside of £225.... It doesn't have to be an expensive job.
    #32
  34. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Have just been through Tuffty's FMIC build thread and ordered all the hoses and clamps for 104 pounds. Just waiting to hear back about the cooler
    #33
  35. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Alex AH one yea?
    #34
  36. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Yes sir AH Fabrication have not had an email back yet but if not heard anything by tomorrow will call him
    #35
  37. djarchive
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    djarchive Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Got one on mine (bought from Alex @ AH Fab)

    Absolute bob on :)
    #36
  38. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    I think I need to have a word with Alex about some commission LOL

    <tuffty/>
    #37
  39. putang
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    putang Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    I think you better i am about to put an order in for one after speaking with you.

    Superb thread badger really looking forward to how this comes together.
    #38
  40. Lemon S3
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    Lemon S3 Alex

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    [Mar 31, 2010]
    How you getting on Bill?
    Also how do you rate CR Turbos, are they reliable and up to spec as TD?
    #39
  41. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 31, 2010]
    CR are ok.. not perfect but then so few are.
    I have no personal experience of TD, but the specs look to be the same for the k04 stage 4 hybrid.. I have heard of failures of a "branded" MD421, where a comp wheel blade sheared off, but I know that branded unit was run in excess of 2bar which is beyond what TD themselves rate it to..

    If I get to map this one, I will aim to map it to a sustained 1.5bar, with a potential 1.7bar initial spool - we will see how things pan out.

    Mark is the guy at CR I talk to.. he's pretty helpfull and enthusiastic

    regards
    bill
    #40

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