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CR hybrid stage 3 turbo ....

Dan s3 audi Sep 11, 2012

  1. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    Okay i will try and get the 12psi with the n75 unplugged. If fails what actuator do you reconmend? cheers for the quick reply
     
  2. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    I've experienced about 34psi in 3rd gear from 3500rpm! Out of the chicane on the start straight at Goodwood a few weeks ago. My word did it ever take off, until I realise I'd popped a hose off and it was on the verge of self destruction!
     
  3. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    see how you get on
     
  4. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    There is always the possibility that with a stage 3 hybrid it can only make 16psi at redline!
     
  5. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    what spec is it? do we know?
    anyone?
     
  6. Hammy999

    Hammy999 Member

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    I am sure he said full stage 3 but not all the specifics. Don't CR claim their stage 3 max boost pressure is 22-24psi?
     
  7. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    I phoned up cr turbo's and just said i have a k04 and i want it to your highest spec, did not know a thing about turbo's when i orderd it only that they were the people to use.
     
  8. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    it could be a few variants....
    If their top spec I would expect it to be RS6 turbine wheel, 2283 comp wheel..... possibly clipped turbine.. possibly not..

    Would normally come with a 12psi actuator

    hotside may be bored out on wastegate also if their spec
     
  9. Rich196

    Rich196 Member

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    haha! Yeh you did!!! The look it put on your face says 34psi is the way forward ;)
     
  10. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    well a quick update, i phoned up jabba today and spoke to the guy that mapped my car. i told him i have managed to get more boost now at higher rpm. i said but there is a huge problem that from gears 2-6 between 3.5k to 4.5k rpm i am getting really bad turbo surge at around 24-27psi. He said thats because i have flow issues and need to get a new intercooler and cam set up. he also said that i should take some of the pre load off, i told him that as soon as i did that i will be loseing the boost at top end (so back to the start). i said i have looked into it and cant you just map it to run lower psi at lower rpm. he said yes that can be done, i then said will this cost me. He said it will take around three hours as they will have to set it up on live map ect. that £60 a hour plus its a 340mile round trip for me £80 in fuel. so in total £260 to get it mapped down a bit and to check the fuel and air mixture. was a little upset considering i had just spent £400 on the monday there getting it mapped, thought a little deal could have been done. I know it was not there fault that there was a problem with my car, but i am no tuner and i found the problem after some reasurch and advise on here. I was just left in the dark with a £400 map producing 262bhp, which made me feel gutted tbh. Jabba have gone down in my books now, which is a shame i have used them for the past two years. no one please shoot me down for saying that everyone is allowed their own thoughts about a place. so i will just have to run the car slowly so i dont damage the turbo till i can afford for someone like bill to map it again.
     
  11. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    Also forgot to mention the main man Brian was the person who told me to get low compression pistons for a k04 hybrid and ordered them for me. Thats why my car is running a 8.5.1 ratio
     
  12. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Its not the first time i've seen posts on here about dodgy Jabba maps tbh, so it doesnt surprise me in the slightest. They're much overrated in my view.

    Unplug the N75 if you want to tone things down a bit until you get it to someone decent like Bill or Nick.
     
  13. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Meh. They're stuck in the past as far as I'm concerned. How could they possibly have sent you away having taken your money and given you **** stage 1 power? then to try and charge you again because THEY FAILLED to notice a mechanical issue before they mapped the car?

    Such ridiculous bull would never go down at Badger5 or R-tech. if a car isn't right to map, it'll be either fixed first or turned away, not just bodged through to get the customers money.

    If you're in Bath get it booked into Badger5 ASAP. Bill is just the road from you and is THE man to sort out hardware issues, as well as being a mapping genius.

    Such a shame that someone as well known and respected as jabba would let the car go out like that.
     
  14. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    I wouldnt dwell too much on the pistons. Sure, higher CR is potentially going to give you more power, but the lower CR will give you a safer engine, and you can probably push a bit more boost to make up for the lowered CR.
     
  15. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    NO no no no no!

    that's the whole problem with CR vs boost Kev.

    With a big turbo you can just whack in a few psi of extra boost to make up for the low CR, on a hybrid you just can't to that as it pushes it too far.

    If the turbo's full potential can be utilised at 9.5:1 CR, then any reduction in CR is a reduction in overall efficiency of the setup.

    again, not saying it's the cause of the low boost, that's clearly down to mechanical problems and poor mapping, but I genuinely believe this 8.5:1 engine will make considerably less power than mine, which is otherwise near identical.
     
  16. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    I dont think there will be a "considerable" difference. A few horsepower maybe, The difference between 320 and 330hp perhaps but certainly not anything like 10%.

    It'll also allow you to run it on 95octane fuel if you so desire. Might sound **** to most of us, but some folk live in places where super unleaded simply isnt available easily.

    What it will do for sure is make the car fell less willing when driven off boost, which obviously isnt great.

    All i'm saying is that yes, its annoying, and yes, dont do it if your planning a build, but in this case its done now, so just get on with it and ignore. Its not going to make a huge difference to the figures at the end of the day, and theres bugger all to be gained from dwelling on it.
     
  17. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    suppose it give me peace of mined knowing that its running lower compression so safer for the head lol thats one plus. Yes i will contact bill in next few weeks see what he can do. get it all sorted and finished with, so then i have a toy to play with not look after all the time lol
     
  18. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Dan, I'd suggest you also phone cr turbos and find out exactly what they sold you, if you have a stage 3 then a 2283 compressor and stock clipped k04 turbine isn't going to be your friend! And possibly 16 @ redline is all you get!

    Theres a guy on the TT forum running some stage 2 combo who's making rubbish bhp as well and again it's a clipped turbine.

    Your intercoolering isn't going to help, and if your turbo could give the psi then the low comp ratio isn't an issue but if your only going to get 16psi then compared to a CR of 9.5 yours will always give less power. No amount of magic mapping is going to give the power you want if the setup ain't right.

    And as for the mapping issue from Jabba, well that's just ridiculous!
     
  19. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    you can map any car for multiple fuels.. not just low Cr... (which is old hat turbo tuning idiology imho)
    these are ME7.5 ecu's here...
     
  20. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    Does this turbo have a std K04 turbine? and clipped? Really?
    RS6 one clipped I would understand... and >16psi >6krpm is'nt a problem in my experience of them.

    what on earth spec is in this car?
     
  21. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    Okay just spoke to craig from cr turbo and exsplained the situation that the wastegate is opening at high rpm and the only way i can get better boost is by putting more pre load on the actuator. He said mine had a 10psi one on it but he is going to send me a 14psi actuator and see how i go with it. Got to say he was helpful, lets just hope this will work.
     
  22. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    wots its spec?
     
  23. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    You still need to find out exactly whats inside the turbo.

    All this "stage" nonsense really is useless.

    I see no point coupling a 2283 up with a S3 turbine, just seems pointless. Why not use the smaller and cheaper 2077 or 2080 wheels if you want to keep the small turbine?
     
  24. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    I forgot to ask them but i will phone them up tomorrow and check on what spec it is.
     
  25. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    I was going from this


    below is what CR's is in comparison to TD hybrids
    The Stage 1 (MD299) has uprated thrust and K04-024 Compwheel. (eg vauxhall Astra)
    The Stage 2 (MD212) Is the above, but also with a cutback to shaft
    The Stage 3 (MD364) Has the billett K06 wheel (the one we use) and Cutback to standard shaft
    The Stage 4 (MD421) Has the billett K06 wheel and larger shaft.
    **The stage 4 is the same spec as we are doing for you now....**



    I read stage 3 as - 2283 with cutback standard shaft.
     
  26. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    payed in total £852.00 and they said that was the highest spec, never knew there was a stage 4 so must be that one. will fined out for sure tomorrow:blush:
     
  27. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4

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    A ported WG helps the blowing open of the WG, adding a stronger springed actuator will mess your mapping up even more. Good luck with it
     
  28. Westy

    Westy Well-Known Member

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    Oh what's this I'm reading? CR turbos strikes again!

    Honestly it's beyond a joke now.
     
  29. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    All I'd say is that most builders like cr and td produced these turbos before Welly coolers, xs manifolds eyc existed or where used, it's only in the advent of all these trials and tribulations that these things triely come to light. Admitey wild claims that these things will make 340-360bhp are a bit misleading and it's only since Bill and Welly spent ages and a fortune getting it right that it made any where near what it was intended to do. Evolution has since made these hybrids, stage 1-2-3-4 a bit gimmicky especially when a stock k04 setup can make nearly 300bhp. I think they just need to look again at what they do, cut the stage 1-2-3 out of the equation and concentrate on a solid stage 4. Or at least rethink 1-2-3.
    The gap now between a k04 and hybrid is just too small, limited as Bill has said all along by the small turbine. There is no point try to make something fit ie stage 1-2-3 into a market that doesn't exist.

    Run a k04 at 280 a rs6/2280 at 300 and rs6/2283 at what ever you want to squeeze out of it.

    Keep it simple I say, plus it makes mapping easier as it'll stop tuners trying to second guess what's actually in the dam thing!
     
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  30. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Did you phone cr?
     
  31. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    I am on it, will do it tomorrow just had so much to do today
     
  32. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    billet compressor wheel aluminium, machined houseing to fit wheel, 360 degree thrust bearing, large turbine clipped, wastgate ported to 22mm
     
  33. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    what does large turbine wheel mean Dan? is it an RS6 one?
     
  34. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    I have no ideal lol thats all they told me
     
  35. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    I presume it will be, thats the only one larger than the S3 item.
     
  36. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    they are such a joke lol
     
  37. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    Okay i got the new actuator today (14psi), set it up on the car with three turns of pre-load. unpluged N75 and it bosted to 14psi then droped down to 11psi. with n75 red line boost has droped by one psi to 16psi, but with pipe taken off the actuator its boosting close to 19psi at red line.

    Would you say 19psi is a good boost at red line considering i have two stock intercoolers which will be creating more of a drop than with a upgraded single one?
     
  38. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    So with n75 unplugged you get 14psi running to 11 and no pipe hold 19psi.

    Something not right there! With n75 unplugged it should easily hold 14psi all the way... Maybe your n75 is knackered. Try plumbing the actuator directly to the charge pipe, ie bypassing the n75
     
  39. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

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    It may be that i am still getting the wastegate opening at high rpm due to pressure build up. i will try the bypass tomorrow and see what happens. but i dont think it is the n75, but you never know!
     
  40. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Right, going to change my mind here on reflection, I assume your boost gauge is plumped into the inlet manifold? And the actuator gets its boost from the charge pipe . Therefore with n75 unplugged you are getting a 3psi pressure drop from turbo to inlet. Hence why only showing 11psi at redline. The 19psi you are seeing would then relate to about 21-22psi with the actuator unPlugged. I'd suggest it's not blowing open now and the stock intercoolering are causing the pressure drop.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
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