1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

CR hybrid stage 3 turbo ....

Dan s3 audi Sep 11, 2012

  1. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

    10,110
    736
    38
    I presume the figure was from when he was mapping it, but it was unstable and to hot and had to be turned down, tried timing witch just introduced knock, i think Paul was just as peed off as me, he tried everything.. it just wasnt going to happen. no WMI installed yet, i have one to go on, but i dont think i am going to pursue the hybrid any further...
     
  2. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    9,370
    1,913
    113
    clipping remember was in part to try and manage surge....... which yes I know is possible with some effort in mapping, but seemed to have benefit, without compromising spool (on the dyno) - the hotside remains the choke... as a side note, did you see a picture on slappys thread on vortex where a guy posted his relentless mani, running an external wg, and his hotside was an hgp one which looked to have had a welded in and machined insert on the hotside.. for bigger ar I guess. Interesting I thought.


    Lupo makes 332bhp on clipped RS6 turbine/2283 comp in a K03 hotside with water meth from 20psi boost.. Smallport, 9.5:1 AUM engine.
    16psi makes 280bhp, 11psi makes 230bhp
     
  3. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    9,370
    1,913
    113
    WMI cars are the only ones which have gone on to make the higher power levels on the hybrids..
    As is probably obvious to you now, heat is the enemy.... so things like wmi, make the difference, not just AITs but the meth contribution to allowing more ign advance and reduced egt's for the same boost.... so you can get more from less.

    I bleat about this all the time, except no one listens.... :sighs:
     
  4. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

    10,110
    736
    38
    Dan i have had 275 g/s out of it unintentionally when my wastegate jammed! CR says its very close to there recommended max of 300 bhp so cannot see a problem...
     
  5. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    I went for a drive this morning with the n75 valve unpluged and it was boosting around 7psi at around 4-5k rpm then it was dropping to around 5psi. So i tightened it up around three half turns and its makeing 9psi at 4-5k rpm then dropping down to sevenish. So should i give it another turn maybe to increase it more? car already feels better with valve plugged in. it seems to drop to 14psi at 7k rpm
     
  6. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    9,370
    1,913
    113
    if you have the travel in the arm still add a little more and it should hold more..
    remember the wg is having to hold shut a pressure ratio of approx 2:1 or 2.5:1 inside that ex mani/hotside
    (eg: 20psi in plenum, 40psi in exhaust mani type pressure ratio)
     
  7. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    Thanks for the info bill i will give it two more turns see what happens.
     
  8. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    Okay so i gave it two more turns. with n75 unplugged its boosting tad under 10psi and at red line its 8psi. with it plugged it i am getting 24-25psi peak boost then a drop to just over 15psi which is much better than befor. dose this setting sound about right now or should i give it one more turn so i can try get it to 10psi at red line? or is that just too far.
     
  9. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    9,369
    2,367
    113
    dave. what are your intake temps?
    you know where im heading...
     
  10. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    when you say 15psi dose that mean at red line or peak boost? cheers
     
  11. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    what would you set your boost at with the n75 unplugged at red line? cheers
     
  12. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    11,370
    3,232
    113
    Peak AND redline mate. At such low boost it should be held right out to the redline without dropping off at all.


    It seems strange to me that your boost drops off at top end even on actuator pressure. Mine of anything rises slightly at the top end to about 13 psi where the waste gate can't flow enough to bypass the turbine entirely.
     
  13. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

    10,110
    736
    38
    Extremely low Karl, infact Paul couldnt believe it with so many back to back runs.....Next..;)
     
  14. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    Yer i am wondering wether it is due to the large port head and low compression pistons, its not picking the boost up quick enough. could it also be that the two standard intercoolers are restricting the flow at all?
     
  15. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

    10,110
    736
    38
    Dan, you are making progress tweaking the actuator, What is the car driving like now? do you have VCDS?
     
  16. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    11,370
    3,232
    113
    Possibly yea, it's very hard to work out what's going on when you have such an odd spec! Higher than. Last in many many ways, yet scary stock ICs will be making things very hot!
     
  17. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    well on the dyno sheets peak bhp was at 5442 rpm where it dropped down to 180bhp at 6500rpm due to the boost going down to like 13psi. now the car feels like its holding power better at higher rpm. so do i tweek it a little more then? vcds, whats this sorry?
     
  18. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

    10,110
    736
    38
    Im struggling to understand why Jabba did not address the actuator as they did smoke tests etc?? and the low boost points an arrow directly at that...:uhm:
     
  19. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    well i was mad jobles after four years with one company the end of last month so i run out of funds and threw the car together to get mobile again. how much am i looking at for a intercooler that is any good and allows a good flow?
     
  20. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    he put his pressure pump gauge on the pipe going to the actuator and pumped it up and said it was opening at the correct pressure. i did say i had played with it by mistake.
     
  21. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

    10,110
    736
    38
    I Presume it will need a MAP tweak now the preload has altered? Bill etc, will give better advise
     
  22. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    he said to me that it was all set so one i found the boost problem it will limit it self, but i do want to get it cheacked again. Just anoying because its a 180 mile drive to jabba from bath.
     
  23. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

    10,110
    736
    38
    Ah ah School boy error, it may have had the correct crack pressure but if it was loose by the wastegate it meant nothing...
     
  24. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    with me makeing it tighter will that alter the crack pressure?
     
  25. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    11,370
    3,232
    113
    Oh man :( why did you go to Joanna anyway when you're less than an hour from badger 5? Bill is the master of these hybrids!
     
  26. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    11,370
    3,232
    113
    Joanna = jabba iPhone fail
     
  27. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    i moved down here last week from lincolnshire, so just thought i would. where abouts is bill then because i might see if he can check things over and check the mixture
     
  28. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

    1,931
    201
    63
    You need at least be able to hold 18-21psi at the red line to make decent power. Anything less and power is just going to drop off.

    Also and I'm sure it's not an issue, but just because the actuator cracks at 10 psi doesn't mean it's not going to blown open or can't sustain boost at higher exhaust pressures. As Bill pointed out 20 psi boost is 40 psi turbine pressure. The waste gate could be blowing or forcing its self open, no amount of preload is going to help that.

    Its not recommended but the only way you can test is to unplug the pipe to the waste gate and drive sensibly to where you boost would normally peak then drive hard to the redline and see what the boost then does, that way you'll see what the actuator can hold without and assistance.

    Result being if it still only holds 13 psi at redline then your waste gate is blowing open against the actuator spring and if it holds 18-21psi then you know it has to be a bad n75.

    I stress though if it's all ok and you do it wrong then you'll surge the turbo, stick 30 psi spike through the engine and potentially damage it, so do with caution and personally I'd suggest not to do but it's really only a true way to test.
     
  29. sambryant

    sambryant stage 2+ mk2 seat leon cupra

    167
    12
    18
    Dan I'm from bath, but moved to Bristol a few years ago. How old are you and where in bath do you live?
     
  30. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    I will give that a go in the morning. i am finding tho at 25psi the turbo is surging in higher gears, could this mean that there is a flow problem between the turbo and manifold?
     
  31. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    i am 23, living just outside of bath (bradford-on-avon)
     
  32. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

    1,931
    201
    63
    Please do with extreme caution, it's potentially not good.

    Below 4750rpm I'd expect surge to occur at 25psi on any setup, map sensor is just before the throttle anyway so what it sees the manifold see's . The 1.8t can't handle 25psi sustained below that rpm with out surging . What happens between there and the redline is the more important question.
     
  33. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    how do i get rid of the surge? at the low rpm?
     
  34. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

    1,931
    201
    63
    Has to mapped out. Holding the boost below aprox 19 psi till the engine can consume the air, typically around 4500-4750rpm .
     
  35. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    Okay with the pipe connected from the actuator to the n75 16psi on red line, with the pipe disconected 16psi. so i guess that rules out the n75. what next?
     
  36. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

    20,847
    3,687
    113
    This isn't a dating site Sam ;P

    <tuffty/>
     
    s3clarke likes this.
  37. sambryant

    sambryant stage 2+ mk2 seat leon cupra

    167
    12
    18
    My bad, sorry dan i have a mrs :)
     
  38. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    9,370
    1,913
    113
    If I read this right... on n75 control you get 16psi at 6800rpm and with the actuator disconnected completely you get the same 16psi yea?

    If so, the turbos flat out..... and one reason could be the wg itself is being blown open by manifold pressure.. as I suggested earlier and beachbuggy also said.
    There is a lot of backpressure in these setups..

    Also.. worth considering is how much overall pressure drop you have from turbo outlet to inlet plenum, given you have stock twin smic.
    without fmic, I would think 18psi held flat across the rev range would be suited to stock intercooling. To hold 18psi of course the awg would need to be staying shut = a stiffer actuator required as adding preload will at some point rob the turbo of wg travel.

    I mention pressure drop as the 16psi at plenum may be 26psi at turbo outlet! (if there's a 10psi pressure drop, which I have seen on some poor setups)

    Surge is going to occur without a progressive build of boost OR improving the engines breathing abilities.. (capacity, cams etc)

    oh, my location etc is in my siggy.. Just south of Gloucester
     
  39. Dan s3 audi

    Dan s3 audi Member

    164
    0
    16
    Okay so what i will do tonight is plumb the pressure gauge befor the n75 so that it reads the pressure at turbo and not after intercoolers. I do think to it is a wastegate proplem after reading a thread that you did with a hybrid turbo i see that they had ported the wastegate too much. i have lots of travel left on the actuactor to i will tweek that a little more befor i look into getting a new actuator. Now what should the reading of a hybrid turbo in boost be before the intercoolers and what rpm just to give me a figure to work from as i have no idea what hybrid turbos are cabable of delevering boost wise. I am a learning man lol
     
  40. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    9,370
    1,913
    113
    unleashed they will >30psi easily.. which you dont want to see.
    I aim for 12psi actuator (plenum) pressure on these as a start point.. N75 off in your terms

    it will spool hard from 3krpm
     

Share This Page