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Could Audi have over written the software on my new door control module A1?

Discussion in 'VCDS (formerly VAG-COM) forum' started by pns2007, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    I retro fitted heated and folding mirrors on my A1 last year. Anyway after a vcds scan on my car i noticed I had a heater flap fault and the software on the bluetooth was out of date (My Galaxy S3 wouldn't connect properly).

    Anyway booked my car into local Audi dealer for the above together with some other minor warrenty work and their tech said to me that he had done a software update on the car which was supposedly to have cured the above faults.

    Anyway when I got my car back I noticed the heated mirrors didn't work and the folding option didn't work either and on checking with a new vcds scan discovered that the codes of both door control modules had changed.

    The thing is I had physically changed both door control modules to new later versions which supported folding mirrors. It is obvious that Audi have over written my vcds settings back to factory spec but could their computer also have over written the software in the new door control modules back to a software version of the ones originally supplied with the car? I have re-coded the door control modules back to the same coding as before but the folding option does not work and it throws error codes.

    The new vcds scan shows the same part number and coding as the scan prior to Audi's intervention.

    I am hopeful that I can take the car back explain the situation and they will install new software in the door control module so the mirrors will work again. I can't think of any other reason why they don't work now!

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks in advance
    #1
  2. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Have you got a log of the firmware versions of the door modules before they touched it?

    Have you checked anyother modules for these functions to be enabled now?

    Yeah take it back mate.
    #2
  3. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    As far as I can see no other modules are involved. The A1 has limited modules mapped out by Ross Tech by I have checked the coding on all of them.

    I'm not too sure how to check the firmware, but I'm sure it's been overwritten.

    got to take it back next week for a new roof trim to be fitted while I wait. There giving me lunch so I will ask them to recode whilst having my desert lol

    cheers Nigel
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  4. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Did you have a full autoscan of the door modules before, as this will show you the FW of them before they were touched, its written at top when logged into a module :)
    #4
  5. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    No! I just saved the general scan as follows:-

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386) Labels: 8X0-959-793.clb
    Part No SW: 8X0 959 793 E HW: 8X0 959 793 E
    Component: TSG FA H09 0410
    Revision: -------- Serial number: --------------
    Coding: 011E02201001000100
    Shop #: WSC 00046 123 12345
    VCID: 4FA74BDB1E8D9266417


    No fault code found.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387) Labels: 8X0-959-792.clb
    Part No SW: 8X0 959 792 E HW: 8X0 959 792 E
    Component: TSG BF H09 0410
    Revision: -------- Serial number: --------------
    Coding: 011E02201401000100
    Shop #: WSC 00046 123 12345
    VCID: 4E9956DF19879B6E4A1


    No fault code found.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Hopefully the Audi dealer will play ball.

    Thanks Nigel
    #5
  6. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Well current firmware is possibly 0410, check them now mate.
    #6
  7. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    New scan post Audi intervention is:-

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386) Labels: 8X0-959-793.clb
    Part No SW: 8X0 959 793 E HW: 8X0 959 793 E
    Component: TSG FA H09 0410
    Revision: -------- Serial number: --------------
    Coding: 011E02200101000100
    Shop #: WSC 00121 210 96463
    VCID: 4FA74BDB1E8D926646F

    No fault code found.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387) Labels: 8X0-959-792.clb
    Part No SW: 8X0 959 792 E HW: 8X0 959 792 E
    Component: TSG BF H09 0410
    Revision: -------- Serial number: --------------
    Coding: 011E02200101000100
    Shop #: WSC 00121 210 96463
    VCID: 4E9956DF19879B6E4D9

    No fault code found.


    The difference is in the Shop and VCID numbers i.e.

    Drivers door - originally - Shop = WSC 00046 123 12345 and VCID = 4FA74BDB1E8D9266417
    after Audi ...............................
    WSC 00121 210 96463 and VCID = 4FA74BDB1E8D926646F

    Do the shop and VCID numbers relate to firmware.
    #7
  8. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Show us a full log of the 42/52 door modules with faults after coding the folding etc in.
    #8
  9. s8craig
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    s8craig Active Member

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    I agree with NHN that the firmware is 0410 and looks not to have changed. Some modules can be updated online with SVM but I would doubt the door controller modules fall under that category. As to why you can't program them back is a mystery.
    #9
  10. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    Thanks Craig and Nigel, I have taken two screen prints of the modules

    Passenger
    [​IMG]

    Drivers door

    [​IMG]


    The full scan including error codes are:-

    Sunday,03,March,2013,19:21:14:20670
    VCDS Version: Beta 12.10.3
    Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 8X0-959-793.clb
    Control Module Part Number: 8X0 959 793 E HW: 8X0 959 793 E
    Component and/or Version: TSG FA H09 0410
    Software Coding: 011E02201001000100
    Work Shop Code: WSC 00121 210 96463
    VCID: 4FA74BDB1E8D926646F
    1 Fault Found:
    02117 - Motor for Mirror Folding
    011 - Open Circuit
    Freeze Frame:
    Fault Status: 01101011
    Fault Priority: 3
    Fault Frequency: 1
    Reset counter: 149
    Mileage: 9831 km
    Time Indication: 0
    Date: 2013.03.03 Time: 19:20:04
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sunday,03,March,2013,19:22:35:20670
    VCDS Version: Beta 12.10.3
    Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 8X0-959-792.clb
    Control Module Part Number: 8X0 959 792 E HW: 8X0 959 792 E
    Component and/or Version: TSG BF H09 0410
    Software Coding: 011E02201401000100
    Work Shop Code: WSC 00121 210 96463
    VCID: 4E9956DF19879B6E4D9
    1 Fault Found:
    02117 - Motor for Mirror Folding
    011 - Open Circuit
    Freeze Frame:
    Fault Status: 01101011
    Fault Priority: 3
    Fault Frequency: 1
    Reset counter: 149
    Mileage: 9831 km
    Time Indication: 0
    Date: 2013.03.03 Time: 19:20:04


    It seems strange that when I picked up my car the coding had been reverted back with a tick in the Bit 0 "heated mirrors not installed" on both modules, both modules relating to bit 4 "folding mirrors installed" were unticked and also on the passenger door Bit 2 relaing to dipping mirror was unticked.

    Part of the warrenty work undertaken by Audi was to fix a creaking noise coming from the passenger door. They had the door card off so presumably they would of had to clear the codes thrown regarding door lights etc.

    I cannot understand why this has happened!!!

    Edit - The other thing which may be of relevance is that there is no fault code triggered until I turn the switch to fold the mirrors.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
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  11. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Ok thats not a coding issue fella, given coding has taken, thats not seeing the folding wiring/motor as such, have they plugged the actual mirror connectors back in?
    #11
  12. s8craig
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    s8craig Active Member

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    I was thinking, have they removed the fuses, but leaving the folding mirrors unplugged makes more sense. When they recoded your options out they would have got errors about incorrect coding, so to get around it they have unplugged them and they no longer complain. When you coded them back in they complained again.
    #12
  13. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Nah if they removed fuses the whole door module would be dead & no locking functions, but I reckon you could be right about disconnecting the 2 folding wires.
    #13
  14. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    There is only one loom going from the control module to the wing mirror with a 8 pin black plug (if I remember right) so if this plug wasn't connected nothing would work. The drivers door wasn't touched as far as I'm aware.

    The A1 didn't come with heated mirrors as standard but the older module did support it. It just needed a wire and coding. The newer module I bought supports mirror folding.

    I don't normally use the folding action tbh, but the other morning I noticed the ice didn't clear on the mirrors, I ran a scan and low and behold the coding to the heated mirror had changed and was not active. I have reactivated it (and the dipping on reverse) which now work fine. The mirrors won't however fold. This is why I believe the module has been changed in some way.
    #14
  15. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    The Audi tech also came out with me in a test to identify the creaking noise. It was him who said it was the passenger door. I thought it best to advise him beforehand that i'd had new mirrors fitted and he asked why were they damaged. I told him i'd replaced them with new folding ones and also changed the door modules. He appeared interested but not impressed lol. The reason I say this is that he was therefore aware of the change so should have been aware re the recoding (if thats applicable). In any case that's my defence when it goes back. The creaking is still there and I've said to leave it now as I'm aware it could be something I caused and don't want a bill for it.
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  16. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Remove door card & check wiring mate, thats next option tbh fella.

    Give me a bell if you like mate, you still got my number as may have changed since, PM to confirm number.
    #16
  17. pns2007
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    Thanks Nigel. PM sent.

    Phoned audi this morning, they asked who supplied SVM code and that I take it back to them. I told them I did it and that I'd told their tech the mirrors had been retro fitted and she said they dont cover retro fits as there not done by audi.

    I've played a face and told them they may have ruined £150 's worth of module and they now say they will ask tech to look at it. They've not mentioned a charge yet !!!!
    #17
  18. s8craig
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    s8craig Active Member

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    Without being blunt, Audi have every right to tell you to do one. Looking after retrofits are not their responsibility and they want the car as factory when they work on it. Then they don't have to think outside the box and repairs are easy.

    Most cars are SVM'd after any work is carried out, that makes sure everything is exactly as it left the factory. What concerns me is that after the SVM the modules should have complained about incorrect coding as they would have seen the motors. What happened to "correct" this issue.
    #18
  19. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    Thanks Craig. I'm assuming that as the original coding of the car didn't have the folding option and therefore when the coding reverted back to 'normal' the car wasn't aware it had folding mirrors so wouldn't "complain" as you put it. It wasn't until I recoded the module that the error code appeared.

    with regards to retro fit and Audi, when the tech said to me he was going to recode my climate control and Bluetooth I specifically said to him that I had retrofitted the mirrors to avoid this problem. He was therefore aware of this so should of (IMHO) advised against any worked being carried out.

    I'm assuming they can now do this SVM update in retrospect?
    #19
  20. bearthebruce
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    bearthebruce Ross-Tech, LLC

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    I don't know how much this light may shed on this story... I asked Peter, our former Audi tech to read this thread. He reported the following to me:

    So, it is likely that they did modify the coding and that they have noted that changes had been made. As to whether or not this is in some way blocking your folding mirrors from working, I'm not see how that is possible. Once recoded, I expect them to work unless something else was done while it was in for service.
    #20
  21. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Yeah I'd agree with that as firmware version has remained the same, but I do wonder if another module is blocking the feature or some backdoor setting audi have implemented to disable this, who knows, but be interesting to see what would happen with another pair of compatible folding door modules.

    I would also put 12volt on the mirror folding circuit wires to see if they do indeed move ok, I doubt this is the issue as 2 mirrors going faulty is highly unlikely, but we cant assume anything here, so I'd actually test to discount this.
    #21
  22. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    Thanks for your contributions guys.

    Well, took my car to the dealers yesterday to have new trim fitted. Cut along story short but the trim was damaged after painting so it was a wasted journey. They were very apologetic :)

    I seized the moment and told the tech about the mirrors, took the old modules with me, before and after VCDs scans and explained they worked before it had been at their garage. He asked if I had an svm code but I don't (anybody know what this could might be?)

    Well he took the scans and said he will look into the matter and gave the impression he will try and recode when the car is next back at the garage for the trim to be fitted.

    I'm hopeful for a good result to this particularly due to my wasted journey yesterday.

    Nigel, if the weathers good at the week end I will try your suggestion.

    Bruce, on the return of my car from the Audi garage I did a scan an have the following fault code after the climate control module was supposed to have been updated:-

    Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255) Labels: None
    Part No SW: 8X0 820 043 B HW: 8X0 820 043 B
    Component: Klima 1 Zone H12 0080
    Serial number: 00000000100673
    Coding: 6420000000
    Shop #: WSC 00046 790 00000
    ASAM Dataset: EV_AirCondiFrontAU210 006035
    ROD: EV_AirCondiFrontAU210.rod
    VCID: 336F272B9A65D686427


    1 Fault Found:
    0043 - Function Restriction due to Faults in Other Modules
    U1113 00 [008] - -
    Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
    Freeze Frame:
    Fault Status: 00000001
    Fault Priority: 6
    Fault Frequency: 4
    Reset counter: 169
    Mileage: 9613 km
    Date: 2013.02.21
    Time: 15:51:14

    There was also a fault code regarding the door warning light on the passenger door where they had removed the door card. I think it's obviuos that no scan was done after the update otherwise they should of picked up the above fault.

    The original fault in module 08 was:-

    Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255) Labels: None
    Part No SW: 8X0 820 043 B HW: 8X0 820 043 B
    Component: Klima 1 Zone H12 0070
    Serial number: 00000000100673
    Coding: 6420000000
    Shop #: WSC 00046 790 00000
    ASAM Dataset: EV_AirCondiFrontAU210 006035
    ROD: EV_AirCondiFrontAU210.rod
    VCID: 336F272B9A65D686453


    1 Fault Found:
    0013 - Motor for Fresh Air / Recirculated Air Flap
    B108B 07 [008] - Mechanical Failure
    Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
    Freeze Frame:
    Fault Status: 00000001
    Fault Priority: 3
    Fault Frequency: 28
    Reset counter: 29
    Mileage: 5396 km
    Date: 2012.10.02
    Time: 13:39:53

    which has now gone.

    (I'm going off topic slightly there but thought it might be relevant to your post)




    Thanks
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
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  23. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    I thought I'd update this thread.

    Despite my car going back into Audi and them asking a retro fit specialist to look at my car the problem was not resolved.

    I decided to strip the door cards off again and put 12v to each mirror and hey presto the mirrors folded. It was not therefore faulty mirror motors. I put a multi meter on the terminals in the door control module and tested - nothing! It had to therefore be the modules.

    I bit the bullet and purchased another two modules (one for each door), same part number as previously fitted the mirrors work fine now, just as they should do.

    Therefore in my opinion, Audi's computer has somehow flashed the modules with either hidden coding or overwritten firmware but vcds still reads as the same part no etc.

    Audi have agreed to refund the cost of the new parts and we are discussing some gestures of goodwill.

    Thanks to Nigel for his time on the telephone
    #23
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  24. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    I want to get to the bottom of this tbh as there are no signs of change in firmware at all, how would you like to do some research with old & new modules?
    #24
  25. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    What research do you have in mind? I can but try!
    #25
  26. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Adaptation channels, a complete comparison of your original/new folding mirror coding/channels, reason I say this is because originals still accepts the coding, you didn't need to change anyother module coding with latest modules for it to work again, so something within the old modules has disabled the system & I want to know what it is lol.
    #26
  27. Ste_Nova
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    Ste_Nova Active Member

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    while you had the door card off did you fix the noise?
    #27
  28. Tricky1971
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    Tricky1971 New Member

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    image.jpg image.jpg Hi I also have a module issue on my 2010 a4 b8 avant. Recently fitted illuminated door handles ,puddle lights and warning lights in front and rear doors . Coding all doors with vcds and fronts all worked fine but the rear door handles didn't work only. Spoke to tr8ps and he had seen a thread regarding the shaded panels on the rear modules which indicated full shaded was the ones I need not half shaded. I purchased 2 from eBay Germany and installed them to the doors then recoded them using vcds and neither puddle or handles light up with new ones. Old part no 8k0959795C . New part no, 8K0959795E
    #28
  29. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    OK Nigel, I'll have a look, but expect a phone call when I do it LOL!
    #29
  30. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    Noise fixed Ste_Nova. One of the poppers had broken off the door card. A bit of araldite sorted it!
    #30
  31. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Open a new thread in the relevant section please.
    #31
  32. pns2007
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    pns2007 Member

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    Thanks Tricky, The letter at the end of the part number will indicate what the module will do, in etka there is usually a PR code to identify what it will work. I had no issue with the part number of the door module I had, my mirrors were working perfectly prior to going into Audi and having some sort of software refresh. I bought new modules with same part number and everything now works as it did.
    #32
  33. Tricky1971
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    Tricky1971 New Member

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    Thanks
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  34. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    After Wednesday is cool, as wont be around mate :)

    Innotec Topfix is king, expensive but man its brilliant, makes araldite look silly, albeit gun for it cost me £65 & the applicators are single usage at £1 per, but that's cause it only takes only one usage to do the job at hand.
    #34
  35. Tricky1971
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    Tricky1971 New Member

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    Has anyone got etka that could look up a module code for me.?
    thanks
    #35

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