1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Copper grease and wheel bolts

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by arthurfuxake, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. arthurfuxake
    Offline

    arthurfuxake Controversial & Contradictive

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    I had to change a wheel on the side of the road in the dark and rain recently, and I battled my behind off to loosen the bolts. Now, I'm not a small lad(16 stone), and they required some serious jumping on the wheel brace to release them.

    Is it ok to put some copper grease onto the bolts so that they don't seize in future?
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Sep 20, 2014]

  3. 1210tech
    Offline

    1210tech Four Ring Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    yeah, whack it on there, get a sprayable copper grease from halfords rather than one you have to apply with ya finger.

    the bolts should ideally be greased every time they are removed to avoid them seizing, also spray the face of the brake disc where the alloy touches to stop that from bonding as well and as its copper grease it won't matter if you over spray onto the disc face. :thumbsup:
    #2
  4. madvw
    Offline

    madvw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    I wouldn't use copper grease, it sometimes falls onto the ABS sensors and causes problems.

    Audi supply a non-metallic grease just for this purpose.
    #3
  5. Marko
    Offline

    Marko Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    Well I've read and heard the opposite, they must never have any grease on them. I always put some on the wheel that come into contact with the hub as, sometimes, the wheels can really stick. I had to use a block of wood and a hammer when I first got the car. Don't think Audi had the wheels off as per so called brake check.

    I'm interested to know now, whether they can be greased. Personally I wouldn't at present. ??
    #4
  6. madvw
    Offline

    madvw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    that proves i didnt read the post properly...

    yep, just the mating faces of the wheel and hub should be greased, not the bolts.
    #5
  7. peteA3tdi
    Offline

    peteA3tdi Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    NEVER PUT GREASE OR COOPER SLIP ON WHEEL STUDS OR BOLTS
    if you do when they heat up they can snap and your wheel will come off
    #6
  8. Ess_Three
    Offline

    Ess_Three Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    5,383
    Likes Received:
    6
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    What?
    Give over...

    VW, Audi, Honda and Porsche all Coppaslip both wheel bolts and hubs around here...and despite track work I've never had any issues....and I'm damn sure all these dealers wouldn't do it if it wasn't kosher.

    I have once had the pleasure of tyring to change a rear wheel on a Golf where the owner (my dad) used only 3 in 1 oil on the threads...it took me 2 hours to change the wheel...the bolts were corroded solid and the alloy wheel to hub was all but welded together.

    Coppaslip avoids both.

    I agree that there should be consideration given to tightening torques for wheels, dry vs lubricated...but wheels coming off?
    Give over...
    #7
  9. Diesel Dan
    Offline

    Diesel Dan New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    I have been using Coppaslip on wheel bolts and on the mounting flanges for 30 years without any problems.

    Makes life so much easier the next time you have to dismantle things.
    #8
  10. james0808
    Offline

    james0808 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,548
    Likes Received:
    3
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    Ive never used anything on mine but might start to now.
    #9
  11. marmite
    Offline

    marmite Counting the Tesco Club points

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,101
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    If you are going to use cooper slip on bolts and hub faces remember to clean the bolts and faces first, use a wire brush
    I have seen bolts seized in were someone has used cooper slip on them when they were dirty

    Other issue is people not torquing up the wheels, they think they have to be done up really really tight torque them up no issue

    Cleaning the inside of the alloy were it sits on the hub helps and I use spray Alu spray from wurth and never ever had an issue
    #10
  12. Randomjim
    Offline

    Randomjim Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    3
    [Dec 20, 2006]
    Don't like the sound of any sort of grease on wheel bolts. Invest in a torque wrench.
    #11
  13. arthurfuxake
    Offline

    arthurfuxake Controversial & Contradictive

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 21, 2006]
    It wasn't the torque that was making them hard to undo, it was the corrosion. They were stiff even once loose, and were stiff putting them back in. I was on the side of the motorway, so didn't have time to get the wire-brush out.

    Anyway, I bought some copper grease from halfrauds and one of the recommended uses on the box is wheel bolts, so I'm gonna give them a nice clean and a very thin coat.
    #12
  14. 1210tech
    Offline

    1210tech Four Ring Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 21, 2006]
    jobs a good 'un! ;)
    #13
  15. batwad
    Offline

    batwad Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 21, 2006]
    Everyone should invest in a telescopic wheel brace. You can get ones that are the same size as the standard kit but extend to twice the length. I've never jumped on a wheel brace since!
    #14
  16. Ess_Three
    Offline

    Ess_Three Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    5,383
    Likes Received:
    6
    [Dec 23, 2006]
    As a small update to this...

    The latest Porsche Club GB mag dropped through the letterbox today, and within is contains an article on the Do's and Don't of lubricants on wheel bolts etc, according to Porsche AG.

    Now, I appreciate this isn't Audi..but the basics are the same...and if the wheels are likely to come off an Audi, they will a Porsche, in the same way.

    Wheels bolts are all the same size and thread incidentally.

    According to Porsche you should use a lubricant - they suggest an 'alloy heavy' lubricating grease along the same lines as Copaslip, but silver in colour, and carrying a Porsche part number (priced accordingly!!)

    This should be applied to the hubs to prevent galvanic corrosion.
    Also:

    The threaded portion of the wheel bolts, to prevent the bolts from corroding solid in the threads...

    The non threaded portion of the wheel bolt between the threads and the conical washer under the hex, to prevent corrosion again...

    The flat portion at the top of the conical washer directly under the hex, to ensure the hex turns freely and doesn't bind on the washer...



    It also states that you should NOT lubricate the seating portion of the conical washer where it seats against the hardened metal seat in the allow wheel.



    I see no reason why Audi/VW etc would be any different.
    #15
  17. Mcgough
    Offline

    Mcgough Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 23, 2006]

    I have to laugh loudly then agree....what a load of ********..!!!

    of course you should use copper slip......just out off interest when you next get new pads/disks done at audi when you get your car back i think you will find that they will copper slip the alloy wheel contact area and the bolts..


    ....oh look ive just had new disks and pads and re-furbed wheels and oh look copper slip...who put that there i wonder......fricken audi... you want me too
    take pics and post them up to prove you wrong!!




    he he he he im still laughing...i better go and remove all the copper slip from my racecar in case my wheel snaps off.
    #16
  18. Mcgough
    Offline

    Mcgough Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 23, 2006]
    ...just checked on back on my GRANVILLE COPPER GREASE.

    Protection against heat...nothing about wheels falling off.
    #17
  19. a4sline
    Offline

    a4sline Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Dec 24, 2006]
    Audi list a paste especially for wheel changing.
    Called " Assembly paste for wheel changing" and the part number is G052109A2. We use it all the time roadside and never have the problem again.
    HTH
    #18
  20. Buzz
    Offline

    Buzz Full Throttle

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 24, 2006]
    A light greasing of the bolt thread reduces the required torque to achieve the same tension. The tension value is what you're really looking for when tightening a bolt; too loose, and the parts move, but too tight, and the bolt stretches. Designers of bolts usually asssume that a bolt will be greased/oiled when calculating torque application figures.

    In addition, a 'dry' bolt will normally require more torque to do up to overcome the running friction of the threads.

    A copper based grease is OK for wheel bolts and break parts but can lead to galvanic corrosion in some circumstances. I prefer to use a nickel based grease eg Never Seez (this is probably what Porsche use in Ess_Three's reply).
    #19
  21. Caesium
    Offline

    Caesium My BM is fixed!

    Joined:
    May 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,879
    Likes Received:
    4
    [Dec 24, 2006]
    I as stated before used to be a car mechanic, and I have always greased the wheel bolts/studs and the face of the disc before putting the wheels back on.The main reason for this is to avoid corrosion as stated by some other posters. Alloy wheels and cast iron brake discs can suffer from Galvanic metal corrosion, this is where 2 dissimilar metals are in direct contact (amongst other criteria) the metals have a tendancy to almost weld together. Copper ease will stop this from happening. simple
    #20
  22. Ess_Three
    Offline

    Ess_Three Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    5,383
    Likes Received:
    6
    [Dec 24, 2006]

    The Porsche stuff is Optimoly TA paste, available in 90g tubes from your local OPC for the sum of £12.17 (ouch!)

    The OPC I use still use Coppaslip though...
    #21

Share This Page