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Considering Facelift A6 Diesel - Some Questions

Discussion in 'A6/S6/Allroad forum (C6 Chassis)' started by Springer*, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Springer*
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    Springer* Member

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    [Sep 18, 2013]
    Hi there,

    I'm considering changing my trusty B6 A4 1.9 Quattro Sport 130 for something newer and a little classier and whilst a B8 A4 does seem like the obvious choice, I do like the look of the facelift A6.

    It'd have to be an S-Line or Le Mans spec for the better (IMO) exterior looks and full leather interior, but I can't decide on whether or not to go for the 2.7 TDi or the 2.0 TDi 170.

    It'd also have to be a manual I think.

    I've heard that the 2.0 is underpowered but I assume when people say they are referring to the boggo 140bhp model. Is the 170 much better? I would have thought so.

    Also, does anyone have a remapped 170 model? How much better is that?

    The 170 has really impressive fuel economy and low tax too which make it a really attractive proposition.

    What are the common faults with this engine? What should I look for?

    I'd be looking for an 09 plate onwards.

    Are there any issues with this engine in the A6 that wouldn't get in say, the A4?

    Also, I like the look of the 190bhp 2.7 engine with its excellent CO2 figures and economy... I'm assuming its the introduction of the start-stop technology that has made this engine so much more efficient?

    I love the creamy smoothness of the V6 diesels :yes:

    Are there any common issues with this engine?

    Does it have timing chains or belts?

    If the timing belts need changing, what sorts of costs are you looking at?

    How does the 2.7 cope with higher mileages?

    Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers,

    J:)
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  3. towcestervag
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    towcestervag Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 19, 2013]
    one of my customers has a 2.7tdi on a 57 plate
    the car has got 167k on the clock and only recently has had any problems
    it needs a intake manifold flap motor
    its had the gearbox oil changed every 40k and gets serviced every year/10k
    this engine is cam chain driven
    the 2.0tdi would have to be 170bhp
    you will get away with a 140bhp but would recommend a remap as this makes the car so much nicer to drive/smoother
    again i look after several with high miles
    the 58 plate onwards cars dont suffer from oil pump problems
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  4. Springer*
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    Springer* Member

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    [Sep 19, 2013]
    Wow, thanks for the reply mate... very helpful indeed.

    the 2.7 you refer to is an older unit than I would be looking at but its interesting that it has managed to cover 160,000+ miles without too many issues.

    Is the car a manual or an auto?

    How easy is it to change the gearbox oil?

    How expensive a job is replacing an intake manifold flap motor?

    If the 2.7 has timing chains instead of belts, do the chains ever need replacing or is it more that the tensioners need servicing every so often etc? If so, how often is that and how expensive is this service?

    Thanks again,

    J:)
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  5. Funkyfin2000
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    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    [Sep 29, 2013]
    Doing the same here, but probably not until next year now when wife goes back to work from maternity!

    I'm looking for an 09 really as want the facelift due to cheaper insurance and no inlet manifold flap issues! It's VERY hard to find one sub £15k though, was hoping about £13k if possible! :(

    Let me know how you get on as I'm looking too, but must be a 3.0tdi!

    Rich
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  6. Springer*
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    Springer* Member

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    [Sep 30, 2013]
    Hi Rich,

    Yeah I'm looking at making the move over to an A6 sometime next year. My B6 is a superb car and has been a great buy, covering 30,000 miles in the last 2 and a half years and only costing me a couple of tyres and bulbs. I just would like something newer and with a bit more room in it I guess. The A6 seems to tick pretty much all of the boxes.

    My 1.9 TDi 130 Quattro is actually a very punchy car with good performance that belies the modest factory stats. The PD unit gives a strong slug of torque and a reasonably wide power band and also sounds quite beefy in the process. The only downside is that the B6 isn't the most refined car by modern standards and the engine drone does come into the cabin on the motorway. Its not bad at all but I guess I'm drawn to the extra refinement offered by the bigger A6 model with its longer wheelbase and increased sound deadening.

    I'll have to drive both the 2.0 TDi 170 and the 2.7 TDi V6 I think and get a feel for both. You read so many so called 'reviews' online from owners of each but so many people really haven't a clue. Some moan that the 2.0 TDi isn't a road rocket, but then again is it really going to be? What do they expect? Others buy an SE spec car then complain that its too soft and rolls too much in the corners. Then others get an S-Line or a Le Mans spec car with 19 inch wheels on it and then complain that the ride is too hard!? Others whinge about servicing costing too much or that air filters or oil filters cost too much because they only go through a main dealer, when anyone with even half a brain would look online or go through an independent where possible and make a huge saving.

    Basically, its difficult to get much of an idea.

    I think if I opted for a 2.0 TDi 170 and definitely consider a remap, EGR delete and DPF bypass pipe. I'm sure that would make for a very nice, quick car that didn't cost a fortune to run. I like the idea of cheap-ish road tax and 45mpg+ on the motorway in a big prestige car :)

    I've heard too that the improved build and sound deadening in the A6 make even the VAG 2.0 TDi unit sound pretty quiet.

    Still, saying this I'm kind of drawn to the 2.7 too. The unit in the facelift models from late 2008 onwards I think has start/stop and as such has a much lower CO2 rating and improved economy, making this engine apparently deliver the kind of figures you would expect from a 2.0 litre 4 pot.

    I've also driven a 2.5 V6 TDi A4 convertible in the past and that was a lovely silky smooth engine. I liked the subtle power delivery and the much wider power band too.

    I wonder what kind of performance you could expect out of a remapped 2.7? :eyebrows:

    Of course, I'd love to stretch to a 3.0 TDi but I can't really justify the fuel expense and much higher tax band. I'm sure it'd be a lovely car but it really would be a huge step up in expense for me. I'm sure its an engine you can get a lot more out of though.

    Will have to see what happens anyway.

    J:)
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  7. elan2s
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    elan2s Member

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    I had a facelift TDie (2.0 136bhp) Avant and whilst it was no road rocket I never felt it was underpowered. I now have the 170bhp engine in my C7 and do not feel it is dramatically different. If you are after a manual you will find that V6 cars with manual gearboxes are rare (Audi no longer even offer the option on the C7). Facelift 2.0 cars have the Common Rail rather than PD engine and that is much more reliable, but still belt rather than chain driven. The improvements to the V6 engines were down to improved mapping, not Stop/Start as this was not offered on the C6 range. All of the V6 cars are chain driven and Audi would have you believe that they do not need changing, although I think some people have had them changed mainly due to tensioner (if it is noisy then it may be starting to wear). Facelift SEs also have full leather
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  8. Springer*
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    Springer* Member

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    Thanks for the reply Elan.. really useful info :thumbsup:

    Yeah, I've noticed that the manual models are much rarer. I guess it comes with the class that many owners prefer the multitronic 'box over the manual stick. I've heard good things about the manual box and I've always preferred having the additional control that it gives you. I've driven autos and I'm not a huge fan at all as it all feels a bit remote. Though I'm sure the manual override and paddle shift goes some way towards giving you that feeling of control back.

    How have each of your A6s gone on with front tyres? Do A6s eat them or are they okay? I'd imagine that the more powerful and heavier V6 engined cars must be heavy on them.

    Were both of your A6s autos or manual?

    Ahh yeah, I forgot about the switch over to Common Rail units from the PD ones in/around 2008. I knew they did this in the A4s but didn't put the two together as far the A6 was concerned :banghead: Anyway, the vastly improved emissions and fuel economy brought them more in line with the competition, even if people still complain that they can't get near the manufacturers claimed figures.

    What are the service intervals on the belts/water pump on the 2.0 by the way?

    When you say that the 170 is not dramatically different, are you saying that its not really different at all? If it is better, in what way is it? Better powerband? Better top end? Smoother?

    I think that given the spec of the A6 in general I'd want full leather at the very least. I like the dark grey/black leather mostly but I've also seen one with full cream leather and its gorgeous!

    Thanks for the info anyway...

    J:)
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  9. elan2s
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    elan2s Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    Both of my A6s (and the two 1.8T C5s before that!) were manuals. Remember when looking that only the FWD cars have the multitronic box whilst the Quattro cars have Tiptronic boxes.

    As to tyre wear my C6 had Michelins and if I recall correctly I changed the front tyres at about 22k and never changed the rears. The Pirellis on my C7 have done 13k so far and are some way off being replaced so all in all the tyre wear is very good given the size and weight of the car. Can't comment on the V6 but would expect it to be a bit hungrier due to the weight, however alot depends how and where you drive it. Lots of tyre squealing on fast B roads will wear them a lot faster than driving up and down motorways all day long.

    The official service interval on the 2.0 for belt/pump is c110k (if I remember correctly), however lots of people suggest a change at 60k/4 years for peace of mind. Whatever, at that age the car would qualify for Audi's fixed price servicing (cars over 3 years & up to 2.0) so it will currently cost £439, although that may not include the cost of the water pump.

    In day to day driving, I do not think "oh my goodness this engine is 25% more powerful than the old car". I am sure if I drove them back-to-back I would notice the difference, but in the 3 years I had the TDie I never once felt that it was underpowered, it just did what I needed it to do when asked. The 136 and the 170 are the same engine, one is just tuned more for economy/CO2 emissions. Whilst there is a 25% increase in power there is only 10% more torque for the more powerful engine and in day to day driving that is what makes the most difference. Both are just as smooth. Interestingly the C7 with the more powerful engine is delivering virtually the same fuel consumption as the C6 gave me, suggesting that weight saving etc that came with C7 are delivering benefits.

    As I said before all facelift cars of SE or above have full leather as standard, although on the S-Line there was the option of Leather with Cloth or Alcantara inserts. If you want any colour other than black you will need to get an SE as S-Line spec cars only came with black.

    If you want more info on what was offered as standard and what was an option you can download a copy of various old model brochures from the Audi website, select A6 from the Used cars tab. This is the link for the facelift A6 http://www.audi.co.uk/content/dam/audi/production/PDF/UsedCars/Refresh/A6/A6 - November 09.pdf
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  10. Springer*
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    Springer* Member

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    [Oct 3, 2013]
    As ever, thanks for the reply...

    Looks as though I'll be getting a car with the black leather then as I'm not a huge fan of the more plain styling of the SE spec cars, even though I'm sure they are still really nice.

    As far as my driving is concerned I rarely set the tyres squealing and scream my cars around, though I like to have the power there if I need it. I tend to do a mixture of town driving and the odd longer motorway jaunt and would want something that would work in both scenarios, so that's where the 3.0 is out. The 2.7 could be too potentially but has far better economy figures in town than the 3.0 litre and could probably be remapped to improve those figures further.

    I'm thinking the 2.0 170 will be the way to go if I'm honest but it all depends on how good it is on the motorway and how much of that torque you can feel and how much overtaking oomph it has up its sleeve when needed.

    Quattro for me is miles better on tyres than normal FWD. Not many people agree with me on that but I'm sure its true. Sure the drivetrain is heavier and the emissions and fuel consumption are slightly affected but for me the lack of tyre squeal (unless you're being a total plonker) and slip during harder driving helps the tyres wear more evenly and last longer. Its a shame that they don't seem to do an A6 2.0 TDi 170 Quattro because this would suit me perfectly.

    I wonder if anyone can comment on the handling differences of FWD 2.0 and 2.7 models? :think: I'd expect the 2.7 to be a lot more nose heavy as its roughly 80kgs heavier overall.

    I think whatever I went for I'd avoid Audi servicing. Simple oil and filter changes I'd carry out myself and more elaborate services like the timing belts/pumps or tensioner stuff if I opted for the V6 I'd get an independent specialist to do. For me £439 for a simple timing belt service sounds extortionate considering I had the belt and pump done on my 1.9 B6 for a little over £200.

    Its interesting how you compare the 2.0 TDie engine and the 2.0 TDi 170. I accept that essentially they are the same unit but you'd think there would be more of a difference than you describe. Like you say, once on the move it tends to be more down to the torque, which is only slighly up on the 170 engine. I guess you'd only notice the higher horsepower at the top end when really pressing on. I think this is where a remap would really make the difference.

    Good to see too that you are achieving similar economy out of the C7 too :)

    All interesting stuff this and will help a lot in my eventual decision.

    One final thing... I've seen a few facelift C6s with an all black front grille similar to the Special Edition A4s that came out in 2007/8. Not all of these A6s seem to be badged as Special Editions either as some are just S-Line or Le Mans etc. Any ideas as to why some cars had these?

    J:)
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