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Coilovers Vs Spring & Damper kit - Pros & Cons

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Ads, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. GNJ_Motorsport

    GNJ_Motorsport Site Sponsor
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    Good choice mate. Excellent springs.
     
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  3. Farhan

    Farhan Active Member

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    I have owned a few different coilovers from mid-budget ones circa 500-600 up to the good ones hitting nearly a grand.

    Simple....Look at the size of the coilover compared to the width of lowering springs and seating. Short narrow coilovers absorb shock like anything. OE dampers with a wider spring can cushion that alot better.

    Best coilovers which were comfortable KW & Tein Superstreets from my experience but one thing to note is most of these opinions dont focus on vehicle weight....The quattro guys are fine as the cars weigh more hence making the car feel solid from OE. On a FWD it just gets crashy because the cars are a bit lighter and the set ups are different.

    London roads are bad even on stock suspension you feel a bang on some of the potholes.

    EDIT:

    Ads good choice, look forward to seeing how it looks and comfort. keep me posted as its something i will do in the near future
     
    #82 Farhan, Aug 17, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
  4. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    When I spoke to AMD the guy said I only need to give them 2 days notice and they'll do it. I'm aiming for week after next, probably take a day off of work, or could do a saturday if they've got a slot.
    If you guys still wanna come down too then I don't mind doing a day that is best for everyone, i'm pretty flexible.

    And I give up on seeing reverse rake :lmfao: I'll just take your word for it! :laugh:

    Cheers Graeme. I'm actually on your site now looking at eibach prices. I'm gonna ask AMD how much they charge just for fitting the springs and if I can nick a few quid by buying from you and having them just fit then I'll be in touch mate.

    I'll let you know when i'm heading down to have them fitted. If you can't make it then i'll be posting some pics after or you can wait until ADI :eyebrows:
     
  5. Farhan

    Farhan Active Member

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    yer, let me know ads ill try head down. would be good to see. Wanted to go for a spin in your 2.0T at ace. Well arrange another meet at ace soon if not. You going edition38?
     
  6. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    I'll take you spin next time mate.
    Edition38, that's kinda soon, right?? Haven't really thought about going, but if there's a crew driving down then I'd probably be up for it.

    I wanna get this drop on first though. I've got the 'new' wheels on (I've already managed to kerb one on the outer rim edge!! :keule:) but at OEM height its looking a little moon buggy'ish.
     
  7. Hanzo

    Hanzo New Member

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    I have been down this road before with a Bora sport, which is on the same platform as the a3.

    FSD's are designed to work with stock springs.
    If you drop the car too much they wont work properly, they work based on the intensity of the stroke of the damper, harsh stroke and a valve opens which allows more oil to flow through, while under normal operation they behave as most sports dampers do. If you buy the sportline springs you will not get the full benefit of the FSD's as you will have shortened the stroke of the damper thereby changing the dynamics of the damper.

    I bought eibach pro kit springs and fitted FSD's that were made for the stock sport suspension of the bora, which is 15mm lower then standard so i dropped my car an additional 20mm. It gave the car a very good stance.
    I was running on stock 17" Longbeachs which was already uncomfortable on irish roads (makes your london roads seem like silk) so i wasnt prepared to do have anything bigger as my primary goal was function, not form and the old mcpherson suspension system doesnt really help either.

    The FSD/Eibach Pro kit was an extremely good combination, it wasnt cheap, i bought it from Larkspeed, think I paid about £500 for the dampers and £160 for the springs but holy cow could they eat up the bumps.

    After a few weeks of letting the suspension bed in, I took the car down the crappest road I could find which was bumpier then a teenagers face and the suspensions ability to soak up bumps was very impressive but still quite firm.

    Ultimately its your choice, i did alot of research before committing to the set up but it was the best compromise between function and form, had i stuck with the stock springs i'm sure the FSD's would have performed better and I can promise you that if you drop too far, you will severely diminish the FSD's capacity to perform.
     
    #86 Hanzo, Aug 18, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  8. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    Very helpful, thanks mate.

    Thinking back, all the good reviews I've heard and read about eibach/FSD combos have been with the pro kit.

    I'll have to do a bit more research into which dampers compliment the sportline springs best.

    Any suggestions/recommendations??
     
  9. Westy

    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    You still not made up your mind yet Ad :whistle2:
     
  10. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    Pathetic, innit! :happy:

    Everytime I think I've decided some other info comes along and makes me undecided again.

    Eibach Sportlines are a deffo, with my standard dampers (which I know is going to give a poor ride - but I still want to feel it for myself because if it's no 'worse' than stock Sport ride then I'll stick with it until my dampers die).
     
  11. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    Hmmmmm.

    I don't want to drop more than 15-20mm from the standard S3 ride height (I'm not 'down' + 'out' = scene!). Still tempted by FSD's, so I'm going to investigate if I can get an Eibach spring offering that kind of drop.

    Years ago I hhad some Weitec springs / dampers and they were fantastic, but since everyone in the world with a Perodua Mivvi through to an FXX has decided they MUST have coilovers (or they're gay), it seems to have diminished the range of choice on the market for springs dampers.

    Only other spring / damper combo I've really warmed to is Bilstein, but even they were slightly harsh.

    I think one of my reasons for banging on about this is there is an issue beyond stance / ride quality etc.

    The S3 has very temperamental ABS. You only need the slightest jitter in the road surface, and when you start braking you can feel it kick in prematurely. This either means the tyre is skirting the road surface due to undulation, or you have no grip, neither of which is useful as in the newest cars the ECU drops the boost on the turbo as soon as it detects slippage (therefore not only do you lose grip, you then lose power too).

    I want the suspension to be compliant enough to ride the road surface as I want as little bounce / judder / skittish activity as possible so the power keeps going down and I keep getting grip. I can understand for show cars that predominantly sit on their arches (or track cars) why you'd want something else, but for me it's about being able to give the car the best chance of applying the beans when i want them without spine surgery every other week.
     
  12. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    If the "standard - 10mm = sport -15mm = s-line - 10mm = S3" formula is correct then another 15-20mm drop on an S3 is going to be about 60-65mm lower than standard. Thats quite a drop, isn't it? And will be a good 10-25mm lower than mine on sportlines.
    From what i've seen of sportlines, going another 15-20mm and you'd start losing some of the tyre up the arches.
     
  13. jungleman

    jungleman Well-Known Member

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    ill check what days ive got off that week :)
     
  14. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    Ok mate, let me know.


    Warren - just had a quick butchers and I can only find eibach offering a pro kit for the S3, which consists of two springs to lower the front by 20mm.
     
  15. DPM

    DPM Site Sponsor
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    Yeah Eibach only offer fronts springs for the S3 8P but they do offer a different kit for the A3 8P Quattro.

    Damian @ DPM Performance
     
  16. Farhan

    Farhan Active Member

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    You do that paolo! i want to go for a spin again! your motor is baaaaaaad!!
     
  17. Farhan

    Farhan Active Member

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    Damian, So that means if we buy the eibachs it will only lower the front!??!? thats going to be weird LOL but mind you atleast i can have passengers at the back with ZERO rubbing lol
     
  18. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    Nah mate, it's only the S3 that lowers just at the front.
    For our cars it has four springs which lowers 50mm at the front and 40mm at the back.
     
  19. jungleman

    jungleman Well-Known Member

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    haha no worries mate anytime :)
     
  20. N8

    N8 Kowalski Details
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    I disagree with what AMD guys are selling, V-Maxx are very good coils for the money you pay.
     
  21. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    I asked them about v-maxx and he went into great detail about why he thinks they are no good. Something about them being made in china and even though they have all sorts of shipping costs etc added to the wholesale price, retailers can still pick them up for about £100.
    Said he can supply them but puts them in the same bracket as JOM and would never recommend them.

    His words, not mine.
     
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  23. Hanzo

    Hanzo New Member

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    may I ask what size wheels are you putting on your car and whats the width and profile?
     
  24. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    The wheels are 18", 8.5 wide, offset is ET45.
    Running 225/40/18 tyres.
     
  25. Hanzo

    Hanzo New Member

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    You want a 30-50mm drop right?

    At that much of a drop you're not going to able to use the FSD's but the Koni Sport damper does offer adjustable damping so you could adjust the damper to suit whatever spring you buy but it wont ever be as comfortable as stock. The only way you could get that level of comfort is if you went with air, which in my opinion just destroys the car.
     
  26. N8

    N8 Kowalski Details
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    I think you shud deffo try and go out in as many setups as you can. Experience is far better way to build an opinion than he say she say :wub:
     
  27. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    Its going to be 30-40mm drop on what I have.
    As long as comfort isn't significantly/noticably worse than stock then i'm ok with it.


    True true.
    It's just hard to find other A3s with all the different options. ADI would've been a good time to try out a few but I can't wait until then!



    Just spoke to ADM.... If I supply the springs then they are quoting £180 to fit them and do the alignment.
    This sounds ok to me, but anybody know what other people have paid for just having springs fitted and wheels aligned after???
    As the springs are around the £150-£160 mark, anything more than £140 for fitting and I may as well just get AMD to supply and fit for £300.

    One other thing..... having the alignment done straight after the fitting doesn't seem like the best idea to me??
    Don't the springs need time to settle first?
     
    #105 Ads, Aug 18, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  28. Ash187

    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk
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    im going to add some more confusion to this...
    i have been looking into it just a little bit and from the stance that i want to the ride quality and price i am now looking at the H&R 50mm springs. they look spot on with the Sportback on 19's...

    [​IMG]
    only thing is i don't know if i should run on stock dampers or upgrade to something else? And if i should upgrade what would go well with the H&R's?
     
  29. Hanzo

    Hanzo New Member

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    alignment is not 100% necessary. Drive the car for a week let it settle and see how it is. Eibach's don't drop the car all that much to throw things off significantly.
     
  30. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    The more I read, the more I see most people with H&R commenting that the ride is quite harsh and a bit too firm.

    If you do want to go for H&R then they do a spring and damper 'cup kit' 30mm and 50mm for about £500. I'm assuming they are "perfectly" matched as they comes as a set.
     
  31. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    The alignment is part of the price. Maybe I'll ask them if they can leave the alignment, let the car settle for a couple of weeks and then come back to have it done.
     
  32. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    Choosing suspension has to be one of the hardest things to do as it can be expensive, you can often not find a donor car to try before you buy, and if you don't like it you're stuck with it unless you sell at a loss!

    This is the problem when companies try to make a science out of everything, too many options, all far to complex. Who said too much choice was a good thing?!
     
  33. Sock

    Sock Shark in a Goldfishes clothing

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    I went for coilovers and I'm well pleased, far better than and springs I've fitted in the past

    That's my 2p's worth :)
     
  34. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    So true.
    The thing that which gives me a little comfort is that I don't do many miles (sometimes as low as 4k per year, never more than 7k) so if the ride becomes a little less comfortable than I'd like then at least it won't be a full-time back breaking experience like it would be for someone doing 15-20k per year.

    Which coilovers did you go for?
     
  35. Ash187

    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk
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  36. Hanzo

    Hanzo New Member

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    That looks very good, it would be interesting to know what dampers are being used with that setup, i have a H&R comfort kit on my mk2 GTi and its very comfortable.

    Combine that with the fact that alot of companies selling suspension systems arent technically competent to advise people on the correct choice for their needs makes it an incredibly difficult choice, unfortunately alot of guys you talk to are just working in retail shops with little to no knowledge of what they are selling.

    I made direct contact with eibach and koni when i was looking at suspension systems.

    What coilovers did you buy? What kind of roads are you driving on? What springs have you bought in the past and what dampers did you pair them with. also what wheel size/ tyres size were you running?
     
  37. Hanzo

    Hanzo New Member

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    I reckon its an attempt to correct the common issue of reverse rake on the car.
     
  38. Ash187

    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk
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    right so has anyone tried this setup? i quite like the sportback pic i put up earlier and it doesnt look like it has Reverse rake.
     
  39. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    Yeah the 50mm kit is the one I was talking about, and the one I was considering and mention in post 1.

    It's very tempting and simplifies the matching decision, but all this talk I've come across of h&r being too firm has put me off.
     
  40. Sock

    Sock Shark in a Goldfishes clothing

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    I went for a set of Vmaxx from N8

    In the past I have used Eibach springs but only on the original dampeners ( on fords )

    I have driven on all types of roads over the last few days and so far they have been spot on, they feel firmer than the standard set up but are very forgiving , on motorway and country lanes you can feel the improvement even more.

    On standard wheels ( 18's )
     
  41. Ads

    Ads License to drive

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    I struggled to find anyone who has had any of the h&r spring damper kits full stop.
    Seems people only go for springs alone.
     
  42. Lings

    Lings Active Member

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    Thats a good price fitted . Allignment cost me £60 had a load of adjustments and rechecks are £10 a shot round here.My cars to low for normal garages to sort it with lazers:(
     

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