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Chipped/IHI S3 vs V8 S4 / S4 AMD Stage III Round Track...

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by imported_ZeroK66, Mar 3, 2006.

  1. imported_ZeroK66
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    imported_ZeroK66 Guest

    [Mar 3, 2006]
    Interesting one here...

    Seems in a straight line a chipped S3 could be nearly as quick as a standard S4.

    But how about round a track... how quick is the S4. We have all seen people rave about its abilities being close to that of the M3 (Some say better) - but how does it compare to a "sorted" S3?
    #1
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  3. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    Im awaiting a reply from Dave and Glen.

    Rich
    #2
  4. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    As were waiting for Glen and David, it's probably worth pointing out that David got rid of his pretty well sorted S4 for Glens S3 which says a lot to me - if you do a search I'm sure you'll find loads of info!
    #3
  5. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    correct!
    #4
  6. robthehungrymonkey
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    robthehungrymonkey Member

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    Hmmm, very interesting question.

    Last summer I went to scotland in my (chipped) S3 with a mate and his standard 2.7 V6 S4 (B5 shape).
    We were both driving pretty hard for most of the week, and I'd say on the twistier bits I had the measure of him, and even on the straights I wasn't too far behind, I think in a straight line race the gearing on the S3 is a handicap, someone in an S4 can keep it in 2nd for an extra 20mph (approx.) which leaves a big gap to catch up by the time you're both in 3rd. However, on real roads (when you spend more time in 3rd than 2nd) it seemed to work in the S3's favour.

    A while ago I had a website in my favourites that had loads of times for the Nurburgring and Hockanheim, the S3 was quicker than the B5 S4 round the ring according to that website. Have tried to find this site numerous times since, but with no luck.

    I've no info on a V8 S4 though.
    #5
  7. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    standard s3 ring 8.41,s4 8.42
    hock s3 1.20.9 s4 1.21.1
    #6
  8. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    No time to repeat the S3 vs S4 discussion again. The S3 is on most twisty roads faster when chipped.

    My S3 was quicker round knockhill than a VERY well sorted RS4 with 540+bhp, Movit stoppers and about £8k worth of suspension work.
    #7
  9. C_Audiboy
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    C_Audiboy Vroom Vroom

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    My S3 was quicker round knockhill than a VERY well sorted RS4 with 540+bhp, Movit stoppers and about £8k worth of suspension work.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Bloody hell, who was driving the RS4? Ray Charles? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
    #8
  10. S3Steve
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    S3Steve Active Member

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    My S3 was quicker round knockhill than a VERY well sorted RS4 with 540+bhp, Movit stoppers and about £8k worth of suspension work.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Bloody hell, who was driving the RS4? Ray Charles? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think even Ray Charles in that RS4 should have been quicker than an S3 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    #9
  11. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    My S3 was quicker round knockhill than a VERY well sorted RS4 with 540+bhp, Movit stoppers and about £8k worth of suspension work.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Bloody hell, who was driving the RS4? Ray Charles? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Me. 1.5s per lap slower. Slower still with the owner at the helm.
    #10
  12. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Me. 1.5s per lap slower. Slower still with the owner at the helm.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Nice retort...

    ...and true.

    But then again, your S3 was a well sorted vehicle...not that the RS4 you speak of isn't!
    #11
  13. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    I had a chipped TT with H&R/Koni suspension so very similar to a sorted S3.

    My AMD stage 3 is much faster. It doesn't feel it though due to being naturally aspirated hence no turbo surge.

    I took a few TT owners out and they all agreed.
    #12
  14. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    Are we talking on a track?
    My ihi s3 beat your times at pod and better terminals.
    #13
  15. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    My S4 is a lot quicker than my TT on track or road. Since I did loads of track days with chipped S3's and the TT was no faster or slower, I'm suggesting that my S4 is quicker on track and actually on road than similarly tuned S3's/TTs.

    I have no experience of IHI S3s.
    #14
  16. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    My S4 is a lot quicker than my TT on track or road. Since I did loads of track days with chipped S3's and the TT was no faster or slower, I'm suggesting that my S4 is quicker on track and actually on road than similarly tuned S3's/TTs.

    I have no experience of IHI S3s.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would dispute that on the roads I drive, any S4 would be quicker than my old S3.
    The additional length and weight of the S4 work against it...and the S3 was just so usable...


    I have never come accross an Audi yet that troubles me in my 911...yet my S3 WAS quicker out of tight corners on back roads...I know this, David knows this...

    I guess it depends on the roads...on open sweeping A roads, I have no doubt the new S4 is a faster means of transport...but on the narrow twisty roads in the Scottish Highlands, I know of nothing faster than my old S3. Not the most involving, nor the most exhilerating...but damn quick & effective none the less.

    As to whether a new shape S4 would be faster round Knockhill than Dave in his (my) S3..I doubt it...the track doesn't allow the S4 to get into it's stride...if a high power RS4 is slower...I just can't see a S4 being faster.

    So, back to roads, driver skill, and the size of the drivers conkers...methinks.
    #15
  17. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    Different cars suit different situations in the same ways that a motorbike can be faster or slower than a car depending on the track.

    We could all pick a section of road that favours one or the other.

    In most situations I find the S4 quicker as power is always available. I'm never caught out by being out of the right rev range, turbo off spool etc. The huge torque also means at speed I have instant accelaration rather than winding it up.

    As I say different cars, different places, different winners.

    As an example an M3 and myself both got down on a roundabout by a Smart car once! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
    #16
  18. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    Whilst having my S3 lowered at AmD, there was a chap there with a brand new S4 having his suspension lowered aswell(he wasn't happy with the handling), we both got chatting, and took each other out in our cars after our suspension was fitted. He was impressed by my the S3's handling, I could easily go round corners 5mph quicker than his car, but on the straights, he had me licked. I'm pretty sure there's more available from the S3's chassis with a few more custom EssThree tweaks/settings in the future. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    #17
  19. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    You do have to drive them differently. The weight up front means you need to get the nose tucked in but having torsen instead of haldex does allow more predictable early power application.

    A small light car will always beat a big heavy one on very tight bits.
    #18
  20. imported_ZeroK66
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    imported_ZeroK66 Guest

    [Mar 6, 2006]
    By all of this - from waht the S3 people are saying... a chipped S3 is as quick as an M3 or even quicker on a track... mmm seems a little hard to believe is all.

    Seem to have my heart set on an S4 but I am looking at a forum members S3 in my fave ming blue... + my bird just pranged her 3 week old polo this morning - poor girl - so I have NO transport and there are NO good deals on V8's at the moment /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    #19
  21. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Mar 6, 2006]
    chipped s3 is not as quick as m3 or s4(v8) in a straight line.
    #20
  22. s3bow
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    s3bow Member

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    [Mar 6, 2006]
    Oh no. Mate has an M3 and makes me look silly.

    Chris.
    #21
  23. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 7, 2006]
    A standard S3 handles OK at best, depends on driving style, A lowered S3 makes a hell of a difference to handling though.
    #22
  24. imported_ZeroK66
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    imported_ZeroK66 Guest

    [Mar 7, 2006]
    I know in a straight line absolutely slower than an M3....

    But from track times people are quoting here - sounds that it could be as quick round a track... if the v8 S4 is deffo as quick as an M3 which some magazines seem to suggest.
    #23
  25. robthehungrymonkey
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    robthehungrymonkey Member

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    [Mar 7, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I know in a straight line absolutely slower than an M3....

    But from track times people are quoting here - sounds that it could be as quick round a track... if the v8 S4 is deffo as quick as an M3 which some magazines seem to suggest.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't remember any magazines saying that the S4 was as quick round a track (though I could be wrong), autocar even tested it in the wet and the M3 was quicker. Standard obviously.
    But, Glen's/Dave's S3 was very well sorted and pretty quick for a chipped one.
    As Glen was saying, even his C4s isn't as his S3 was in a lot of situations.
    #24
  26. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Mar 7, 2006]
    also depends what sort of track,lots of twisties or long straights sweeping corners.
    Hard to beat a e46 m3 round a track.
    #25
  27. DuncS3
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    DuncS3 Member

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    [Mar 7, 2006]
    Well here is some fuel for the debate /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Scotty filming around Castle Coombe which is a pretty high speed circuit in places and I am the subject in my chipped Black S3 with Porkers, konis, haldex ecu etc (i didnt know I was being filmed) You can see the S4 is quicker than my S3, especially up to Avon where I can hit max about 120 - GT3 I was a passenger in there recently could hit 140-145 mph - now honestly I wouldnt describe myself as a driving god but I am no slouch either - and I have done a few track days with Scotty who I would say is a good driver. When he had his TT we had a good, evenly matched day at Oulton one December, which suits the nimbler car - Took a few RS4s that day.

    I appear about 1min 25 into the video

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3257948289241806204&q=scotty+%28uk%29

    This was earlier in the day though and I was lapping quicker by the end of the day (honest), always takes me a while to get my confidence up for Camp corner - the beep going off in Scottys S4 is the 100mph indicator.

    Dunc
    #26
  28. imported_ZeroK66
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    imported_ZeroK66 Guest

    [Mar 8, 2006]
    Yours is a very sorted S3... Scotty's S4 is an AMD Stage III... so his is running closer to 400BHP.

    The S3 is very nimble round the tight corners for sure!! What would an S4 with a good suspension setup be like I wonder...

    As for comments on S4's track performance... round topgears track it was 1 second quicker than the M3... but some some mags say the M3 is quicker... down to the track I guess.
    #27
  29. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 8, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    When he had his TT we had a good, evenly matched day at Oulton one December, which suits the nimbler car

    [/ QUOTE ]Oulton was great fun and we were locked together for laps. My TT was chipped (APR), Milltek and H&R/Koni suspension. I was on standard brakes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


    [ QUOTE ]
    This was earlier in the day though and I was lapping quicker by the end of the day (honest), always takes me a while to get my confidence up for Camp corner - the beep going off in Scottys S4 is the 100mph indicator.

    [/ QUOTE ]I was lappying quicker as the day went on as well. Probably something to do with getting shot of a large amount of Super Unleaded! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #28
  30. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 8, 2006]
    p.s. Just watched it again. I wasn't really ready for you to pull over at the end !! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
    #29
  31. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 8, 2006]
    Great Vid. Just shows how a more nimble car can be hard to beat with power alone.

    Kev.
    #30
  32. DuncS3
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    DuncS3 Member

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    [Mar 8, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    p.s. Just watched it again. I wasn't really ready for you to pull over at the end !! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'd just done 76 laps, tyres were starting to go off /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Dunc
    #31
  33. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 8, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Great Vid. Just shows how a more nimble car can be hard to beat with power alone.

    Kev.

    [/ QUOTE ]As you can hear in numerous occassions I was holding off on the throttle but there's now way I could fly by. There's only one proper line and you need a huge amount of bhp/tonne difference to whizz by anyone. If you look at lap times (if we had some) it could be a couple of seconds a lap difference but in the real world it doesn't make too much difference.
    #32
  34. imported_ZeroK66
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    imported_ZeroK66 Guest

    [Mar 9, 2006]
    Oh well - my interest on this subject is tamed now as I have just bought a 2.7t S4...

    I head back to the B5 forums I suppose now

    *hangs head and walks off*
    #33

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