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Changing one tyre only

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by naefeart_A4, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. naefeart_A4
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    naefeart_A4 Bonkers

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    [Jul 23, 2008]
    Guys,

    I'm looking to replace one of my wheels (incl tyre) with a brand new wheel and tyre.

    The tyre on the car is about 2 months old and has done about 1000 miles. It will be replaced with the same brand.

    Does anyone see any problems with this? I don't want to replace tyres on both sides of the axel.

    Cheers

    N
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  3. Fraser
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    Fraser Member

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    [Jul 23, 2008]
    should be fine... usual advice i get is to put the more tread tyres on the rear so you may want to swap for a rear. if they are all about the same tread depth there is no probs really
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  4. naefeart_A4
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    naefeart_A4 Bonkers

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    [Jul 23, 2008]
    Thanks Fraser, I did wonder about this, but thought it was more relevant to FWD cars - mine is quattro.

    Can I just add that the rear tyres are the same brand, age and have covered the same mileage.

    Basically whats happened is I bought a new set of alloys and tyres litterally a month and a half - two months ago (just under 1,000 miles) and manged to curb the front left alloy. I've bought a replacement wheel fitted with a new tyre and want to change out the curbed alloy.

    I'm just worried about whether the very slight difference in thread depth between the current tyre and the new one will make a difference to the quattro system. Years ago a friend had a Vauxhall Cav Gsi 4x4 and the electronic transfer box would windup if tyres with different tread depths were used.

    I'm probably worried about nothing, but thats what these forums are for, questions, good and bad :yes:

    Cheers

    N
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  5. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 23, 2008]
    Never understood the "put more tread on the rear" advice. The fronts do 70% of the work (even on a quattro) so I know where I'd put the tread. Having said that, if all the tyres are the same age & brand then I'd put the new one on the rear purely because the rears will be less worn.
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  6. naefeart_A4
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    naefeart_A4 Bonkers

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    [Jul 23, 2008]
    Its not the front or rear debate that worries me, its having two tyres on the same axel (front or rear) with a difference in tread (even if its only a slight difference).

    Whether I put the wheel on the front or back, i'm still going to have a difference across the same axel.

    Maybe I'm over complicating this?

    N
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  7. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 23, 2008]
    A difference over 1000 miles? I really don't think that is going to even register as a difference. All tyres wear unevenly anyway to a certain miniscule extent. The nearside tyres generally cover more miles than the drivers side owing to all the roundabouts!
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  8. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 23, 2008]
    the front rear debate imo is more to do with the fact that understeer is more controllable than oversteer, and you tend to get more feedback from the front wheels

    If the front has more grip than the rear then there will be little warning from the steering when the rear tyres let go, if the rear has the better tyres then you'll feel the front beginning to lose grip and everything is more controllable.

    As for the tread difference i've never heard of issues with the quattro system and uneven tyres, i presume they have proper diffs in the transfer box. The cav turbo has a viscous coupling instead of a centre diff which overheats and burns out its oil if you run them with uneven tyres for a long time.
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  9. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Jul 23, 2008]
    Regardless of drive - front, rear or AWD, independent tests have proven the newer treads should ALWAYS been on the rear.

    I have also had the pleasure of viewing first hand tests by Michelin and Pirelli.

    It's the rears that break traction laterally, and with no steering to correct things, can be disastrous.
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  10. brendan
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    brendan 98 A4 1.8SE

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    [Jul 23, 2008]
    seeing as most a4s are nose heavy and suffer to quite an extent from understeer, would be not be advantageous to program in some oversteer (or at least minimise understeer) though? you can do it through tyre pressures, and i'm not necessarily saying it would be safe to do so with tyre choice, but i personally would prefer a loose car to a tight one. i am only used to fwd though, so for all i know understeer might be so prevalent on 4wd.
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  11. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 23, 2008]
    No, understeer is still the bane of all Audi's.
    As to the above comments, does everyone really drive their Audi's to the limit in everyday driving? I don't think so. Yes if you're going on a track day then those arguments might be valid. I'm talking everyday driving, you know, when the most dramatic thing that might happen is the guy infront brakes for no reason and you need to pull up sharply in a straight line, possibly on a damp road. In those situations fresh rubber on the fronts everytime. If you are going to make recommendations based on a Top Gear type road test where everyone is hammering the hell out of their cars and is as skilled as Colin McRae then yes I see your point. Call me old fashioned but that is not and never has been how people drive their cars.
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  12. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 24, 2008]
    i'd say even on everyday driving the rears are more important. You may be driving an unknown road with an unexpected bend or the surface may be slippier than usual and in those situations having more grip on the rear is what you want simply because you cant control or correct what the rears are doing.
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  13. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Jul 25, 2008]
    Aragorn, that's a fact.

    As Andy said, we seldom push our cars to test limits, but I have been caught out on a couple of occassions, and nearly lost my car.

    Luckily, there was nothing to break my wild pendulum charge.
    Now, I always put my deepest threads on the rear.
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  14. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 25, 2008]
    I think you'll find if you've got yourself into a situation where the rears have broken loose, the amount of tread on them will be kind of irrelevant (as long as their not bald).
    70% drive, 70% braking and all the steering, oh yes that's where I want the least tread!
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  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 25, 2008]
    the point is though, you should be driving the car to the limits of the worst tyres, not the best ones. If the worst tyres are on the front connected to the steering wheel, you can feel whats going on.

    Lets say you hit some standing water on a slight bend with your nice grippy front tyres; front will have more chance of grip than the rears, you feel the front go light and start to slip due to the water and ease off the power, the arse then steps out and you park it in a lamp post. With the grippy rears you feel the understeer thru the wheel as the fronts lose grip and theres a much higher chance of the rear staying put.

    Ok your wet streightline braking may be improved, but then wet breaking round a corner is much worse, and the likelyhood of having something unexpected happen round a corner is probably a bit higher than on a streight imo
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  16. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 25, 2008]
    So you brake and plough headfirst into the lamp post instead as your fronts are responsible for steering and most of the braking, great!
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  17. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 25, 2008]
    Well clearly you disagree on this one, but what i'm saying is the industry accepted norm: New tyres on on the rear.

    A friend of mine with a clio172 had similar thaughts to you, and stuck his new EagleF1's on the front and left the part worn ditchfinders on the rear. I told him to change it and said exactly the type of stuff you were saying. Month or so later he text me to say he'd just lost it on a damp roundabout with no warning from the steering whatsoever and spun the car 360, luckily with no damage to the car. Unsurprisingly he swapped the tyres front to rear after that.

    Simple fact is that when you start feeling understeer and remove power it will usually bring everything back into line. For most people though, oversteer results in a complete loss of control especially if the fronts still gripping nicely and had given no warning whatsoever.
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  18. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 25, 2008]
    I could have sworn clio's were front wheel drive!
    Point is you can quote as many examples as you want, but without trying the exact same manoevour in the exact same conditions it's impossible to say whether the result would have been different with the tyres reversed. Maybe without the new F1's on the front the clio would have ended up in the arnco, who knows? Clio172 going round a damp roundabout? I'm sure he wasn't hammering the hell out of it!
    Anyway we'll agree to disagree, I'll continue to enjoy superior straightline braking at my peril, and I haven't ended up in a ditch yet in 500k miles of driving. I'm obviously just not trying hard enough.
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  19. AUDI TURBO
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    AUDI TURBO Member

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    [Jul 26, 2008]
    i thought clio 172 were rear wheel drive............. or am i wrong
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  20. hiltoa
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    hiltoa VAG erfahren

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    [Jul 26, 2008]
    ? I think (hope) you are getting mixed up with the mid-engined Clio V6.
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  21. brendan
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    brendan 98 A4 1.8SE

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    [Jul 26, 2008]
    i think it's only the v6 versions that are rwd (or 4wd?) - as the engine is in the front on all other models afaik. but that's a bit beside the point isn't it?

    i prefer a tail-happy car, give me a manta all day long and i'm in sideways heaven! :)
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  22. meatychi
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    meatychi Member

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    [Dec 5, 2008]
    Interesting debate - My friend asked me whether I changed all four tyres whenever one needed changing and I replied, "don't be stupid!"

    The last time I bought a new pair of boots, from Costco's, I wanted them to fit them on the front but they said they only fit new tyres to the rear, at the time I thought this to be a tad strange and couldn't get my head around the theory behind it.

    I tend to buy second hand alloys with tyres fitted. I just change the tyre when needed and try and get the wear even across each axle as even as possible, ensuring the same manufacturer if fitted on either side.

    I would tend to agree with AndyMac and fit new tryes to the front, from a day to day driving perspective.
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  23. andybnwc
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    andybnwc Member

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    [Dec 5, 2008]
    I changed 2 rears ,and after 20 miles or so and didnt know they was still slippy , i went round a slight bend in the wet at 60ish and felt it let go it was like ice once it went i just had to ride it out even tho i was under control had there been a car on the inside lane would of got my back bumper in its door . You cant snap it back on a road it will end in disaster.
    Point is you cant always feel the rear until its too late , fronts you can and if your driving properly shouldnt be a problem to sort out.
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  24. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 5, 2008]
    Many years ago i was driving my brothers first car, a vauxhall nova, while my car was off the road. The exit ramp off the local dual carriageway is a long sweeping left hand bend that loops back round under the carriageway, and is a piece of road that i'd drive everyday. Was driving this nova round there one day and it was clearly a little more greasy/slippy than i expected, half way round i felt the tiniest of twitches/lightness thru the steering wheel and before i could contemplate reacting the back end stepped out. By some miracle there was nothing near me on the road, and instead of opposite locking it to try and hold/correct it, i turned into the skid and the car did a 360 and ended up on the hard shoulder pointing the correct way with no damage.

    Having less grip on the rear of a car is extremely dangerous as the above example shows, the steering wheel felt completely fine, and even when it did go onto the slippy patch it just got ever so slightly light. The rear however with less grip, let go and put the car into a spin. Had there been anything beside or behind me i'd have taken it out and probably caused injuries.

    Putting grippier tyres on the front specifically so you can utilise their extra grip is even more silly, because it means your likely to push the car even further past the limits of the rears without any feedback from them.
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  25. meatychi
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    meatychi Member

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    [Dec 5, 2008]
    Aragorn - Would you say that the same applies to 4wd's?
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  26. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 5, 2008]
    yep, because you still have no control over what the rear is doing and you cant feel whats going on back there.

    Most cars are designed to understeer first as a safety mechanism when driven by people who dont know anything about cars on their limits. Most peoples first instinct when a car does something unexpected (be it understeer or oversteer) is to jam the brakes on. Now if you have nice sticky tyres on the front, it means two things, one, its now more likely to oversteer unexpectedly has the front has more grip, and two, if it does understeer and you stamp on the brakes the weight transfer onto the sticky fronts and off the non-sticky rears means the rear is more likely to step out.
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  27. dieselfitter251
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    dieselfitter251 Blow ma own trumpet?

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    [Dec 5, 2008]
    I always used to put new boots on the front 'til I got stinky.... woo!!!! That changed. My experience is that the rear wear out quicker than the fronts on the q's so when I get new rubber it always goes on the rear i.e. put the fresher front rubber on the rear and the older rubber on the front, which will still goes before the newer rubber on the rear and then when the rubber that's now on the front does go put new rubber on the rear and the existing rear rubber on the front. Sounds a bit arse about tit but I have consistant responce. Or to put it more simply, when the front rubber's on the way put the rear on the front and get the ew rubber on the rear...ahhhhh HECK.... I know what I mean!!!!!!! :banghead:

    rubber rubber rubber, front rubber, rubber front rear, rear front rubber rubber rubber front rear rubber rubber front rubber rear rubber front rear rubber rubber rubber.....

    ....and I'm not even stoned or pissed!!!!!
    #26

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