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Changing from AVS

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by funguf, May 26, 2007.

  1. funguf
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    funguf Sunday Driver

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    [May 26, 2007]
    Hi Guys,

    My car is currently on AVS and I plan to get the technicians to swtich to interval when it is in the shop next. I'm wondering but do I need them to do an oil change at the same time?

    Thanks!
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  3. d3fy
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    d3fy Active Member

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    [May 26, 2007]
    Yeah i think you do, they will only make the change to 10k service if its getting a service at the time
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  4. funguf
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    funguf Sunday Driver

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    [May 26, 2007]
    So in essence I'm restarting the counter for the annual service? Is anything else required apart from oil change? I bought the car from Audi with 7600 miles have now done 9600 miles and am planning to get them to change to interval.
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  5. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [May 26, 2007]
    You can change to fixed servicing yourself, it states how in the manual.
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  6. rich1068
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    rich1068 Member

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    [May 26, 2007]
    Yep, take it in around 10k, have the service with standard oil and either get them to reset it to fixed or do it your self as A4Quattro says.

    It would be interesting to see how much your first service will be. Standard vs. Long Life oil and all.
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  7. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [May 26, 2007]
    sorry but the first thing that springs to my mind is why?
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  8. JamS3
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    JamS3 Active Member

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    [May 27, 2007]
    Because some people don't like the idea of doing 16-18k on the same oil which I don't care what Audi say is not good for a car.

    My previous 8L S3 went nearly 2 YEARS on the same oil and was told this is fine by the dealer, the car will tell you when it needs a service.

    I'll be putting mine on fixed I think and then i know the oil is being changed every 10k.
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  9. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [May 27, 2007]
    you make me laugh! why would audi allow you to do it if it wasn't good for your car?? jeeez as if motoring wasn't expensive/awkward enough you guys wanna make it more expensive and more messing about!!! Oil technology has come on a lot - and i for one - believe that an audi oil change every two years is sufficient to keep engine wear low (at least for the time i own the car) after that i dont really care!!!!!!

    Fine do what you want - but you are wsting your time but please dont think you are treating your car 'better' than the people who have is serviced to 'audis schedule of 2 years' cos you simply are no better off full stop. Except of course having some little scrote at audi fiddling about in your 30k car twice as often as you require.

    I'm quite happy for the fact that i plan on keeping my car for two years and in that time, all being well it will go into the garage ONCE for ONE service then its gone.
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  10. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [May 28, 2007]
    sorry steve, but i dont care how much oil technology has moved on....

    2 year old oil, in a 2 litre turbo charged engine running over 200bhp isnt a great idea..... no matter what audi say.

    ive had my 1.8T 8l for a year now, and ive covered 17000 miles, in that time, ive changed the oil 3 times. so roughly every 6000 miles.

    in the turbo engines the oil seems to go pretty black pretty fast, so its nice to change it more frequently.

    sure, it may not be necessary in my 190bhp 1.8T, but in an S3, pushing 265bhp, i certainly wouldnt feel safe running oil over 10k old.........
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  11. rich1068
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    rich1068 Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    ^^ I think a change at 6k is going a bit but I do agree. I had my last car changed to 'fixed' for more or less those reasons. My current A3 is on variable but it's only because a) I do so much town driving it's more or less 10k when the indicator comes on, certainly much less than a year and b) if I can avoid taking it to the stealer for a few weeks then I will. If the car was my own it would be on fixed and it would go to a specialist independent.

    Reading the American Audi forums I notice variable isn't used over there at all. Their dealers recommend a first oil change at 5k then 10k and every 10k after that. How come Audi of America don't have as much faith in new 'oil technology'?
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  12. d3fy
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    d3fy Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Probably because, a) litigation and b) Americans are thick as fck :)
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  13. coupe-se
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    coupe-se Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    I have no worries about my diesel being on AVS....... why?

    Vans/Commercial vehicles have been running on his for years. Vans are driven hard every day of their lives and carry heavy loads. These vans rack up 3 to 4 times the mileage a car would year in year out and any company demands a reliable vehicle.

    IF AVS was sooo bad for an engine the commercial sector would have found this out long ago and we would all know about it.

    Car manufacturers spend millions £'s developing their cars and engines, if AVS was a risk to the engines and the good name of their product it would not be available.

    Mitsubishi Evo has oil changes every 5k, yet a Subaru STi with similar power output has oil changes every 10k. Should Subaru be ignored and STi owners change the oil based on Mitsu's ethos OR should STi owners trust Subaru who developed and manufactured that engine?

    Just my thoughts!:tapedshut:
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  14. marklad2020
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    marklad2020 1st Gear

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    [May 28, 2007]
    I read somewhere (cant be bothered to find the link right now) that all oil goes black fairly soon after it is changed, and that the colouration has nothing to do with its effectiveness so I wouldn't worry about changing it just because it is black.

    And why would American Audi dealers reccommend fixed servicing - something to do with making more money?

    I would be very very surprised if motor manufacturers would endorse something like AVS if they thought this would have a detrimental effect on thier products, and I think they are in a better position to judge this?
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  15. Dandle
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    Dandle Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Cars only reach 15-18k miles on AVS if they do long runs which isnt as bad for the oil as it gets to its proper operating temp most of the time. A lot of stop start runs where it never really warms up properly will bring the AVS right down, my car had its first AVS at about 9k miles which took about 54weeks to get there.
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  16. JamS3
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    JamS3 Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Sorry but you must be having a laugh if you think having the same oil in a car that has done 18k on it and nearly 2yrs will do a car any good.

    I don't think anyone is saying there will be a massive failure of the engine and it will blow up but who knows what damage it will be causing that will appear over the long term ie when the milage gets high, will it be reliable as fixed service cars?

    Its just a massive marketing gimmick that Audi cars go longer so spend more money on one and you will save money on servicing.
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  17. Dandle
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    Dandle Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Probably wont make any difference at all, if my car was on fixed service the oil would be changed about the same time and a lower spec oil would be going into it. The days of needing oil changes at 6-8k miles are pretty much gone, oils have moved on from mineral to synthetic and engine tollarences are much tighter. The oils just dont break down like they used to and engines dont wear like they used to. Black in the oil is just carbon and doesnt mean the oil is knackered.

    Lots of car companies are starting to run AVS service schedules and commercial vehicles have been using it for years(they get alot less care and driver thought than most privately owned cars).

    That said if your happy then fair enough:).
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  18. JamS3
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    JamS3 Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    As far as I'm aware the oil that the dealer uses is just the same for either fixed or variable, just comes out the same drum in the workshop. I've seen it with my own eyes!
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  19. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]

    course it will - a company like audi wouldn't allow you to do this just on a whim you know???? believe it or not they will have tested it - they have facilities that can put an engine through a lifetime of use/abuse in the space of a few weeks probably so yes they will have tested this and found that using the special oil that has been developed is just as good as 'lesser quality oil' for short periods. And yes the colour of the oil is completely irrelevant to whether it needs changing or not black oil can still be perfectly fine.

    I find it ludicrous though that you think that one day when i come to sell my car and you come to sell yours you are going to think that you have looked after your car better than AVS users. What rubbish - you are no better off.

    Power also has nothing whatsoever to do with oil changes in its own right. A 100bhp 1.2 16v has the same configuration and number of moving parts as a 200bhp 2.0 16v turbo - the amount of friction in the two engines is identical - their power output is irrelevant. The only thing in this example where there is extra friction i guess is because the addition of a turbo - big deal - thats not going to make that much difference!!!

    In my job we do brochures for DAF trucks - come of these machines cost up to £100k and so need to be on the road making money as much as is legal/possible - these can go 150,000kms between services so your not telling me a modern car engine with the lastest oil is gonna strucggle doing 20,000???
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  20. S3-ROB
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    S3-ROB RD350YPVS - Loves 2 stroke oil

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Can't agree with that, thats like saying a Renault clio can go 20000 miles between oil changes and a Bugatti Veyron will be fine aswell

    Performance turbo engines run hotter internally, normally rev higher, the people who buy them drive them harder than a basic model so need extra maintenance

    I would never use long life servicing personally, if you buy the car new and plan on selling it after 3 years then maybe but not for me

    I change the oil every 6 months in my S3 and the oil is still clean and clear when drained

    Not trying to cause an arguement here and i'm not saying i'm right, its just my opinion :icon_thumright:
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  21. S3-ROB
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    S3-ROB RD350YPVS - Loves 2 stroke oil

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    [May 28, 2007]
    I agree completely
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  22. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Not really, a 1.2 non turbo doesn't have a turbo and a 2.0 turbo does have a turbo. Engines with turbos generally have hotter oil and are more performance oriented, this equates to hotter oil, which means it doesn't last as long.
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  23. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    No offence,but 200bhp from 2000cc isn't exactly a highly stressed engine !
    Bikes are approaching 200bhp from 1000cc in fully street-legal trim and have piston speeds that cars can only dream of.
    A 180bhp+ bike will regularly rev to 13000rpm plus.
    Even then,you only need the change the oil every 3000 miles or so.
    Changing the oil every 6000 miles in a car with such a low state of tune as 200bhp from 2000cc is just throwing your money away.
    But hey,it's your money !

    **** oil,regular changes.
    Good oil,don't bother.
    It's as simple as that really.
    Anyone who uses good oil and still changes regularly is mad.

    Going by colour is also misguided.
    Oil should be black.
    That means it's doing it's job,suspending '****' in itself.
    If you change the oil and it's still clean,you're changing it way too soon.

    It's the old 'posh dog food' scenario though.
    There are people who will convince themselves it makes a difference,or it makes them feel better about themselves.

    A marketing man's dream !!
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  24. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [May 28, 2007]
    gotta agree with rob on this one.....

    the whole 'audi said it so it must be right' means sodd all to me.

    they could have stuck a massive rear ARB on my A3 to make it go round corners properly, they could have mapped it properly to start with so it goes like it should, but they didnt.

    my oil gets changed every 6 months without fail, i did it soon after i got the car, i did it after 6 months, and ive just done it recently.

    my other car (1380 hillclimb mini) gets its oil changed every 3000miles MAX.

    im sorry, but i wouldnt want to buy a car thats been on AVS at all, the thought of any more than 10k on the same oil, in a high performance turbo engine is just stupid.
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  25. S3-ROB
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    S3-ROB RD350YPVS - Loves 2 stroke oil

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Partly agree but because i do regular oil changes my engine doesn't get a build up of '****' and the oil stays cleaner for longer, the internal sludge that builds up without regular changes can at worst block oil ways and the oil pump pick-up pipe leading to oil starvation

    Not everything Audi recommend is accurate, they told me i didn't need a cambelt change till 115000 miles, belt snapped at 86000, full service history at the supplying dealer, cost £2120 to fix but at least it was still under warranty :icon_thumright:
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  26. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    That's taking things to extremes.
    That ain't going to happen under AVS mileages using AVS oil,is it now.
    Anything more is overkill,pure and simple.
    If it makes people feel better though,there's no harm can come from it.
    No gain either,I bet you.
    Strip two identically driven Audi engines,one serviced at AVS intervals and one serviced excessively and I bet you wouldn't be able to measure the difference.
    A fool and his money though...
    #25
  27. S3-ROB
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    S3-ROB RD350YPVS - Loves 2 stroke oil

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    [May 28, 2007]
    No it shouldn't happen using AVS and yes i was a bit extreme but i still think AVS is a bad idea, i'm a mechanic/MOT tester so have a reasonable knowledge of cars and my opinion is not to use AVS but as said its just an opinion and not everyone will agree :icon_thumright:
    #26
  28. S3-ROB
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    S3-ROB RD350YPVS - Loves 2 stroke oil

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Being in the trade it only costs me £15 to change the oil using a genuine Audi filter and Castrol oil which is Audi approved so at £15 every 6 months its not really a problem money wise ;)
    #27
  29. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    no not much money at all, but £15 a year MORE than what you need to spend - because it isn't going to make the slightest difference to your cars performance or longevity.

    And if you read above i compared a 1.2 16v 4cyl with a 2.0 16v 4cyl - not a clio engine with a bugatti veyron which is obviously quite different - but the two examples i gave have very little differnce internally, baring as i also said the addition of a turbo.
    #28
  30. S3-ROB
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    S3-ROB RD350YPVS - Loves 2 stroke oil

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    [May 28, 2007]
    No difference to the performance your probably right

    No difference to engine life, in my opinion your wrong, the engine will do more miles and have a longer life

    If i was to buy a new car and change it after 3 years then i would use AVS but the cars i buy i can't afford new, most i could really spend is £15000, i bought my S3 at 4 years old, if it had been on AVS i wouldn't have bought it but it had been standard serviced so i did, what i'm getting at is its people like me who buy used cars and keep them many years who will suffer from a car on AVS as i think it reduces engine life, hope that all makes sense ;)
    #29
  31. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [May 28, 2007]
    In summary, if you change your oil more often then you will add life to your engine.
    If 2 engines driven identically had their oil changed one at AVS and one at every 10k then the 10k would show less wear.
    #30
  32. S3-ROB
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    S3-ROB RD350YPVS - Loves 2 stroke oil

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Yes thats what i was trying to get at :icon_thumright:

    Anyway i'm gonna leave it at that, i'm new to the site and don't want to make enemies or upset anyone, my comments are only personal opinion which we're all entitled to and we all treat our cars in different ways

    :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye:
    #31
  33. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Damn right, your opinion is entirely yours, some people like to argue for arguement's sake.

    keep up the good work
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  34. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    yes of course everyone is entitled to opinions. Mine is that AVS is no worse for your engine than fixed 10k oil changes.

    I would be happy to buy a 10 year old audi with 150k on the clock if it showed all 5 of the AVS stamps in the book (or however many services it needed in that time) i would be perfectly confident in that car.
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  35. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [May 28, 2007]
    really?

    i can see where your comming from steve, just the sound of a car thats done 150 000 miles, thats around the world 5 times., and only been serviced 5 times?

    surely thats a scary thought?
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  36. Dandle
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    Dandle Member

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    [May 29, 2007]
    Thats not true because under the AVS schedule my cars service is 9k miles due to the journeys it does. I would be doing another 1000 miles if i moved to fixed servicing. AVS does work out the state of the oil as can been seen by my service intervals.
    #35
  37. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [May 29, 2007]
    What sort of Journeys do you do then, full throttle all the way?
    #36
  38. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 29, 2007]
    Baseless speculation.
    #37
  39. JamS3
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    JamS3 Active Member

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    [May 29, 2007]
    If AVS is THAT good and saves us good customers so much money and looks after the car so well then why do Audi still offer fixed servicing?

    Why don't they put every single car on AVS and offer no other option?

    I think its just a big marketing ploy for the company car buyer so companies think they are saving money over other brands on servicing.
    #38
  40. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [May 29, 2007]
    Not baseless nor speculation.
    Don't use big words just to try and illustrate a worthless point
    #39
  41. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 29, 2007]
    Prove your point then.
    Go on,give me evidence changing the oil more regularly is better for the car than the AVS schedule.
    Proper evidence,not pub hearsay or your own opinion.

    Unless you can produce evidence,it is speculation.
    #40

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