Car struggles to start

MikeCrum1996

MikeCrum1996

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I made a post a while ago about my car not starting properly takes about 6seconds to start..
Basically I had two valves replaced and ever since I had car returned it's had this problem of struggle to start, stinks of petrol slight loss in performance..

Thanks to Woorlord for scanninng my car for me.
After resetting the fault codes I had 1 fault code.
17748 - Camshaft position sensor (G40) / Engine speed sensor (G28)
P1340 - 35-00 - Incor. Correlation
Readiness: 0110 1001

That's the only code stored after resetting it..

Audi A3 8L 1.8t Aum engine

Any help greatly appreciated.
 
Cam belt is a tooth or more out... garage that did the valves haven't set the timing correctly when putting the head back on so take it back for them to sort out

<tuffty/>
 
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that is the exact issue I had and then additionally an occasional "past maximum retardation point"

it can be rectified by only removing the lower pulley wheel and timing covers and by loosening the damper - so they don't need to go through the whole rig-ma-roll of removing the engine mount I was lucky I guessed the right direction but it is pretty obvious when looking at the marker on the head.
 
<tuffty/> said:
Cam belt is a tooth or more out... garage that did the valves haven't set the timing correctly when putting the head back on so take it back for them to sort out

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
I don't really trust him to do it again.. how much would a garage cost
 
Stuart B said:
that is the exact issue I had and then additionally an occasional "past maximum retardation point"

it can be rectified by only removing the lower pulley wheel and timing covers and by loosening the damper - so they don't need to go through the whole rig-ma-roll of removing the engine mount I was lucky I guessed the right direction but it is pretty obvious when looking at the marker on the head.
Click to expand...
I just looked at the lower pulley there are only 2 bolts out of 4 seems they're 2 bolts missing.. it's has one big one in the centre n two at the bottom and none at the top ?
 
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Need to get that sorted... Needs all 4... Shoddy workmanship

<tuffty/>
 
And the pulley is not orientated correctly as you couldn't get bolts in if you had them anyway

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
And the pulley is not orientated correctly as you couldn't get bolts in if you had them anyway

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
Do you think this is the cause for the fault code? Or would the timing still be off ?
 
MikeCrum1996 said:
Do you think this is the cause for the fault code? Or would the timing still be off ?
Click to expand...
Thats not the cam belt pulley... timing is still out....

Basically... the damper pulley without its bolts will eventually shear off from not being held square on the crank pulley and will make quite a mess if you are at a decent rpm...

I wouldn't be driving the car hard until its fixed but considering what a shoddy job they have done I'd be wary of driving it at all...

Getting the belt a tooth out is surprisingly easy to do but if you don't check it after fitment (as they should) you don't pick it up until the engines running and then you need to scan to see it..

Not surprised at the belt as I have done it myself but there is no excuse for the pulley... needs to be the correct hardness bolts too so you can't just fit anything...

Cheap enough to get from a dealer in fairness

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
Thats not the cam belt pulley... timing is still out....

Basically... the damper pulley without its bolts will eventually shear off from not being held square on the crank pulley and will make quite a mess if you are at a decent rpm...

I wouldn't be driving the car hard until its fixed but considering what a shoddy job they have done I'd be wary of driving it at all...

Getting the belt a tooth out is surprisingly easy to do but if you don't check it after fitment (as they should) you don't pick it up until the engines running and then you need to scan to see it..

Not surprised at the belt as I have done it myself but there is no excuse for the pulley... needs to be the correct hardness bolts too so you can't just fit anything...

Cheap enough to get from a dealer in fairness

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
So I can't use any bolt that's the same size and length? Or does it have to be from a dealer? Also how much would it cost do you think for a garage to realign the belt?
 
I bought cap heads from halfords when I had one needing replacing ( but I bet they sheared them off removing them hence why only two fitted), the original garage should adjust the belt it will take them 1 or 2 hours.
On a ramp undo 2(instead of 4) pulley bolts
Unclip top timing cover
Undo mid timing cover
Undo lower timing cover
Press damper
Mark belt and cam +/- 1 tooth
Hop belt forward or back
Release damper
Return mid and lower covers
Return lower pully
Return aux belt
 
Stuart B said:
I bought cap heads from halfords when I had one needing replacing ( but I bet they sheared them off removing them hence why only two fitted), the original garage should adjust the belt it will take them 1 or 2 hours.
On a ramp undo 2(instead of 4) pulley bolts
Unclip top timing cover
Undo mid timing cover
Undo lower timing cover
Press damper
Mark belt and cam +/- 1 tooth
Hop belt forward or back
Release damper
Return mid and lower covers
Return lower pully
Return aux belt
Click to expand...
Press damper? I'm confused what you mean by that? Also I haven't got to remove the engine mount ?
 
The timing belt position might be correct, the chain on the the end of the cams might be wrongly positioned as they would have had the cams out to replace the valves.


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I spy a mechanic with a big spare parts bin. Known a few like this, and he's had the head off. VW stuff is one time use bolt and stud wise...did he use new? Get it checked if not known.

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QuattroCalum said:
The timing belt position might be correct, the chain on the the end of the cams might be wrongly positioned as they would have had the cams out to replace the valves.


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Click to expand...
So in other words it's going to cost a arm n leg to fix this problem? If they have to take the head off again?
 
MikeCrum1996 said:
So in other words it's going to cost a arm n leg to fix this problem? If they have to take the head off again?
Click to expand...

If what I suspect has happened it can be corrected without head removal.


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QuattroCalum said:
The timing belt position might be correct, the chain on the the end of the cams might be wrongly positioned as they would have had the cams out to replace the valves.


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Click to expand...
Different fault code for cam to cam typically ... Normally get a cam sensor short to ground (as odd as it sounds) code...

Given the workmanship of the repair though it's probably worth getting cam to cam checked as a precaution...

<tuffty/>
 
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Could have the cam chain on correctly but the pointers out of position meaning cans are over advanced or over retarded, wouldn't that give incorrect correlation?


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For that to happen they would have needed to have removed the cam position trigger wheel and put it on wrong but its keyed and can't see why they would have done that... (although who knows considering how well it was put back together in the first place)

In my experience getting a tooth out on the cam chain throws a G40 short to ground code... can't recall if there are supporting correlation codes or setpoint not reached codes (the other typical valve train related fault codes) as its been a while since I have seen this...

Cambelts are easy to get a tooth wrong... exhaust cam at TDC has just enough loading from the springs to rotate back if not checked...

Everytime I have seem the OP's code it will be the cambelt... unless the garage got everything so wrong that this has been triggered by a combo I have not seen before

<tuffty/>
 
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audi upgrades
<tuffty/> said:
For that to happen they would have needed to have removed the cam position trigger wheel and put it on wrong but its keyed and can't see why they would have done that... (although who knows considering how well it was put back together in the first place)

In my experience getting a tooth out on the cam chain throws a G40 short to ground code... can't recall if there are supporting correlation codes or setpoint not reached codes (the other typical valve train related fault codes) as its been a while since I have seen this...

Cambelts are easy to get a tooth wrong... exhaust cam at TDC has just enough loading from the springs to rotate back if not checked...

Everytime I have seem the OP's code it will be the cambelt... unless the garage got everything so wrong that this has been triggered by a combo I have not seen before

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
I really hope it's just a tooth out save all the hassle
 
MikeCrum1996 said:
Press damper? I'm confused what you mean by that? Also I haven't got to remove the engine mount ?
Click to expand...

you need to push the auto-adjuster dampener down using a 5mm threaded rod and nut this gives the slack on the timing belt to remove from the lower pulley (in my case and then I turned the lower pulley forward by one tooth and put the belt back on again - you don't need to remove the engine mount to do that.
 
Stuart B said:
you need to push the auto-adjuster dampener down using a 5mm threaded rod and nut this gives the slack on the timing belt to remove from the lower pulley (in my case and then I turned the lower pulley forward by one tooth and put the belt back on again - you don't need to remove the engine mount to do that.
Click to expand...
I attempted it today but I couldn't find the lower timing marks so I gave up and put it back together, I'm booked in a garage on Friday see what they can do I will update once I know anything
 
<tuffty/> said:
For that to happen they would have needed to have removed the cam position trigger wheel and put it on wrong but its keyed and can't see why they would have done that... (although who knows considering how well it was put back together in the first place)

In my experience getting a tooth out on the cam chain throws a G40 short to ground code... can't recall if there are supporting correlation codes or setpoint not reached codes (the other typical valve train related fault codes) as its been a while since I have seen this...

Cambelts are easy to get a tooth wrong... exhaust cam at TDC has just enough loading from the springs to rotate back if not checked...

Everytime I have seem the OP's code it will be the cambelt... unless the garage got everything so wrong that this has been triggered by a combo I have not seen before

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
How do I find the lower timing marks I see one on the pulley but I don't under stand how that transfers to the crank pulley?,. Also I spoke to someone yesterday and he was certain if it was one tooth out I would have no valves left? Who do I listen to.. I'm getting mixed messages from everyone
 
It can be a tooth out and still run, just means the valve timing is out but not by enough to bend valves. There's a notch on the bottom pulley and a mark on the lower timing cover, give it a clean with a rag, could be obscured by dirt.

Have a look at this how to, it says for a4 1.8t but it's the same engine regardless of which chassis it's in.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...acement/09-ENGINE-Timing_Belt_Replacement.htm


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Last edited:
QuattroCalum said:
It can be a tooth out and still run, just means the valve timing is out but not by enough to bend valves. There's a notch on the bottom pulley and a mark on the lower timing cover, give it a clean with a rag, could be obscured by dirt.


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Click to expand...
i thought that but he seemed certain he tried telling me it's an o2 sensor.......... kill me, I can seem the timing marks on the cover and pulley but how does that line up with the sprocket?
 
That's shocking workmanship by the garage you have taken it too. To leave two bolts off like that is asking for trouble. There is every chance at some point in the future that pulley will detach itself from the engine and you will be looking at a very big bill to repair it.
Find yourself a good independent who knows what they are doing. where abouts in the country are you ? .
 
desertstorm said:
That's shocking workmanship by the garage you have taken it too. To leave two bolts off like that is asking for trouble. There is every chance at some point in the future that pulley will detach itself from the engine and you will be looking at a very big bill to repair it.
Find yourself a good independent who knows what they are doing. where abouts in the country are you ? .
Click to expand...
I'm taking to a garage tomorrow who a lot of people I know recommended him but I'll have to wait and see..
I'm in Clacton-on-sea mate
 
unfortunately all the images people posted when I asked the question were in photobucket so are gone now.

but with the lower pulley and aux belt removed you can see essentially a marker and bump which need to be aligned above the lower pulley - but you put a wooden spoon in cylinder 1 and turn the engine until the wooden spoon is at its highest and then check the marker and bump as there is a tiny bit of extra movement before the spoon starts coming down again. but you should mark the belt and pulleys to make sure it is only moved forwards or backwards one tooth. then turn the engine over with a spanner 4 times at the lower pulley and the marking should match up again. you don't want the damper loosened too much as you only want the belt slack enough to remove the belt at the bottom. it is easy to get the belt on again by rotating the lower pulley anti clockwise a tiny bit rather than pulling the belt around tight (hence the marking I actually tie wrapped the belt to the top pulley to stop it moving whilst I was under the car.

I think the reason it is often out by a tooth is the top pulley TDC is actually under spring loading so relaxes back a touch.
 
UPDATE:
I took it to a garage he was having look and started it and said it's definitely an over retarded tooth.. gotta wait till Tuesday to have it done but he said it's only an hour n half labour.. not bad
 
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Stuart B said:
unfortunately all the images people posted when I asked the question were in photobucket so are gone now.

but with the lower pulley and aux belt removed you can see essentially a marker and bump which need to be aligned above the lower pulley - but you put a wooden spoon in cylinder 1 and turn the engine until the wooden spoon is at its highest and then check the marker and bump as there is a tiny bit of extra movement before the spoon starts coming down again. but you should mark the belt and pulleys to make sure it is only moved forwards or backwards one tooth. then turn the engine over with a spanner 4 times at the lower pulley and the marking should match up again. you don't want the damper loosened too much as you only want the belt slack enough to remove the belt at the bottom. it is easy to get the belt on again by rotating the lower pulley anti clockwise a tiny bit rather than pulling the belt around tight (hence the marking I actually tie wrapped the belt to the top pulley to stop it moving whilst I was under the car.

I think the reason it is often out by a tooth is the top pulley TDC is actually under spring loading so relaxes back a touch.
Click to expand...
I've just got my car back from a garage and he said the timing was a tooth out I thought great problem solved also he replaced all missing bolts.. everything lined up so I went to pick it up and now the cars worse it doesn't be even start now literally takes 4-5 attempts to get I think started once started it sounds ok but when I took it for a test drive the power has decreased like 50% it doesn't even feel like a turbo anymore.. he thinks it's the cam position sensor gonna cost me £30 to replaced that.

Any thoughts?

Also he said there is oil in my boost pipes? And my pancake pipe?
 
MikeCrum1996 said:
I've just got my car back from a garage and he said the timing was a tooth out I thought great problem solved also he replaced all missing bolts.. everything lined up so I went to pick it up and now the cars worse it doesn't be even start now literally takes 4-5 attempts to get I think started once started it sounds ok but when I took it for a test drive the power has decreased like 50% it doesn't even feel like a turbo anymore.. he thinks it's the cam position sensor gonna cost me £30 to replaced that.

Any thoughts?

Also he said there is oil in my boost pipes? And my pancake pipe?
Click to expand...

Cam position sensor is cheap and only two bolts, don't pay him for that do it yourself, did he scan for codes after?


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QuattroCalum said:
Cam position sensor is cheap and only two bolts, don't pay him for that do it yourself, did he scan for codes after?


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Click to expand...
He said he was getting same fault code as when he started so cam position sensor.. how much are these sensors?.. also oil in boost pipes he said ? Is that normal
 
MikeCrum1996 said:
If I replace the sensor and the problem persists what would be my next step of action?
Click to expand...

Get it scanned first and find out the actual code. There's more to this story than meets the eye I think.


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QuattroCalum said:
Get it scanned first and find out the actual code. There's more to this story than meets the eye I think.


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Click to expand...
I watched him do it all that comes up Is still 17748.. he resets it start it back up boom code comes straight back up
 
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