1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Car cut out, won't turn over. Help!

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by DavidW, Feb 12, 2011.

  1. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    My girlfriend was driving the car (2001 AMK S3) this morning when it cut out on her. I've gone to look at it and when you try and start there is a whining noise which i'm guessing is just the starter motor, it doesn't seem like the engine is turning over at all. There are no warning lights on dash.
    I've checked the oil and it's showing nothing on the stick however there is/was no oil warning light on the DIS. I also topped the oil up about two weeks ago. I can't see any obvious leaks, sump looks intact and there is nothing on street where it is usually parked or anywhere she has been this morning.

    What do you think? Has it seized due to lack of oil? What else would cause the engine to cut out then not to turn?

    Urgent help much appreciated as she needs the car for work this weekend.
    #1
  2. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    Further to the original, there was no noise/loss of power before it went and she pulled over in gear so I'm guessing not seized. Cambelt snap?
    #2
  3. finesse
    Offline

    finesse Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,811
    Likes Received:
    10
    hmm worth poping over to a local mech for pointers or can you get access to vagcom?
    #3
  4. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm waiting for someone to pick me up then we'll tow it to the local garage, just looking for any opinions before that. Bracing myself for the worst to be honest, cambelt snaps (if that's what it is) never end well.
    #4
  5. future
    Offline

    future Scuderia Vittoria Edition 001

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    31
    to be honest it could be alot of things, i had very similair symptons on my old car and it was the fuel pump and relay so might be worth checking? hope it goes ok
    #5
  6. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ok, taken cambelt cover off belt is intact, if I put a socket on the top pulley I can turn the engine over manually. Then if I turn it with the key it turns a bit then gets stuck again. I noticed when I took the silver pipe off that runs over the belt cover (charge pipe?) their is some fresh oil in. Is this normal?

    I think the next step is to bring the oil back up to level and crank it over by hand, then see if it'll start off the starter. Is it dangerous to use the top pulley, it seems easier than getting down onto the crank?
    #6
  7. aragorn
    Online

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,531
    Likes Received:
    301
    you shouldnt really use the top pulley.

    If it was timing belt or the crank woodruff key, i'd expect the engine to go "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" rather than "wubwubwubwubwub" when trying to start it.
    #7
  8. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    It makes a constant fairly high pitched noise when starting with the key but the belt is not going round. Is it possible for whatever connects the crank to the pulley/belt to break? When I moved it by hand then started with key it did move the belt and make a sound as though it was going to start, then the belt stuck again.
    #8
  9. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ok, closer inspection shows that while the belt is in one piece it doesn't have all its teeth, a section about 4" long is now flat. Is it fair to say this is curtains for the head? The garage didn't even want to touch it, they just said to get a replacement head and they'd fit that.
    #9
  10. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    728
    Sorry to hear that mate no point wondering....get the head off and see what damage there is...
    #10
  11. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    How hard is it to remove the head. I'm a fairly practical person with some mechanical knowledge but I've never done one before. I guess it's probably toast anyway so what have I got to lose?
    #11
  12. aragorn
    Online

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,531
    Likes Received:
    301
    #12
  13. aragorn
    Online

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,531
    Likes Received:
    301
    Removing it isnt too bad, refitting is slightly worse, as your then needing to time it up properly etc. Get yourself a haynes manual and have a read thru the procedure.

    A point of warning, the missus' boss has a TT which recently killed its belt, similar manner to yours while driving along etc. He's taken it to a garage who have stripped it and discovered the pistons are damaged as well as the head.
    #13
  14. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    728
    Like you say you cant do much more damage,,,just dont lose anything put it all in a sturdy container, it is obvious what needs to come off, you may as well just cut the belt too.....It will work out cheaper if you are going to pay someone to put it back together with the head already off.
    Get some pics up of the damage, you may be lucky..and just have a bent valve or two....if you get stuck, post on here and im sure we will be able to help...
    #14
  15. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well, I've set about it, got as far as removing intake and associated gubbins, haven't got the rocker off yet, need a Torx bit for the heat shield and it's in my van that the mrs has taken. However, after peering down the inlets all valves "seem" to be in one piece. Bits of carbon around all the side ones but the middle of the three on each cylinder is clean. I've had a gentle poke about and nothing seems bent or broken. Still exhaust valves to check but that'll have to wait until tomorrow, losing light now. Fingers crossed!!
    #15
  16. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    728
    Great, you may be very lucky....
    #16
  17. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    Possibly but I'm not holding my breath.
    I can't really afford to have the car off the road for long as the mrs needs it for work so I'm going to get all the bits needed to put it back together now. What will I need to get? List so far is head gasket, head bolts (are these sold single or pack of ten?) inlet/exhaust gasket, water pump and cambelt kit.
    #17
  18. aragorn
    Online

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,531
    Likes Received:
    301
    Sorry, but you WILL have bent valves!

    And possibly piston damage if it happened at speed.
    #18
  19. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    Low revs and speed, initially she thought she'd stalled it. I'm still very much expecting damage, it was just nice to see 12 in one piece, at least at the ends I could see.
    #19
  20. aragorn
    Online

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,531
    Likes Received:
    301
    Yeh but thats no guarantee the heads still streight. Even the slightest knock will twist the head off centre slightly.
    #20
  21. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    728
    Theres no point speculating, get the head off and go from there....you may get away with a little contact on the piston
    #21
  22. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    I will be doing, but the car is on the front street and that was as far as I got before it started to get a bit dark. The exciting bit will be tomorrow, I can hardly wait!
    #22
  23. aragorn
    Online

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,531
    Likes Received:
    301
    You got a Ribe bit for the head bolts?
    #23
  24. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    No, my brother has a set, I will be borrowing his in the morning. What size is do I need?

    Also, I noticed oil on the spark plug threads from cylinders 1 & 3 and a small amount of oil in the charge pipe. Related?
    #24
  25. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    728
    No and no......
    #25
  26. aragorn
    Online

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,531
    Likes Received:
    301
    10mm Ribe you need!
    #26
  27. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ok, rocker cover is off but it's started to rain so job's stopped. What do I need to remove next before I go for the head bolts? So far all inlet stuff (manifold, injectors etc) is off but nothing on the exhaust side yet, looks pretty tight down there, hard to see where to start.
    #27
  28. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    728
    You need to get the downpipe dissconnected, not a nice job....
    #28
  29. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    I've taken the three bolts off at the back, they were tight as buggery but the rain set in straight after so jobs stopped again. I take it there is more to remove, I haven't had a really good look down the back yet.
    #29
  30. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    Update, head is off and, as expected we have banana valves. Thankfully none have broken off but all 8 exhaust and the 4 front intakes are bent.
    All 4 pistons have some scoring to the lips on the exhaust side, intake side is clear.

    What's the best/cheapest step next? Send this head off to be repaired or get a complete unit from a breakers and refit that?

    Also will the pistons be ok with the scoring to tops? I'll try and get some photos up but it's getting quite dark now so might be tomorrow.
    #30
  31. aragorn
    Online

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,531
    Likes Received:
    301
    there are companies on ebay that will recon your existing head, for around 250-300quid.

    Marks on the top of the pistons probably wont matter, but sharp edges create hot spots so they really need smoothed out. The bigger issue is that if the contact is near the edge of the piston, it can squash the ring gaps and "pinch" the piston ring. This really needs measured, and the only way to measure it is with the pistons out.
    #31
  32. DavidW
    Offline

    DavidW Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    #32
  33. aragorn
    Online

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,531
    Likes Received:
    301
    aye, gives you an idea of the price it'll cost though. Those folks on ebay will just be local engineering shops touting for work.
    #33

Share This Page