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Car Buyers beware-flaw in HPI mileage checks

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by oat, May 20, 2009.

  1. oat
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    oat Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    Yesterday I returned home from doing a deal on an S3 at an Audi main dealer. Did a quick MOT check using VOSA and it transpires the previous owner has done a Marty McFly and gone back in time with my S3.
    I would have thought an HPI check would have picked this up but it did not.

    Dealer refunded my deposit and is as shocked/gutted as I am, although they are in utter shock this hasn't been unearthed during their HPI check
    This got me thinking and after a lot of research I've discovered ANY HPI mileage checks are NOT linked to the VOSA MOT database!!:keule: Talk about a major flaw in the system!! I still can't believe this hasn't been unearthed by anyone before!!

    Be careful out there guys when buying, make sure you do a VOSA MOT check for the mileage as well as full HPI for any outstanding finance/insurance write off etc.


    http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/internet/j...ry-Request.jsp


    For the record the said vehicle to avoid is WR03 GZU - Ebony black with silver leather and fake RSTT wheels
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  3. Essflee
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    Essflee Well-Known Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    glad you got your money back mate, don't think it was ever in doubt, Audi would be as pissed off as you were I'd imagine...it pays to do your own homework now a days...
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  4. S3 HODGE
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    S3 HODGE Brown passenger seat.

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    [May 20, 2009]
    Yea lol, O well at least it was that simple and they wasnt pushing you to buy it still.
    Good luck on the hunt still!
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  5. afcjay
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    afcjay Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    glad you sorted it and got your money back.didnt think you would have much of a problem to be honest

    my friend is looking at a S3 today,showing around 50k told him to do a vosa check as well as a HPI check.better to be safe than sorry

    how much is a vosa check by the way?
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  6. oat
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    oat Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    It's Free!:busted_cop:
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  7. afcjay
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    afcjay Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    have you got a number or web link?
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  8. oat
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    oat Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    Google VOSA MOT CHECK - I have a bad feeling I might end up ruining a few peoples days as clocking is more rife than you would imagine...:angrymod:
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  9. 666markyboy
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    666markyboy Well-Known Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    #8
  10. afcjay
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    afcjay Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    right handy that.cheers
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  11. S3 AJ.X
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    S3 AJ.X Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    Guys how would you check a car that you have just seen on sale, because on the vosa site it asks for the regestration and MOT test number from VT20 MOT Test Certificate or VT30 Refusal of an MOT Test Certificate (failure notice) or Document Reference Number from the V5C Registration Certificate issued by the DVLA??

    Im just asking because my mums seen a audi a3 8p 2.0 tdi going pretty good price, done a hpi but after eading this thread yesterday its got me thinking as the car shows 36,000 on the clock which for a 2004 is pretty low.
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  12. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    There is also the assumption that an MOT tester didnt mark down the wrong mileage by accident :no:
    #11
  13. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 20, 2009]
    Thats so bleeding cool, Saved, didn't know this existed
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  14. afcjay
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    afcjay Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    call the seller and ask for the imfo you require.if they have anything to hide they will refuse
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  15. S3 AJ.X
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    S3 AJ.X Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    CHEERS, very good point. will do.
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  16. Andy_S3
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    Andy_S3 Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 20, 2009]
    Just checked mine, all ok thankfully. However I checked my 1998 Pug 106 on the database and it shows the first MOT being done in Jan 2006! Im hoping this database has only been around for a few years and thats the reason why. However I did buy the car last year with rediculously low mileage (46k for a 10 year old car) so im starting to worry a little!
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  17. 666markyboy
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    666markyboy Well-Known Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    It does state on the site that records only go back to the start of the computerised MOT's i have a couple of the old style MOT certificates in my history folder that didn't show up on the VOSA site..... i think it goes back to around 2005/2006 something like that
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  18. Andy_S3
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    Andy_S3 Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 20, 2009]
    Thats put my mind at ease then!
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  19. evilbow
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    evilbow Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    #18
  20. S3 H16OPY
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    S3 H16OPY New Member

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    [May 20, 2009]
    Glad you got your money back it was never in doubt. great website I never knew it exsisted till yesterday very handy for the future!
    #19
  21. jcs356
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    jcs356 Brum brum

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    [May 20, 2009]
    I've always said HPI is a complete waste of time and money. You can better quality information cheaper - it just takes a bit more time.

    My personal experience relates to a car that was stolen then recovered back to me. I waited a couple of months then did an HPI check just to be sure everything had sorted itself out with insurance/police marker etc. HPI came back clear.

    6 months later I go to the DVLA office to transfer a private plate onto the car and get told 'No you can't, the car is shown as stolen on the DVLA database'. So fat use the HPI check was....
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  22. Boro&Beth
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    Boro&Beth Member

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    [Jun 3, 2009]
    The HPI mileage check, NMR aka National Mileage Register only gets mileage information when a HPI check is done. The user inputs the current mileage and the database stores it. If someone then does a check later and checks the mileage, it looks back at the previous checks to see if the mileage is now less than the previous entries.

    This can return false positives, because someone could enter the wrong mileage, for eg, lets say you're looking at a car with 72,634 miles and someone does a HPI/NMR check and enters 72634 miles exactly, if the next person who checks only enters an approximate mileage, ie, 72000, this will show as being incorrect and throw up a warning.

    The MOT check is much more reliable but not really been going long enough to be 100% accurate. It will certainly help show up any discrepancies over the last few years tho.

    The main problem with the MOT mileage checks is if a car has been clocked prior to its first MOT as it wont be on the database at all.
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  23. S3-Andy
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    S3-Andy Member

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    [Jun 3, 2009]
    dont know about you guys but i always like to see paper work in order especialy on lower millage stuff, if all the old M.O.T s and service history are not available chances are its been clocked or accident damaged, 9/10 you will always find the accident damaged stuff has low miles too.
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  24. oat
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    oat Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Unbelievable they're still trying to sell the car! Audi Northampton :no:
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  25. Boro&Beth
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    Boro&Beth Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    How many miles has is lost?
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  26. zseth
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    zseth Member

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    [Jul 3, 2010]
    hey guys, me and a mate had the same issue with an E46 m3 we went to see, we called up the rac hpi to have a dig and it turns out they DO NOT use vosa as a source of information for mileage as there have been too many occasions where user error deems the mileage incorrect, they use main dealer entries and log book entries if the mileage is filled in when changing owners.
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  27. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Jul 3, 2010]
    but you were completely happy with the car, its condition and the price you paid before you did the VOSA check?
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  28. luckydave
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    luckydave Member

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    [Jul 3, 2010]
    I'm selling my corrado and have been asked a few times for the mot number!

    Now I know why, I did not give it out as I thought they were scamming me, they could use V5 and mot cert numbers to clone your paperwork and your car!
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  29. StevoS3
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    StevoS3 Member

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    [Jul 3, 2010]
    OOOOOOOO MMMMYYYYYY GGGOOOOODDDDDD!!!!!! Relief!!! :D thank you so much for this, I have been absolutly worried sick to the pit of my food pit that my baby has been clocked.

    Couldnt understand how the car blew a conrod on the test run after a stage 1 custome code remap and have always been too scared to get the stage 1 done again as I thought the car had maybe done alot more millage than I thought.

    ALL CLEAR!!! :jump:
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  30. vetch
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    vetch S3

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    [Jul 3, 2010]
    While this MOT history check is another useful tool (along with HPI) to check whats been happening to a motor before your buy it or even after you've bought it, its not a cast iron guarantee that your car hasn't been clocked.

    For example, a car has an MOT and service at 60k miles, MOT cert and service stamp in book as proof. The owner then does 30k miles in the next 11 months. 1 month before the MOT he clocks the car back to 70k miles (rather than 90k miles) and has it MOT'd and serviced. MOT history and service history show car has done 70k miles. Not difficult is it?

    The receipts for mods/parts changed and general condition of the car are just as useful as MOT history when checking a cars past.
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  31. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Jul 3, 2010]
    or just use your brain and value the car on how you see the condition of it to be rather than relying on "safety by numbers". clearly its a flawed system and trying to guage whether or not a car is a good buy based on that the speedo say is stupid.

    ie the OP in this thread, perfectly happy with the car, its condition, its price, happy enough even to hand over ££££ then changes his mind based on the numbers possibly being wrong. its not uncommon for the figures on NMR to be completely incorrect too, digits missing, coma in the wrong place etc
    #30
  32. sportquattro
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    sportquattro Active Member

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    [Jul 3, 2010]
    As Vetch say the figures actually prove nothing I know of one individual that leases cars (BMWs) on a 12,000 miles per year contract and does about 60.000 miles in the 3 year lease period, but the car always goes back to the company with full BMW history and 35,500 miles showing on the odometer. The best way to judge a car is on condition and how it drives, the figures can be fiddled, though in most cases are not. The origional poster was happy with car etc but withdrew from purchase due to mileage issues, as he was happy with the car would it not actually have been better to have negotiated a better deal with the Audi dealership/garage, discount, 3 year warrantee etc. As we all know mileage on the S3 is not the be all and end all and if a new deal could have been done that would have been my choice.
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  33. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 3, 2010]
    Very good point tbh, negotiate a deal with some peace of mind driving & get a cheaper car, job done.
    #32
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