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Can Standard Brakes Handle Revo Stage 2+ ?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by MB RS3, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. MB RS3
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    MB RS3 Member

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    Hi All,

    First post on here, :thumbsup:so go easy on me! haha!

    Car: 2008 Manual S3, Currently at AmD Stage 1, with KW V1 Coilys.

    Question is in the Title really looking to make the step up to 2+ in the nearish future and there are a lot of people in here who know there stuff and I'm just wanting some advice.

    Thanks People!
    #1
  2. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Welcome to the site.

    TBH mate, if you've been dealing with AMD, then better to talk to them really, have a search & readup on the site as there's a fair few discussions on it & then ask your queries.
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  3. MB RS3
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    MB RS3 Member

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    Ok thanks mate, i will have a look around! From reading previous posts on the site Stage 2+ sounds like its worth the effort!
    #3
  4. poli84
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    poli84 Member

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    I've got uprated EBC yellowstuff pads on my 2+ S3 and I would say the answer is no.
    They just don't have the bite you need for the quick speeds you can hit with a 2+ S3.

    In saying that, I don't plan on upgrading my brakes anytime soon either so something I am prepared to live with (and be weary of).
    #4
  5. Brodster
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    Brodster Shark Performance In Scotland Regional Rep Site Sponsor

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    Well my car is booked in for new discs and pads in afew weeks due to excessive vibrations (warped) and this happened after 5k miles from new so in answer to your question standard brakes are not sufficient if going to Stage 2+
    #5
  6. NCRAW
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    NCRAW Member

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    Got APR2+ and I'd also say no. The single piston fronts can't cope too well with increased power. Running ATE PREMIUM ONE FRONTS and ATE stock rears with Zimmermann pads all round. Ok for the first 5 min of twisties then a bit too soft.
    #6
  7. jimojameso
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    jimojameso Active Member

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    I just gone 2+ and the brakes are ok but really need uprating. Definately need doing if you want to go track at all. :)
    #7
  8. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    Hi there...


    As above,ask Ben at AMD for advice,but my own experience was that the stock brakes are not enough for Stg2+,and certainly not for the track.

    EBC pads were no help at all.....lots of noise,but no improvement.
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  9. Boydie
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    Boydie Boycie

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    Just changed my brakes for replacement OEM ones, happy enough with them. I don't track my car so no real need for bigger better brakes.
    #9
  10. KentKid
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    KentKid Active Member

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    Welcome to the forum MB S3, there are a lot of good and knowledgeable people on here.

    I have a Revo 2+ S3 courtesy of AMD Essex.

    I actually spoke to Ben at AMD about brakes late last year.

    He said I wouldn't really require replacement brakes unless I was intending to take my S3 on track, but did recommend getting uprated pads.

    He advised me to get Mintex 1144 brake pads for the front, and stick with the OEM brake pads for the rear.

    He quoted me a price of £110 for the Mintex 1144 brake pads.

    Good luck!
    #10
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  11. Veedubnoodle
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    Veedubnoodle New Member

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    Sorry for the thread hijack here but I am contemplating upgrading to the TTS front brake setup on my A3 2.0 TFSI.

    Would it be worthwhile?
    #11
  12. fangio
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    fangio Well-Known Member

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    Surely braking power depends on your driving style, not how powerful your engine is?

    130mph is the same with a standard engine or a racing engine.
    #12
  13. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    This is absolutely correct....however,as kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity,as you move faster,the brakes then have to dissipate a LOT more energy to stop from 70mph as opposed to even 40mph.
    The point is that a car that has been heavily modified or driven on track,is likely to be driven faster,and thus any margin that you had on the stock brakes,will be used up pretty quickly,especially on repeated braking efforts.
    I am absolutely sure the brakes were more than adequate at the start,and would likely feel and perform no differently from a big brake kit on everyday or town driving,but in different circumstances,you may find yourself running out of braking quite rapidly.
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  14. fangio
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    fangio Well-Known Member

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    Just as I said; driving style is the decider.

    You don't need better brakes to deal with the extra acceleration, just the harshness and number of times they're used.

    The stock brakes still have the same weight to deal with.
    #14
  15. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    I think I agreed!
    Let's put it another way....in line with your comments,I felt that my own style(which isn't usually road burning i have to say,but may include a few harsh braking efforts now and then)and the abilities of the car were likely to exceed the abilities of the stock braking system.
    Now,a different driver may fell perfectly happy with 1500kgs being hauled down by the stock calipers and discs,but on track,they would be nowehere near adequate,and I felt the extra margin would be useful security on road use as well.
    I have always felt that you cannot have enough braking.....(or roadholding etc etc.)
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  16. MB RS3
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    MB RS3 Member

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    Thanks mate, been speaking with Ben @ AmD a fair bit & thought it would be good to get other opinions from you guys!

    How you finding the Stage 2+? Transforms the Car?

    What about reliability? Im guessing the Stock Clutch is a bit iffy after the upgrade?

    Heard alot about Sachs Clutch Upgrade, running alongside the stock DMF? Is this a good route?

    Thanks again bud.
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  17. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    I'd be amazed if the stock clutch lasts after Stg2+,and would recommend either the Sachs or Loba to replace it.
    It really does transform the car,and is probably the best and most cost effective upgrade for the car.....makes it what it should have been.
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  18. MB RS3
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    MB RS3 Member

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    Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated!

    I won't be taking the car on track & i don't tend to "Rag" the car around alot at all but as we all do..... like a bit of fun now and again!

    I most probably will get uprated pads, as there can be no harm in this can there!

    The only thing that concerns me with the upgrade is the Clutch! i've recently had a New Clutch & DMF (Im guessing both parts are OEM) fitted about 1K miles ago by East Kent Audi as it was slipping after 36K miles and around 10K miles after Stage 1.

    Is it worth while upgrading the clutch to a Sachs and continue running a standard DMF? Is this a "Reliable" option?

    Thanks in advance people!
    #18
  19. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    I used a Sachs clutch with the stock DMF for at least a year,with 440bhp/440lbs of torque,and it held up well,but you do need to run it in gently and treat it well,or it will cook.
    If you have any doubts,then the Spec SMF setup is pretty much unbreakable.Uprated pads.....I didn't find them much use,but that's likely just me and my driving "style".
    #19
  20. MattyW19
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    MattyW19 Member

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    Who need's brakes? They only slow you down ;) It all depends on if your planning on pushing the car past the limits of stock form?

    Try uprating the pads to the soft ones (think it's the EBC greenstuff?), if thats not good enough, then you have your answer :)

    Put some R8 calipers on it!
    #20
  21. MB RS3
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    MB RS3 Member

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    Sachs with Stock DMF is the route i'm feeling of going down!

    I've heard mixture of views on SMF for example noisy idle & dodgy for gear changes etc but no doubting there strength!

    Is there any other "Reliability" issues you could advise me on before i make the step up!:eyebrows:
    #21
  22. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    My own experience with uprated pads was a lot of squeal,but no improvement in braking or fade,but that was a stop-gap until a BBK came along.
    #22
  23. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    I currently use a Spec SMF setup.....it does rattle a bit at idle,but on the move it's fine,and no problems at all with feel,or gear engagement.....have a chat with Ben,as the guys there all know my car,and how it runs and feels to drive.
    #23
  24. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Well-Known Member

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    Ran 2+ for 7k miles, now stage 1 again and heading back to 2+ again and have no intention of bigger brakes unless they are cheap as chips. I would say its totally down to how you drive the car and your style of driving. I have never, and probably wont track the car so for me a BBK is not high on the list. I have sufficed perfectly well with the std S3 brakes and on the rare occasion i get myself into a bit of trouble and need to slam the anchors on, i am still suprised by how good they are.

    But maybe its just because i havent experienced a BBK to its full effect and maybe my driving style simply doesnt require it.
    #24
  25. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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  26. MB RS3
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    MB RS3 Member

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    Ok mate, i'll drop him an email! Cheers for all your help bud!
    #26
  27. MattyW19
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    MattyW19 Member

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    Ah okay! It's probably because the pads are already decent, but take for instance another manufacturer may not be as good, so it could make an improvement - if you get me haha!

    The brakes on my A3 are more than enough, but it is a 1.4 TFSI, braking from 60 - 0 takes no time at all! I would never know what it's like after 70 :)
    #27
  28. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    I did my first trackday last year,and whilst the car is fast,the driver isn't!

    In any case after 10 laps of Brands,the pedal was beginning to get a bit long,and the heat from the discs could be felt from standing beside the car after.

    Hauling 1500kgs down from 120mph on the straight plus all the other braking points really makes the brakes work hard!
    #28
  29. MattyW19
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    MattyW19 Member

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    Haha yes I can imagine!! Were you doing it down to lap times at Brands hatch? I race karts and the brakes can get rediculously hot which leads to brake fade (Which you've experienced!). However, you've got to push it to the limit under braking because whats the point in having all that power like yours and breaking a mile before the corner!

    Edit: Obviously, just to clear up I have never done this in my car - if your considering buying it reading this thread :yum:
    #29
  30. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    No...just a bunch of us running around enjoying it.

    Karts I'd love to try but its another of my must do this things.
    #30
  31. KentKid
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    KentKid Active Member

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    No worries pal.

    I’m absolutely loving stage 2+ and thoroughly recommend it!

    I kept my S3 stock for 2 years, and then took the plunge in the middle of last year and upgraded straight from stock to Revo 2+.

    It’s ideal for me, as it still feels pretty standard when driven conservatively, but feels like a completely different car when you put your foot down.

    The additional torque is very noticeable, as is the increase in acceleration when you put your foot down and the needle starts flying through the rev range.

    When driven hard, using higher revs, it feels MUCH quicker than a standard S3 – it also sounds fantastic as well, thanks to the combination of the Milltek Exhaust System and ITG Maxogen Cold Air Intake.

    I have the Revo SPS switch for when I put the car in for servicing – and this is great, because you can flick between stock settings and 2+ in a matter of seconds.

    I have since driven my car with its standard power settings a couple of times, and the difference is pretty dramatic.

    The S3’s a smooth and fast car with a very linear power delivery, but if feels very tame and under-powered when comparing the stock driving experience with the Revo 2+ remap.

    With regards to reliability, it’s been absolutely fine *touches wood*.

    I haven’t had any issues with the stock Clutch either – but I’ve taken it relatively easy, and have been quite sensible in the 6 or 7 months I’ve been running 2+.

    I don’t race other cars from a standstill at the lights very much, and I don’t tend to floor the accelerator in 6[SUP]th[/SUP] gear from low revs either – two driving traits that will shorten the life of the stock Clutch significantly.

    That said, I do intend to get an uprated Clutch at some point this year – I just don’t think it’s something that necessarily needs to be done straight away if you’re sensible, and possibly never at all if your driving style is fairly conservative and not so aggressive.

    For pointers on which Clutch setup to go with, I’ll be scouring the forum and seeking advice just like you.

    I know some people have had problems with reliability and rattle from some Sachs/Loba setups, but’s the uprated Clutch options are going to be heavy duty replacements, so I’d expect them to be a little tougher and noisier than the stock option.

    Plenty of people on here have upgraded Clutches fitted to their S3’s, and I remember bookmarking this thread a while back for when I’m ready to upgrade:

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/169826-s3-8p-clutch.html

    As Alex says, a Sachs Clutch with the stock DMF may be a good option.

    Good luck!
    #31
  32. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    KentKid and MB S3.....good luck to both of you,and if you ever need any worthless advice,you know where to come!.....also as you're both AMDTuning customers,you know you'll get good advice there.
    #32
  33. Makka
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    Makka New Member

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    Sorry for the completely off topic post, but noticed a lot of AMD users in this thread
    Do AMD still sell the Revo remap? Had a look on their Essex site and could only see prices and graphs from AMD's own remap
    #33
  34. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    Yes they do,as far as I know....mine has Revo software,and AMDTuning do all of the work on mine.
    #34
  35. MB RS3
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    MB RS3 Member

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    Thanks for the detailed reply mate really appreciated!

    It's good to here it's "Well Worth It".

    Just a couple of really quick questions slightly off topic but out of curiosity:

    1. With the ITG Maxogen CAI, do you keep the engine cover? If not can you get an aftermarket one to suit? Or do you just keep it off?

    2. Random i know, but what Tyre pressures would you recommend for me? I have PS3's & it usually is just me in the car & possibly one other now & again!

    Cheers again mate!
    #35
  36. MB RS3
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    MB RS3 Member

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    Cheers mate! You've been a great help the last few days its appreciated, good to get knowledgeable advice from people who know there stuff! :thumbsup:
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  37. IceHanger
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    IceHanger Active Member

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    so why does the S3 have larger brakes than the 2.0tfsi?:jester:
    #37
  38. MattyW19
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    MattyW19 Member

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    The reason for the S3 having bigger brakes is for a few reasons really! For instance, the well known saying 'the fast you go, the longer its gonna take you to stop'. Fitting bigger, better brakes at high speeds will minimise brake fade to ensure your brake is always functioning and does not overheat.

    The S3 is the performance version of the A3 (ignoring the RS3) so people buy it for a reason - Therefore the target market are into performance car's and will require the brakes much more often!

    However, if I remember correctly certain engine models do come with the S Line brakes (even if its the SE spec). Putting a 2.0 TFSI engine on a SE spec car (Smaller brakes) could become dangerous at higher speeds!

    We had a 1.6 Sport and a 1.4 TFSI S line, the S Line did appear to have bigger front discs and brakes - Could this be because it's an S Line?
    #38
  39. KentKid
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    KentKid Active Member

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    Hi Makka,

    They were still offering the Revo software in the middle of last year, and I imagine they probably still are.

    I wouldn't worry too much that the Revo software isn't listed on their website, just give them a quick call or send them an email - they're pretty quick to respond to customer queries...
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
    #39
  40. KentKid
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    KentKid Active Member

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    You're welcome pal!

    I've had PLENTY of help on here myself, so it's nice to be able to help out for once!

    The standard S3 engine cover won’t fit with the ITG Maxogen CAI fitted, and I have chosen to leave mine uncovered.

    Most people on here tend to either cut up their engine cover to make it fit, or buy a cheap replica to cut up from eBay.

    Some people have also managed to get a TTS engine cover to fit with their CAI’s:

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/127687-tts-engine-cover-s3.html

    With regards to CAI’s, I thoroughly recommend the ITG Maxogen – but there’s a new kid on the block that may be worth considering, with Revo just releasing their own CAI.

    The stand-out thing about the new Revo CAI is this:

    “A system which offers over 25% less restriction than its closest competitor.”

    STaSIS Revo Performance Online Shop. Revo High Flow Air Intake System 2.0TFSI K03/K04

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/173646-revos-new-cold-air-intake.html

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/175745-revo-air-intake-fitted.html

    The Revo Intake is very new, so it may be worth speaking with the guys at AMD to see if they’ve had a chance to look at this item yet, and if so, whether it’s any better than the ITG Maxogen. It certainly looks very smart!

    Funnily enough I also have Michelin PS3’s fitted to my S3 – good choice!

    Like you – it’s usually just me, or me and one other in the car, and I’m currently running 36 psi front, and 34 psi rear.

    I was previously running 42 psi front, and 33 psi rear (as per the sticker on my car) – but was advised (by Ben) that these figures were a bit too high.

    The 36/34 split feels pretty good, but I guess a lot of it is down to personal preference.

    If you prefer a lighter steering feel use a higher psi figure. If you like a heavier, weightier steering feel use a lower psi figure.
    #40
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