can I run a hybrid without ?

HEHE not flaming anyone but it makes me chuckle when people think they can do a Hybrid upgrade cheap. Its not! I still remember the day i rolled my S3 down to Bills and it was first said dont expect more than 300BHP. Look how far we got past that.

Please people understand that without all the surporting mods you will be expecting certain failure. I only drove my car to and from Bills when on actuator preasure and it was only slow as i had the GF following me in her Corsa (oh and the GTI Inters) but that was just down the road from me. So if you want to do it over time please dont go fitting the turbo on its own and expect it to run for long. i Highly advise saving up and doing it in one hit
 
Thanks for that and all the info

Hope the lasts for me all I need is bigger injectors and rods shorly turbo will run fine till I have the rods done Ste
 
As long as you dont go above 3.5k rpm you should be ok but do as little driving with it as possible i wouldnt fit the injectors before mapping but when you are having the car mapped. Who is doing the mapping?
 
Speedy Steve said:
As long as you dont go above 3.5k rpm you should be ok but do as little driving with it as possible i wouldnt fit the injectors before mapping but when you are having the car mapped. Who is doing the mapping?
Click to expand...

Cheers mate i'll just run it like ya said another thing is iv just bought a 3"tip off j coyle and his jerex will the be ok fitted now or not as the extra air flow might do something too it.

I don't have a clue what map I'd get pal need some advice on that cos I live in Leeds I want a good one for def I'll travel a bit to get there
 
I cant see the problem with driving the car hard with the N75 removed?

Its got wideband lambda, an airflow meter, knock sensors and an EGT probe, at 5psi the turbos hardly going to push the boundaries of the standard mapping!

Enlighten me as to why it might explode if he revs it past 3.5k or sticks the toe down...
 
aragorn said:
I cant see the problem with driving the car hard with the N75 removed?

Its got wideband lambda, an airflow meter, knock sensors and an EGT probe, at 5psi the turbos hardly going to push the boundaries of the standard mapping!

Enlighten me as to why it might explode if he revs it past 3.5k or sticks the toe down...
Click to expand...

Can't expect anyone to recommend ragging a car thats got a bigger turbo but not got adequate fuelling or mapping in place... outline the risk, mitigate the risk then the owner can decide how to proceed... if he rags it rotten and it doesn't blow up then fine... if it does then he's been made aware of the risk... its that simple..

Why fit a bigger turbo and not supporting mods in the first place? thats the bigger question but as the owner has chosen this path all anyone can do is make him aware of the risk as large or as small as it could be... still needs to be made aware of worse case...

And of course without running the car on the dyno to check what the fuelling is doing there is no easy answer to your question but why say it will be fine when the possibility exists that it may not be...

<tuffty/>
 
TBH the OP has done exactly what i'm probably going to do with Shed, install a larger hybridised turbo with standard management. It certainly makes sense to me, why fit a new stock blower when your going to fit a larger one in a few months anyway.

Its pretty inconceivable that at 5psi the hybrid turbo is going to run off the factory MAF scaling, and since the stock ECU will happily add the correct amount of fuel for the MAF values it sees theres no reason the fuelling should be incorrect.

What i'm asking is why would it blow up. Sure if he ran the N75 valve as normal and had huge silly spikes of boost and holding waay more pressure at the top end than the standard turbo could then its conceivable that its going to blow, because you've run off the end of the standard maps, and the boost spikes are dangerous to the rods etc. At 5psi none of thats going to happen though.
 
the term 'blow up' is a generalisation... potential to cause engine damage' would be more accurate... regardless of the ECU's capabilities 5psi of boost will provide more airflow from a hybrid than 5psi of boost from a std K04... ok, the ECU should cope but its still a risk thats subject to the state of the rest of the engine thats an unknown... especially having seen several cars running badly from other issues the owners weren't aware of... the ECU can only add 25% more fuel before throwing a code...

If you want to run your engine like this then thats obviously your choice (and that of the OP's of course) but should be noted its not without a degree of risk that could only be determined by running the car on a dyno to check fuelling etc...

<tuffty/>
 
aragorn said:
TBH the OP has done exactly what i'm probably going to do with Shed, install a larger hybridised turbo with standard management. It certainly makes sense to me, why fit a new stock blower when your going to fit a larger one in a few months anyway.

Its pretty inconceivable that at 5psi the hybrid turbo is going to run off the factory MAF scaling, and since the stock ECU will happily add the correct amount of fuel for the MAF values it sees theres no reason the fuelling should be incorrect.

What i'm asking is why would it blow up. Sure if he ran the N75 valve as normal and had huge silly spikes of boost and holding waay more pressure at the top end than the standard turbo could then its conceivable that its going to blow, because you've run off the end of the standard maps, and the boost spikes are dangerous to the rods etc. At 5psi none of thats going to happen though.
Click to expand...

And you know that actuator pressure on the hybrid will be 5 PSI how? Just because that's stock K04 actuator pressure, that doesn't really mean diddly as it's not a stock K04. Every CR Hybrid I have seen has appeared with a 1 BAR actuator.

I think the answer would be the potential for the fuelling to be incorrect ultimately. OK, it is unlikely, however it doesn't mean it can't happen. Lean condition + high RPM doesn't make for a good or long lasting situation. A hybrid at 1 BAR will be shifting a reasonable amount of air towards the higher RPMs.

Why take the risk?

I would certainly not be encouraging the belief that 'it will be alright'.

I'd stay off the loud pedal - it will drive like a dog anyway!
 
If its 1 bar then sure i can see the potential for problems. He did say when asked that the actuator/wastegate settings were standard though, which is what i what basing my comments on! Standard means it opens at or around 5psi.

I suppose it wouldnt be too much trouble for the OP to run his car up on a dyno and check everythings within safe limits with the N75 disconnected, to give himself some peace of mind that its not on the verge of self destruction, and take the pressure off to get the other bits sorted!
 
aragorn said:
If its 1 bar then sure i can see the potential for problems. He did say when asked that the actuator/wastegate settings were standard though, which is what i what basing my comments on! Standard means it opens at or around 5psi.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can see what you mean - however standard CR Hybrids do have a much higher actuator pressure than K04 stock actuators.

1 BAR actuators seem to be CR's default.
 
Doesnt that screw with the N75 control? The stock actuator opens at such a low pressure to ensure the ECU has very good control over the boost pressure, and to ensure that if something goes wrong it can reduce the pressure to a safe value. Seems like a bad thing to me!
 
aragorn said:
Doesnt that screw with the N75 control?
Click to expand...

In a word, yes.

My preload got adjusted to bring it down to 8 PSI which made boost control slightly easier, however mapping and boost control with a CR Standard actuator isn't the best, or the easiest.
 
1st thing - confirm what actuator pressure actually is......

then its known, everything else is speculation otherwise.
CR do fit stiffer actuators on their regular hybrids.. I spec them down to what I want to see as 1bar is too much for nice n75 control.

Stiffer actuator will keep the penny washer sealed, when it see's high manifold pressures, which is going to be the case on a hybrid... and I have'nt even mentioned wastegate port size yet either! Hoping its 29mm not the poxy 22mm of std k04, which will creep like a mofo, even on actuator pressure (whatever that may be)
 
badger5 said:
any pix of your hybrid?
Click to expand...

S3 gazes cr hybrid: it has been ported..

img0009jx.jpg

By d121m at 2011-04-06

img0008zlo.jpg

By d121m at 2011-04-06

img0007rq.jpg

By d121m at 2011-04-06
 
Welly said:
And you know that actuator pressure on the hybrid will be 5 PSI how? Just because that's stock K04 actuator pressure, that doesn't really mean diddly as it's not a stock K04. Every CR Hybrid I have seen has appeared with a 1 BAR actuator.

I think the answer would be the potential for the fuelling to be incorrect ultimately. OK, it is unlikely, however it doesn't mean it can't happen. Lean condition + high RPM doesn't make for a good or long lasting situation. A hybrid at 1 BAR will be shifting a reasonable amount of air towards the higher RPMs.

Why take the risk?




I would certainly not be encouraging the belief that 'it will be alright'.

I'd stay off the loud pedal - it will drive like a dog anyway!
Click to expand...

I won't be running it with my foot as Iv not got no rods or map and I want a car to drive when iv done all the ryt mods.

I deffenetly was mot going to get a standered ko4 to go hybrid in a few month so this is the hard route I tile and have to lope with it this was till all finished iv had a lot of help on here (thanks u guys)
 
badger5 said:
1st thing - confirm what actuator pressure actually is......

then its known, everything else is speculation otherwise.
CR do fit stiffer actuators on their regular hybrids.. I spec them down to what I want to see as 1bar is too much for nice n75 control.

Stiffer actuator will keep the penny washer sealed, when it see's high manifold pressures, which is going to be the case on a hybrid... and I

have'nt even mentioned wastegate port size yet either! Hoping its 29mm not the poxy 22mm of std k04, which will creep like a mofo, even on actuator pressure (whatever that may be)
Click to expand...

hi bill will I be best turning my actuater pressure down then.

Iv tuck mi turbo off and it fooooked me and s3dave are going to take it apart and see exactly what's coursed it and have a fidel.

Iv got a 3"tip now and a Jetex so they will be getting fitted too with turbo I won't notice any dif from the tip cos I will be on when I get it mapped so I'm selling my forge tip and newspeend filter as I done need them thens for all your help guys
 
Hybrid is on and running now cannot wait for the end result feels alot better all round still got my other map on tho and tuck a total of 6 hours from start to finish happy with the out come
 
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