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can i make my car quattro?

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by ALPINE, Sep 11, 2008.

  1. ALPINE
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    ALPINE Yes its diesel, now cry u lost

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    [Sep 11, 2008]
    same car, just missing the quattro bits right?? im sure its not that easy. if i found a donor quattro surley with a different box ect it can be fitted??

    be gental with me... its a fair question! :)
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  3. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    No mate, floor pan is different, i looked into it a while ago. If we had a B6, then all the mounting points etc are already there, but for us, its a floor swap, or lots of fabricating etc.
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  4. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    As Mark said, possible, but at least, the floorpan aft of the handbrake lever would need to be sliced away wholesale, and a quattro one welded in.

    B6 / B7 have the same floorpan on both quattro and FWD, even down to the read subframe, though the quattro item has the brackets for the differential welded in.

    Subframe just bolts in on B6, even the rear struts are the same.
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  5. ALPINE
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    ALPINE Yes its diesel, now cry u lost

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    bummer!

    cheers chaps!
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  6. treblesykes
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    treblesykes Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    Just buy a quattro badge on ebay...job done.... then save up for an rs4 badge - if you can afford the insurance
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  7. billybravo
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    billybravo MODERATOR

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    this is something im going to do if i ever find a cheap quattro i fancy making it rear wheel drive :) i dont mind all the fab work i find that the fun bit :)
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  8. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    RWD converting a quattro wouldnt be all that difficult, You'd just need to swap in an RWD box and knock up some mounts for the transmission.

    Remove the front driveshafts, leaving the outer CV's in the hubs to keep the bearings properly tensioned.

    The Volvo M90 box from the TDI 940/960 uses an audi bolt pattern which is the same as the 5cyl engines (the volvo TDI of that era is infact a 6cyl VW unit which shares its bolt pattern with the audi 5Cyl and therefore the V6 and V8 too (not sure about the 1.8T but i suspect it might also be the same)

    Add to that the fact that early 2.6 Quattro's sell on ebay for as little as £600 it would probably be quite a cheap project

    I certainly wouldnt want to start cutting floors out though, makes much more sense just to buy a quattro in the first place
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  9. Oranoco
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    Oranoco Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    I'd rather keep it FWD and not have the transmission losses
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  10. billybravo
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    billybravo MODERATOR

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    you wouldnt have to cut the floor out the tunnel is there already all the work is getting the rear subframe in with the struts.

    but i didnt know about the volvo gear box thank will look into that a bit more
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  11. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    Correct to a point.

    But, the 6 cylinder Volkswagen / Audi turbodiesel only fitted to the Volvo transmission via an adapter plate.

    I'm that old enough, I remember working on them.

    The I5, V6 and V8 share a common bolt pattern, the I4 is different.

    Easiest and cheapest way is to run a quattro box, with the centre differential welded up.

    Or just buy an old type 85 / 44 series 016 quattro box, they were manual lockable, so just lock the centre diff, and you had RWD.

    You'll just need to remove the front driveshafts, just retaining the outer CV's, with the cage and balls removed.
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  12. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    siena: afaik the M90 had a removable bellhousing, volvo produced three for it, one for the redblock, one for the whiteblock and one for the VW TDI

    The earlier 740's might have used an adaptor plate, but as far as i can tell the M90 in the 940 has a bellhousing specifically designed for the TDI.

    Either way the adaptor plate would be usable on the I5/V6/V8 motors i would imagine?
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  13. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    Yes, it would work fine on the above mentioned engines, though not Alpine's I4.
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  14. ALPINE
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    ALPINE Yes its diesel, now cry u lost

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    [Sep 12, 2008]

    :)
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  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    To be a little more on topic for your quattro wish, it strikes me that all the mods to your car are in effect "bolt ons". I recon the best thing for you to do would be to get onto ebay and find a cheap quattro, then transfer all your parts over onto it, and sell the bits you remove. The only thing you'd need to find would be a quattro gearbox thats suited to the 1.8T

    Siena, if the I4 has a different bellhousing, what car does the FWD 6speed box come from that a number of folks on here (byzan?) have used in their 1.8T's. I'd presumed they'd come from the 2.5 V6 TDI, but i know they use the same bellhousing as the V8...

    The lack of 4wd is one of the reasons i'm being very selective with the mods to my car. Anything thats not removable and wont fit a quattro i'm not spending any money on upgrading, although saying that all my spare money is going into the LandRover! My plan at present is simply to keep OCL on the road and maintained for another year or so (until the missus finishes university) then once she starts working we can sell it on and buy a quattro. Will probably be going down the 1.8TQS route as i recon it gives the best balance of fuel economy, value and performance!
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  16. billybravo
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    billybravo MODERATOR

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    that was the way i was planing on doing it welding up the centre diff ive just welded my mates skyline rear lsd so he can start drifting

    [​IMG]
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  17. ALPINE
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    ALPINE Yes its diesel, now cry u lost

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    are the quattros like the scoobs in respect of power balencing??? i.e.. to make ones audi more RWD than front. perhaps 70 / 30.

    what do quattros sit at at standerd 60 front 40 rear??
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  18. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    afaik the quattro system uses a proper differential in the center rather than a viscous coupling, so the split will be 50-50
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  19. Andy.B
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    Andy.B Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    I looked into the whole RWD thing for the A4 its really easy if you have the quattro system but if your like me and alpinehead who have FWD its more of a problem. I am still considering it as an option bit i need a bigger engine to justify going rwd.... ie S4 or RS4.
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  20. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    The 01A / 012 / 01X transmission has multi-bolt bellhousing, the I4 motor uses the inner set of bolt holes.

    The Multi-bolt bellhousing first appeared in 1987, in the B3 Audi 80, and was the 01A series. Later evolved to the 012 in the B5/C5 A4/A6 range, then became the 01X in the B6/B7 cars

    The 01E is the 6-speed fitted in B4 / B5 cars, later became the 01X too, same as the 5-speed version, in the B6/B7 cars. The quattro version of the 01X 6-speed is more rear-drive biased.
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  21. Andy.B
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    Andy.B Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    Does anyone know if the quattro rear diff would handle just a RWD application?
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  22. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    The differential will - the driveshafts would need to be thicker.

    Especially if very sticky tyres are used.
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  23. Andy.B
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    Andy.B Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    Hmmm its worth thinking about... i think lol
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  24. Oranoco
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    Oranoco Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    Have to admit I did start making measurements and was thinking Audi A4 Avant and Fords Cosworth YB under the lid driving the rear wheels. Started working out very pricey and I got a house which kind of killed the idea dead
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  25. Soupie69uk
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    Soupie69uk Owner

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    [Sep 12, 2008]
    Wow cosworth engine in a B5 would shock a few people!!
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  26. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 15, 2008]
    TBH i see no real advantage in using a Cosworth YB over a 1.8T bar the name badge

    The 1.8T is a far more modern engine with proper coil on plug ignition and a decent fast ECU compared with the YB's distributor and 1980's engine management!

    They're also very expensive to buy as they're quite rare these days. For any given serious power level i'd bet the money required to take it there would be very similar between the two engines, and the audi lump bolts streight in. Costs a lot less if you do munch it etc too.
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  27. Andy.B
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    Andy.B Member

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    [Sep 16, 2008]
    Have to say comming from the ford scene the YB would fit with ease, and all it takes to get Distributerless ignition is one board that goes on the ECU and your away. But to get the YB in with cozzie running gear with custom mounts would be a fair few £££
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  28. Oranoco
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    Oranoco Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 17, 2008]
    If you've ever been out in a decent prepped Cossie you wouldn't even need to ask. :racer:

    The YB is a stormer of an engine with nigh on bullet proof rods an dpistons from the factory. The Webber ECU although by modern standards is a bit crude is still to this day a very effective system but had I followed the project on I would have been running something like Autronic SM4. A coilpack conversion requires very little expense and is quite a popular modification within the Cosworth scene.

    I was looking at it as it was different and being a Ford nut was a good way to combine my intrest in both marques. I'm sure dropping another Audi lump in would be easier but where's the fun in that. Also popping up the bonnet and showing people something in a place it really shouldn't be has always amused me. We have a guy on PassionFord.com who has fitted a Cosworth YB into his BMW E30. It's a superb project.

    Not saying it is or should be everybodies idea of a good idea but I liked the it and so did a few people I spoke to about it.
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  29. billybravo
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    billybravo MODERATOR

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    [Sep 17, 2008]
    we have a customer who has Full 4x4 cossie running gear and yb on a Gt35 turbo in a nissan primera fully carried out but sevenvally who i am told are no longer around.

    the car is a real sleeper i thought he has put a pulsar engine into it but i was wrong.

    the inside is also fully escort cossie with the dash also mad.
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  30. billybravo
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    billybravo MODERATOR

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    [Sep 17, 2008]
    and also this thing flys trust me thats what gave me the idea of making mine RWD

    This thing scares the **** out of me when i drive it but i love it

    mods there is loads but i will name a few

    Fully worked bottom end
    fully worked head with Twin webber 50s and race cams
    dry sump
    LSD and more and more

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #29
  31. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 17, 2008]
    thing is that for small power increases (say 280hp) both engines are pretty similar. the 1.8T needs a turbo but then compared with the cost of the YB thats offset pretty quickly

    for 300-350 the YB probably has the edge, although the money a decent YB costs means that its probably still possible to get the 1.8T to similar power levels for the same cash.

    For 350+ both engines are going to need a lot of work, your not going to run 400hp on a bone stock YB bottom end, its going to need rebuilt and while your there theres no point leaving the standard rods in it. The 1.8T is going to be lower mileage and healthier to begin with but would need upgraded to 2.0 which would cost a bit

    I agree it makes an interesting conversion. But i dont agree that the engine is better than the 1.8T, and its not any sort of brand loyalty (i would also say the Vauxhall C20LET turbo engine is a better option than the YB), its just the facts.

    The YB certainly has a lot of motorsport heritige and development done on it, and it has a name for big power, but the 1.8T has too in recent years, and i'd imagine things like the cylinder head will better for big power on the 1.8T than a stock YB.
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  32. Andy.B
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    Andy.B Member

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    [Sep 18, 2008]
    That is a nice Super7 rep bet its a right hoot with a N/A YB.:jump:
    #31
  33. billybravo
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    billybravo MODERATOR

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    [Sep 18, 2008]
    Its a Westfield 7 and is prob the fastist thing ive ever driven and ive had some quick motors @ work
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