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Camber

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by imported_glen_jai, Mar 9, 2006.

  1. imported_glen_jai
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    imported_glen_jai Guest

    [Mar 9, 2006]
    This may be a silly question, but does the s3 have front camber adjustment?
    I know the rear doesn't, as I had to buy adjustable arms for it.
    #1
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  3. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Mar 9, 2006]
    Yep it only takes the form of the adjustable end of the wishbone - ball joint though (the three big nuts if you've ever had a look under the car)
    #2
  4. imported_glen_jai
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    imported_glen_jai Guest

    [Mar 9, 2006]
    Great. Thanks Ben.

    Going to try and dial in some negative camber on the front when I get the wheels aligned, to quicken up the steering.

    Anyone got ideas on a good setup for the alignment?
    #3
  5. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Mar 9, 2006]
    #4
  6. ChriS3
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    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [Mar 9, 2006]
    I've read those threads many times and Ess_Three, Glen, has done the research and written the bible on the S3's handling. Haven't done much about it yet, but I'm buying some BBS CH's next week (thanks for the inspiration S3_Steve), so I think it's time to try out what could be the definative S3 Set-up. Let me know what you think:


    FRONT

    Tyre Pressure: 34psi
    Toe Out: 2 minutes
    Camber: -1.5°
    Castor: Front sub-frame out
    Height: -30mm
    Anti-roll bar: 22mm
    Spacers: 8mm



    REAR

    Tyre Pressure: 38psi
    Camber: -0.5°
    Height: -30mm
    Spacers: 15mm



    ADDITIONAL

    Haldex Performance Part
    Eibach Coilovers
    Powerflex Bushes
    BBS CH Wheels
    GSD F1 Tyres


    Not sure about the rear anti-roll bar upgrade. Eibach only do one for the front, saying the rear is good enough?
    #5
  7. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Mar 9, 2006]
    I think the list for my car is as follows when funds permit (and assuming nothing else breaks or it's going!)

    Chassis:

    H&R lowering springs
    Bilstein B8 Sprint Dampers
    Neuspeed 22 front 19mm rear ARBs
    Forge Adjustable rear tie rods
    Powerflex bushes pretty much everywhere
    18" Lightwieght wheels
    Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 tyres
    Spacers to suit wheels
    Set it up right!

    Engine:

    FMIC
    Samco Hoses
    Cold Air Feed
    Exhaust
    Custom Remap
    Oil temp gauge and possible oil cooler.

    Stereo:

    AMSS
    3 or 5 channel JL Audio or Alpine amp
    Replacement Cabin Speakers (Probably JL Audio)
    Nakamichi Headunit

    Think that's about it, except maybe a big turbo if as I said above the bloody thing doesn't break again. I'm going to be taking my car to a track day or ten this year assuming nothing falls off to so that may change my priorities but who knows.
    #6
  8. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Mar 9, 2006]
    I'll give you a few thoughts...


    [ QUOTE ]
    I've read those threads many times and Ess_Three, Glen, has done the research and written the bible on the S3's handling.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Kind words...there are those who will disagree...but my settings worked for me, David R and the current owner!


    [ QUOTE ]

    FRONT

    Spacers: 8mm


    [/ QUOTE ]

    8mm spacers aren't hubcentric...so you may get problems.
    I'd recommend 10s as a mimimum as they are hubcentric...unless you have found 8mm hubcentric?

    You could even go for 16mm fronts...but if I were doing it again, I'd fit 10s.


    [ QUOTE ]

    REAR

    Spacers: 15mm


    [/ QUOTE ]

    15 or 16mm...both fine.


    [ QUOTE ]

    ADDITIONAL

    Haldex Performance Part


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I wouldn't have wasted my money on it...but if it works for you, so be it.
    I could 4 wheel drift / oversteer my S3 at will...so no need for any box to make it do that!


    [ QUOTE ]

    Not sure about the rear anti-roll bar upgrade. Eibach only do one for the front, saying the rear is good enough?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would say that with the correct damping rates (not sure of the Eibachs...but they should be fine) the rear ARB is the single best upgrade to do the the S3.
    Underestimate it at your peril...and get the combination miss-matched at your peril...all I can say was the combination I had made one of the naturally most nuetral cars I have ever driven. It was brilliant...
    #7
  9. imported_glen_jai
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    imported_glen_jai Guest

    [Mar 9, 2006]
    34 psi front and 38 psi rear?
    That's extremely high isn't it? The manual states 32/32psi....

    Btw, what affect do spacers have on the car, apart from looks? Will it make the wheel bushes wear quicker?
    #8
  10. Grant
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    Grant Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 9, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    34 psi front and 38 psi rear?
    That's extremely high isn't it? The manual states 32/32psi....

    Btw, what affect do spacers have on the car, apart from looks? Will it make the wheel bushes wear quicker?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    32psi for 17" tyres, I think they are talking about 18" tyres.
    #9
  11. ChriS3
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    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [Mar 9, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    34 psi front and 38 psi rear?
    That's extremely high isn't it? The manual states 32/32psi....

    Btw, what affect do spacers have on the car, apart from looks? Will it make the wheel bushes wear quicker?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    32psi for 17" tyres, I think they are talking about 18" tyres.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yip, I ran 32/36psi on my old 17"s and I'm running 34/38psi on the 18"s. Seems to give slightly better turn-in, and a little less understeer.
    #10
  12. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Mar 9, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    34 psi front and 38 psi rear?
    That's extremely high isn't it? The manual states 32/32psi....


    [/ QUOTE ]

    What are the settings for 4 people and a boot full?

    32/32 felt awful...
    I think I was running 32/36 or so on 17" wheels...


    [ QUOTE ]

    Btw, what affect do spacers have on the car, apart from looks? Will it make the wheel bushes wear quicker?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I noticed no real difference in driving...nor wear....as long as you are sensible with wheel offsets.

    Looks are subjective...but yeah, if sensible, the car looks better with spacers on.
    #11
  13. ChriS3
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    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [Mar 9, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]

    8mm spacers aren't hubcentric...so you may get problems.
    I'd recommend 10s as a mimimum as they are hubcentric...unless you have found 8mm hubcentric?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm fairly sure the Eibach spacers are hubcentric, been a while since I took the wheels off. I wanted 10s up front but I went with Eibach's recommendations all round - in a time before forum browsing.

    Eibach say that it's best with 8mm up front and 15mm at the rear. Along with their 22mm ARB up front. They make rear bars for the other A3/TT models, but not for the 225 quattro. Neuspeed bars might be just another thing for the summer shopping list...

    [ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]

    ADDITIONAL

    Haldex Performance Part


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I wouldn't have wasted my money on it...but if it works for you, so be it.
    I could 4 wheel drift / oversteer my S3 at will...so no need for any box to make it do that!



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Mheh, and here's me thinking it was the best mod to date! I guess we all drive differently. This is the one things that's really changed the cornering attitude for me. I know what it does, but it seems to change the feel of the car far beyond shoving a bit more power rear-wards.
    #12
  14. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Mar 9, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I'm fairly sure the Eibach spacers are hubcentric, been a while since I took the wheels off. I wanted 10s up front but I went with Eibach's recommendations all round - in a time before forum browsing.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have 10mm Eibach spacers on my GTI.
    The 8mms I tried weren't...

    The hub lip is 8mm...so I can't see how Eibach can make 8mm hubcentric spacers...but I might be wrong.
    As long as they are hubcentric...they'll be fine.


    [ QUOTE ]

    Eibach say that it's best with 8mm up front and 15mm at the rear.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's one opinion...and who's to say it's wrong.
    10/16 would work well too...or 16/16 (from experience)


    [ QUOTE ]

    Along with their 22mm ARB up front. They make rear bars for the other A3/TT models, but not for the 225 quattro.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can't possibly suggest you fir a larger front ARB and leave the standard rear bar in place...it's stupid.
    That makes an understeery car even worse...
    Not good.

    You need larger ARBs all round (to resist the bulk of the car) but proportionally larger at the rear to sort out the chasis balance.
    The Neuspeed ARBs just work...
    I have Eibachs on my GTI...they work.

    But on an S3, they've got it wrong.


    [ QUOTE ]

    Neuspeed bars might be just another thing for the summer shopping list...


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would not suggest you spend your hard earned on an unknown quantity...when the Neuspeed stuff just works...and works sooooo well.


    [ QUOTE ]

    Mheh, and here's me thinking it was the best mod to date! I guess we all drive differently. This is the one things that's really changed the cornering attitude for me. I know what it does, but it seems to change the feel of the car far beyond shoving a bit more power rear-wards.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not saying it doesn't do what it's supposed to..I'm sure it does.
    But it does it by using clever electronics to mask the basic fundamental faults in the S3s chassis...you sort them out, and it adds nothing...you don't need it.

    Sort the damping, spring rates, ARBs, camber, toe, tyres, tyre pressures and you have a very organic S3 that can be driven very hard indeed...without requiring electronics to mask basic faults.

    But, as always, there is more than one way to skin a cat...
    #13
  15. S3Steve
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    S3Steve Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    but I'm buying some BBS CH's next week (thanks for the inspiration S3_Steve),

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would try Richard at Demon Tweeks for your wheels mate he did me a great deal. He also got them to me quickly when other places were quoting 7 days. I ordered them monday afternoon and they were on my doorstep at 7am this morning. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif

    His direct number is 01978 663052

    The price was £1350 for 18" wheels fitted with Yoko Parada Spec 2 tyres.
    just carraige and a set of locking wheel bolts to add to the above price.
    #14
  16. S3Steve
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    S3Steve Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2006]
    I doubt you will want to run spacers with the CH's as they are an 8.5" wide wheels and because of this come with a ET30 offset thus giving a similar look to a 8" wide wheel with spacers and ET35 offset.
    #15
  17. ChriS3
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    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [Mar 10, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]


    The hub lip is 8mm...so I can't see how Eibach can make 8mm hubcentric spacers...but I might be wrong.As long as they are hubcentric...they'll be fine.


    [/ QUOTE ]


    Ok, now I want to go take the wheels off to make sure they're not lug-centric. Might be a good thing if they are as I was after a set of 10s in the first place - good excuse to get it the way I intended.

    [ QUOTE ]


    I can't possibly suggest you fit a larger front ARB and leave the standard rear bar in place...it's stupid.
    That makes an understeery car even worse...

    Not good.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's was my opinion when I went to Checkpoint, but they tried to convince my otherwise. In all honesty it's good in long high-speed bends, but very stiff and understeery in tight hairpins and round-abouts where you should be kicking the tail out. Maybe it's the reason the Haldex PP has made such an improvement.

    [ QUOTE ]


    I would not suggest you spend your hard earned on an unknown quantity...when the Neuspeed stuff just works...and works sooooo well.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Tried and tested works for me. I haven't seen anywhere on the internet that sells a set for the S3. Mind if I ask where you got yours?

    S3_Steve, thanks for the info, that's definately the cheapest I've seen the CHs. Those Parada's look very tasty too. The GSD F1's have great reviews but they haven't got thebest looking tread pattern IMO. I'll see what deals they offer on them and make my mind up then. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    Hadn't considered the spacers with the 8.5" wheel. Thanks for pointing it out.
    #16
  18. S3Steve
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    S3Steve Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2006]
    MSWUK who are supposed to be the importer for BBS wheels into the UK quoted me £260+vat per wheel. I was originally quoted £1350 wheels and tyres from SWT but they told me they would take 7 days so I spoke to Richard at Demon Tweeks who matched their price( which he said was a very cheap price) and arranged gettin them to me by today.(arrived at 7am this morning)
    #17
  19. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Ok, now I want to go take the wheels off to make sure they're not lug-centric. Might be a good thing if they are as I was after a set of 10s in the first place - good excuse to get it the way I intended.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    If they aren't causing wheel wobble, they should be fine...but hubcentric removes the chance of wheel wobble...or all but removes it.


    [ QUOTE ]

    That's was my opinion when I went to Checkpoint, but they tried to convince my otherwise.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Although I use Checkpoint...do any of them actually own an S3?
    Ever driven one hard?
    Ever modified one?

    Even know how to improve one?

    Thought not. 'nuff said really.


    [ QUOTE ]

    In all honesty it's good in long high-speed bends,


    [/ QUOTE ]


    But then again, a standard S3 is fine of long sweeping high speed bends...

    [ QUOTE ]

    but very stiff and understeery in tight hairpins and round-abouts where you should be kicking the tail out. Maybe it's the reason the Haldex PP has made such an improvement.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not surprised to hear it...the Eibachs are stiffer than the Bilstein / H&R combo I fould absolutely perfect.

    I prefer to run the dampers on the softer side...to get the turn in...and use the ARBs to resist roll and set the chassis sttitude to cornering.

    Mine was rock solid at low speed...so well planted that Evo / STI drivers gor a hell of a shock as you out cornered them...then out accelerated them.

    The set up on my S3 was so compliant...it was amazing that it was as good as it was on the track.


    [ QUOTE ]

    Tried and tested works for me. I haven't seen anywhere on the internet that sells a set for the S3. Mind if I ask where you got yours?


    [/ QUOTE ]


    Good man..
    You could do a lot worse than the Neuspeed combo I had (can't remember the sizes)

    Awesome GTI store do them. That's who got mine...only don't go looking for them under S3...you won't find them.
    They are a TT part!
    #18

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