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Cambelts...[NOT AGAIN!]..you might find this interesting...

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by evotista, Oct 18, 2005.

  1. evotista
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    evotista Member

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    I've just posted this on tt-forum, but since its for BAM engines...it pretty much applies for S3s...read on


    I decided to do a bit of research on behalf of the community into cambelt change prices and advice given by audi main dealers. This is not meant to be an audi dealer bashing exercise...i just want to highlight what you should look out for in the quote and any further pointers if you're facing cambelt work soon.

    I managed to contact and get quotes from about 14 different dealers over the country, asking for a cambelt quote with breakdown of costs for a 1.8T TT 225ps Coupe, engine code BAM.


    Labour rates per hour that i was quoted for a 3.5 year old TT are as follows (all EXCLUDING VAT)

    Teesside Audi £59.5
    Pentraeth Audi £76.8
    Dundee Audi £63
    Camberley £90
    York £89.95
    Preston £89
    Listers Worcester £89.5
    John Fox - Nottingham £85
    Hadwins (Grange over Sands) £61.2
    Warrington £80
    Crewe £80
    Chelmsford £92
    Chester £85
    Huddersfield £76

    Teesside audi specifically mentioned they have a labour rate that goes down after 3 years…and this is reflected in the list above.

    The difference in "book" time (hours labour) quoted for a TT cambelt replacement across dealers is eye opening. Listed below is the hours quoted for cambelt replacement and also hours quoted for waterpump replacement with a total for both.

    Teesside 4.0 + 0.7 = 4.7Hrs
    Pentraeth 2.5 + 0.0 = 2.5Hrs
    Dundee 2.5 + 0.5 = 3.0Hrs
    Camberley 3.5 + 0.5 = 4.0Hrs
    York 3.5 + 0.5 = 4.0Hrs
    Preston 2.5 + 0.5 = 3.0Hrs
    Listers- Worcs 2.5 + 0.5 = 3.0Hrs
    John Fox 2.5 + 0.5 = 3.0Hrs
    Hadwins 2.5 + 0.0 = 2.5Hrs
    Warrington 2.5 + 0.5 = 3.5Hrs
    Crewe 2.5 + 1.0 = 3.5Hrs
    Chelmsford 2.7 + 0.8 = 3.5Hrs
    Chester 2.5 + 0.0 = 2.5Hrs
    Huddersfield 2.5 + 0.5 = 3.0Hrs

    So only, Hadwins, Pentraeth, and Chester did the reasonable thing of waiving the labour cost of waterpump replacement since its only 4 bolts extra beyond a cambelt replacement

    Individual parts prices were pretty much universal across all main dealers, however the quotes received from dealers have large total parts price variation due to the vagueness as to what actually must be replaced , rather than recommended to be replaced when doing a cambelt. I think most of us know that it is a bloody good idea to replace the waterpump while doing the cambelt...however what about the tensioner/hydraulic damper unit, what about the ribbed v-belt to the PAS etc? Some dealers included these automatically, some however did not and stated it would be on inspection of the parts themselves....this leads to a bloody nightmare when trying to compare like for like quotes!...as always be on your guard and insist for a detailed quote breakdown.

    This to me seems a reasonable list of what really we should replace without question

    Timing Belt (cambelt)
    Tensioner Pulley
    Water pump
    Ribbed belt - Because its cheap and the old one has got to come off anyway!

    The tensioner pulley and the waterpump with its associated impeller are encompassed by the timing belt and therefore under mechanical stress, so it would seem sensible to replace these items along with the toothed timing belt itself. This only leaves the hydraulic damper tensioner unit itself...which does have an idler pulley wheel as part of the unit which touches the external surface of the belt. This is quite an expensive part, and at least one dealer said they had only ever seen one of these fail ever on ANY 1.8T lump...it would seem sensible to me to leave this part for assessment, and only if required to be replaced.

    Some dealers quoted for 4 litres of coolant when doing waterpump, most were only quoting for 2 litres! Also there seems to be something going on with the waterpump price. ....50% quoted for a part that was £25.8 + VAT, the other 50% quoted for a part that was £47.91+VAT, quite a difference! One answer i could get was that the £25.8 pump is being suppressed and replaced by the £47.91 part, so dealers should only be using the £47.91 part..another dealer told me that the £25.8 unit is a reconditioned one, whereas the £47.91 is brand new! Quite what is going on here i can't quite establish, not one dealer has yet to be able to say if there is a technical difference between the 2 part numbers.

    List of Part Numbers and most commonly quoted price (excl VAT)

    Toothed Cambelt 06B 109 119 A £20.00
    Tensioner Pulley 06B 109 243 D £38.20
    Waterpump 06A 121 011 TX £25.80
    Waterpump (New?) 06A 121 012 £47.91
    Ribbed V-Belt 06A 260 849 E £21.00
    Hydraulic Damper 06B 109 477 £64.31
    Coolant (1 litre) G01 2A8 FM1 £5.67


    Other quirks i had while i did this research....camberley audi refused to give me the part numbers involved...prices and description no problem!...i have no idea why!!!!!
    West London audi , would not give me anything but a vague quote (circa £760) unless i gave them ALL my details which i was not prepared to do...so i've not included them in the list.

    So finally .....who wins for the cheapest cambelt and waterpump swap on a 1.8T BAM engine. To compare i've used the hours, labour rates quoted for and used the more expensive waterpump cost, but gone with their recommendation as to whether they automatically include ribbed belt/hydraulic unit, how much coolant etc. All prices INCLUDE VAT

    Teesside Audi £552.32
    Pentraeth Audi £356.76
    Dundee Audi £363.30
    Camberley £661.24
    York £635.20
    Preston £501.31
    Listers Worcester £466.02
    John Fox - Nottingham £417.42
    Hadwins (Grange over Sands) £337.51
    Warrington £419.99
    Crewe £491.58
    Chelmsford £523.52
    Chester £496.18
    Huddersfield £471.72

    And so the Winner is HADWINS....(ta da!) …which makes Camberly 96% more expensive than Hadwins! The only difference between these 2 is that Hadwins did not include the hydraulic/damper unit whereas Camberley did…even if you factor this in the difference is still 60%!

    The thing that wins here is low labour rate, low book time etc. Most dealers correctly advised that BAM engine codes should be 80000 miles replacement , a handful said that 115000 miles is the recommended….but this is only true prior to MY01…not the car asked to be quoted for.

    If you've made it here....well done...as always it pays to shop around

    Comments gentlemen please.........
    #1
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  3. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    wow, you have been busy. Many thanks for all your time and effort, I'm sure somebody will make this a sticky. I must confess, I really think that most places would struggle to do it in 2.5 hrs though in real life away from the book quoted figures.
    #2
  4. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    Good research, very surprising the difference of rates and times the dealers quote. Makes you wonder how much they actually rip people off, especially the non technically minded souls.

    Thanks for the info /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
    #3
  5. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    Fantastic research!
    Who the hell would want a recon water pump when it's only £50 new?
    Next they'll be doing remoulded cambelts.
    #4
  6. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    That is fantastic work, and must have taken an age going by my luck in getting responses from Audi Dealerships!

    One thing is this does mean the dealers are not doing there jobs correctly, because as I understand it they are supposed to get the book time from ElsaWin, I might be wrong though - it has been known.
    #5
  7. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    Superb effort bud! nice to see ppl can make the time and effort to do some serious research and be a big help in trying to make ppl aware and not get ripped of!! Thanks
    #6
  8. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    All I can say is, screw the dealers, I'd rather take it to an independant specialist, probably cheaper than Hadwins, but each to their own.
    Applause must be given for such extensive research though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bravo.gif
    #7
  9. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    It is indeed an excellent and informative piece of research.

    I'm slightly confused by the different times allowed for the work too. I always thought dealers had a standard time to do a specific job, and ony labour rates fluctuated.

    Kev.
    #8
  10. evotista
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    evotista Member

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    Your right, in that ElsaWin does give a book time...but each franchise then tweaks it according to what ever their business model is.....whether this is against Audi AG policy i have no idea...could be an interesting one to chase with Audi CS....

    The research did take ages (3 weeks!)....thankgod for the power of email...but sometimes getting a response that made sense with a sufficient breakdown took several tries...apparently the whole audi dealer email setup is a little suspect shall we say!...and a lot of dealers attitude to requests via email is to ignore it
    #9
  11. evotista
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    evotista Member

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    jojo,

    Interesting that you say that about independents....i trust AmD one hell of a lot...but the oft quoted figure from them for a full on cambelt change is £550 + VAT!...i have not actually confirmed on this though with them...but this figure crops up alot on the tt forum. There are certainly cheaper independents than AmD who are just as good eg, Star, VagTech etc for this work.

    Moreover....how about taking advantage of Hadwins...don't forget the courtesy car for the day...in the lakes....if you got lucky with what you got, you could have a day blasting around some fantastic roads, and cover the petrol costs easily...have the audi stamp in the book...and from what i understand Hadwins are a one off franchise who actually have decent customer service! I would also include Pentraeth as well on Anglesey...and there's some fab roads around there as well!
    #10
  12. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    jojo,

    Interesting that you say that about independents....i trust AmD one hell of a lot...but the oft quoted figure from them for a full on cambelt change is £550 + VAT!...i have not actually confirmed on this though with them...but this figure crops up alot on the tt forum. There are certainly cheaper independents than AmD who are just as good eg, Star, VagTech etc for this work.

    Moreover....how about taking advantage of Hadwins...don't forget the courtesy car for the day...in the lakes....if you got lucky with what you got, you could have a day blasting around some fantastic roads, and cover the petrol costs easily...have the audi stamp in the book...and from what i understand Hadwins are a one off franchise who actually have decent customer service! I would also include Pentraeth as well on Anglesey...and there's some fab roads around there as well!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Woah £550+vat /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked2.gif, that's the price of a remap!, and even more expensive than the most expensive quote from Chelmsford franchise dealer. My car is currently at 50k miles, and I plan to change at 60k miles as a precaution, since my car has been remapped etc. I will be taking my car to RSD for the cambelt change, as recommended by RichA3Turbo, they offer a good service with decent pricing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #11
  13. davidhodgkinson
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    davidhodgkinson Member

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    Good research, It's glad to know that my local dealer is Hadwins /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
    #12
  14. ALISDAIR
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    ALISDAIR New Member

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    well done,dundee looks not bad they are my local audi dealer i am very suprised to see them up there with a good price,good research cheers
    #13
  15. ALISDAIR
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    ALISDAIR New Member

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    [Oct 18, 2005]
    lol thats true,cant stop laughing at that comment , ha ha
    #14
  16. ianhg
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    ianhg Member

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    [Oct 19, 2005]
    carrs of truro in cornwall, will not charge labour rates for the water pump change when it its changed with the cambelt.
    thats some great info you have there,
    would u be happy with me posting this link onto vag20v.net as it may help them too?
    #15
  17. evotista
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    evotista Member

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    [Oct 20, 2005]
    ianhg,

    Yes...no problem with putting this on the 1.8T forum...its good to see other garages not charging on the waterpump labour. Over on the tt-forum some figures have now come up for independents, as follows

    AmD = 575 + VAT ! (full on change..but even so that's expensive)

    TT Shop = £550 (inc VAT)

    VagTech = £329 (inc VAT)

    We could do with getting a few more independents to quote....like Awesome, Star, RSD etc and then this thread would really contain everything.

    Cheers
    #16
  18. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Oct 20, 2005]
    evotista, I think you have hit on an interesting point there, AmD are not that cheap compared to main dealers on a car that falls into the main dealers discounted labour rate.

    And then there is the whole issue of how much time does everyone bill that's so rightly highlighted above.

    I think the thing you hopefully get at AmD is a comptent person doing the work but I would also say you have less comeback against them than an Audi maindealer if something goes wrong.
    #17
  19. dickys3
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    dickys3 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 20, 2005]
    I've added this to the FAQ for future ref...
    #18
  20. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    evotista, I think you have hit on an interesting point there, AmD are not that cheap compared to main dealers on a car that falls into the main dealers discounted labour rate.

    And then there is the whole issue of how much time does everyone bill that's so rightly highlighted above.

    I think the thing you hopefully get at AmD is a comptent person doing the work but I would also say you have less comeback against them than an Audi maindealer if something goes wrong.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah very true!
    #19
  21. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Oct 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    We could do with getting a few more independents to quote....like Awesome, Star, RSD etc and then this thread would really contain everything.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Star Performance are doing mine for £299. Belt, tensioner, pump, the lot. 4 hours labour. It may well be a reduced price as I am spending a dollop of cash geting the brakes done all round at the same time but still, compared to the shocking Audi prices researched........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

    Great price plus a competent team doing the job.
    #20
  22. S3Si
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    S3Si Member

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    [Oct 20, 2005]
    Autotechnik in Totton (South) quoted £295 inc vat (no water pump). Excellent independent garage.
    #21
  23. Grant
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    Grant Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 20, 2005]
    Bavaria Auto Werke in Aberdeen did my cambelt with waterpump and 60k service!

    It was half the price of Specialist Cars (Audi dealer).

    £30 or £35 per hour.
    #22
  24. neil.c
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    neil.c Senior

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    [Oct 22, 2005]
    Good investigative work and perseverance to see it through to the end very useful :)
    #23
  25. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 22, 2005]
    Yes Autotechnik in Southampton are excellent, real passion for your car. They just did my A4 Avant TDi cambelt, water pump, tensioner & Vbelt tensioner (£100 just for the part), was £445 all in. Highly recommended.
    #24
  26. MikeA3
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    MikeA3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 10, 2007]
    Just thought i'd add mine - volkspeed (ashtead in surrey) - £360 including water pump etc etc - not too bad for an S3 in my book when epsom audi want £601 !!
    #25
  27. madvw
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    madvw Active Member

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    [Jul 10, 2007]
    just been quoted £530 for cambelt, pump and tensioners from Norwich Audi.

    They quoted for a cambelt "kit" - which apparenetly containd the tensioners?
    #26
  28. steve1975l
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    steve1975l Member

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    [Jul 10, 2007]
    My friend is the salesman there and an old scholl friend is the mechanic there. My is overdue so may give them a call. Did you get the metal waterpump?
    #27
  29. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 10, 2007]
    I would recommend the kit anyways, since all the tensioners are coming off, do people really just change the belt only for such a labour intensive job?
    #28
  30. MikeA3
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    MikeA3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 10, 2007]
    to be honest i'm not 100% sure - they said it was the cambelt, water pump, tensioners etc etc - i didn't realise you could get more than one type of water pump - i presume the metal ones last longer?
    #29
  31. S3_MCD
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    S3_MCD Member

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    [Jul 10, 2007]
    its not so much that the pump lasts longer, rather the plastic fins, being metal dont break up
    #30
  32. AlistairC
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    AlistairC New Member

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    [Dec 30, 2007]
    Perhaps a new record set here at Worthing Audi.

    Asked them to price up a cambelt change and waterpump / acc belt at same time.
    Apparently, according to service, the water pump is an entirely separate job & was priced separately for labour!

    labour - cambelt £265
    labour - waterpump - £199
    parts - £162.81

    total - £626.81
    vat - £109.69

    GRAND TOTAL - £736.50 :faint:

    Bargain! Did the job myself in the end - that would have been more than 1/3 the cost of the car! (A '99 1.8 na)
    #31
  33. mattyboy199
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    mattyboy199 Active Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    Just go to Jabba sport 350gbp for a cam belt change + tensioners & a metal impeller water pump, job done !

    You can always get your lube service at Audi to get your stamps but i cant see how that is possibly worth it when Jabba do such a good job for half the price !
    #32
  34. joshxs
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    joshxs Member

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    [Mar 20, 2008]
    I think I have just found a new record!

    Just had a quote from Vindis Audi in Cambridge.... £704! for cambelt and waterpump.

    Apparently the quattro drive system makes replacing the cambelt a lot more difficult.

    Funny, the local VW/Audi specalist never mentioned that. Been quoted £301 all in by one near me
    #33
  35. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 20, 2008]
    its disgusting that Audi UK allow this, I know there are regional differences in cost of living etc.... but the differences seem to be outside of these...Teeside Aud, case in point and mentioned above..... you'd expect this price in London..... its absolutely ridiculous
    #34

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