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Cambelt

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by jesters3, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. jesters3
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    jesters3 Active Member

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    Well it had to happen sooner or later! After having done the marathon moonwalk in london and finishing at 9am with no sleep, we decided to go home. Down the M4, change up a gear and lose all power, change down a gear still no power. So I coast over to the hard shoulder, stopping at the 100m post for heston services, so close yet so far.

    ANyways called Audi RoadAssistance and they managed to get out in 45mins and recovered the car and us back to home, thank christ!.

    Audi came out the following day and confirmed that the cambelt has gone and the car is now at Ridgeway Audi getting sorted. Have to say the entire experience was great, the care and service from all involved was excellent.

    Thankfully I called Audi a few months ago about the extended warranty as mine had expired. They stuck me on the list so I am covered for the recovery and hopefully for the work needed to be done by the car. That is what I am hoping, as the cambelt han't been changed and the car has done 95k , but I do have a piece of paper advising that the cambelt should be changed at 115k.

    Still I should have done it earlier but what can you say when you are going by manufacturers requirements?

    Also from speaking to the Audi technician, he has no news about an S3 or RS3, but the next S6 and S8 will have V10s and have been given the green light.

    All in all the customer car was sublime, I even got a TTC as a hire car while mine is getting sorted!
    #1
  2. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    Oops! Hopefully it will be covered by the warranty as you'll more than likely need a few new valve, maybe new piston(s) and even possibly a new head.. Hopefully the damage is minimal but a failing cambelt is NEVER good.

    RIch
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  3. imported_Nigma
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    imported_Nigma Guest

    What damage did it cause?

    Can imagine the valves are fecked!?
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  4. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    At the absolute best you'll have a few bent valves.
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  5. jesters3
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    jesters3 Active Member

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    So far, no news so am unsure of the state of play, will be calling Ridgeway later on. But from what the ADT dude said bent valves are a certain and maybe the heads as well. Oh well. I hope the warranty covers it but I can see a bit of tooing and froing
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  6. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I still think the recommendation was to change cambelt @ 80k miles, which is what I've been advised on all the VAG cars I've had and your experience would seem to prove the point. I've never heard of a cambelt lasting beyond 100k miles. I thought the confusion over getting it done @ 115k was for kilometers (but thats only 72k miles).
    Anyway I'd hang on to that piece of paper & hope/pray the warranty comes good.
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  7. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    99% that most of the valves will be bent. There could also be damage to the drivetrain parts. We repaired an alfa Romeo after it snapped the timing belt. It did about 5 miles before, unknown to us the crushed oil journals under the pistons starved the bearings of oil due to the contact between the pistons and valves. Oh Joy. . . .
    #7
  8. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I thought that was all part of a standard Alfa 10k service!
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  9. 663KAY
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    663KAY New Member

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    isn't it 75k miles (120k km's)?! well, it says so in the 1.8T manual. Don't really know about the S3. same?
    #9
  10. mebrown001
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    mebrown001 Member

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    Just had mine changed when i bought it from a garage. in the service book who ever last serviced at audi put down cambelt change at 80K
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  11. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    The official word from Audi is over 100K, but dealers aren't stupid so they recommend a lower mileage most of the time.
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  12. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think it is Audi who's being stupid, my wife's 1.8T service book doesn't even recommend an interval for the cam belt (just mentions 80k for V6 32v, & 5cylinder TD's), although in mine it clearly states 80k miles. If it can fail at 95k miles (as illustrated above) then surely 80k miles seems sensible, or does the A3 1.8T engine use some magic belt with extra strength & longevity, surely in an S3 the belt must have to work harder as the engine will tend to be driven harder.
    Having said all that a mate of mine snapped his on a 16v GTi at 72k but he does drive like a tw4t. VW warranty paid out no questions.
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  13. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The specialist I use strongly recommends 80k, and I think IIRC even the wonderful Southampton Audi said the same!
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  14. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    I'm just going by ELSA WIN and me buddy at my local dealer for belt change intervals.

    Anyways, yes, different engines have different lifespans for the belts. Loadsa science involved and to late for my brain to write it out :)

    I'm interested in how the new FSI turbo and non turbo engines belts last. as VAG have introduced a new oval crank sprocket and revised tensioner. they claim that the new system will never need a belt change!!!

    Hmmmmm, time will only tell how true this is.
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  15. larsmate
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    larsmate Member

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    I've had an A3, A3T and now an S3. Here in Australia the service book on all three of these cars states 90,000 kms or 4 years, which ever comes first. I've just replaced my belt and the car has done 65,000 kms (but over four years old). The last time I was in for service the dealer wanted to change the belt and I said no it can wait till the next service. He then typed on the service sheet an indemnity stating the customer (me) was advised to change the cam belt but opted not to. The info he typed in their service database is available to Audi Australia. This info would then invalidate any claim by me.
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  16. jesters3
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    jesters3 Active Member

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    Still waiting to hear back. I would recommend to anyone to get it done at 80K now!! Just hoping i have a strong enough case to get Audi to pay for most of the work that needs to be done. Ho Hum we'll wait and see.
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  17. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    The absolute most you should have to pay is the cost of a regular cambelt change. An important thing to do is MAKE SURE that they change the water pump!! Im sure it will be a bit knackered by that mileage... Mine was in pieces at 65k! I'd be pushing to pay nothing though!

    Rich
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  18. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    aye, Rich not that yours has had a particularly hard life LOL
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  19. mebrown001
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    mebrown001 Member

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    Just had my cambelt done guys but pretty sure the waterpump wasnt done at the same time... should i get it checked or is it sumthing that will go on ok for a while. the car has don'e 78K miles
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  20. imported_Nigma
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    imported_Nigma Guest

    Dealers won't do it unless you specifically say to them to do it. The waterpump part should be listed on the invoice if it has been done.
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  21. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Too late now as the bulk of the work is labour and you'll have to pay for it all again. Water pump should be good for another 20-30k miles, but if you notice any leaks from the pump or find the engine stalling at traffic lights then get it sorted straight away as if it seizes it will strip your lovely new cambelt along with most of your 20 valves.
    For the sake of £38 why don't they just change the bloody thing along with the belt?
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  22. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    aye, Rich not that yours has had a particularly hard life LOL

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Tue.. lol. But still, its just the water pump... things like that shouldnt break. God knows why they decided to use w*nky plastic impellers.

    Rich
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  23. mebrown001
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    mebrown001 Member

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    my cambelt was replaced by the garage as part of the deal buying the car... nothing to do with audi servicing it. engine sounds quiet and runs smooth so i guess it'll be fine for a while. cheers
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  24. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    I guess plastic doesn't rust? Cheaper to make? I'm doing my belt soon and the waterpump will be getting changed too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #24
  25. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I guess plastic doesn't rust? Cheaper to make? I'm doing my belt soon and the waterpump will be getting changed too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    But of course there are a good few (reasonably inexpensive) alloys around that wouldn't rust either...

    I won't normally install anything in a PC with a plastic impeller purely because of reliability issues. The only technical downside to go with the slightly increased cost of an alloy impeller equipped pump is that certain units may introduce more heat via friction into the coolant system than their plastic-counterparts due to characteristics of the material and mechanics; however if I can allow for that, I'm damn sure Fritz can too.

    ...I'd say the plastic impeller has a lot more to do with 'planned service life expectancy' and them not willingly volunteering the information you can save yourself hundreds of pounds by changing the part at the same time as another labour-intensive job. Maybe I'm just being cynical?...

    Regards,

    Rob.
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  26. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Maybe on premium brands but you expect a bit more from Audi
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  27. ritmark
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    ritmark Member

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    My impeller broke on the M4 - had it changed along with a cambelt at 80000 - no point risking it IMHO

    I understood that the recommended change was 120k - SOD that - get it done well,well before that
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  28. mebrown001
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    mebrown001 Member

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    so mines just approaching 80K and had cambelt done but not water pump! should i get the water pump done or will i be ok 4 a while guys? i'm guessin it wud cost me a couple of hundred at least! i'd rather put the cash towards a chip or sum new wheels :-( cheers guys
    #28
  29. ritmark
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    ritmark Member

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    not sure buddy but bearing in mind its plastic -hmmm

    If you dont have breakdown cover I would get it changed

    heat up - cool down - heat up - cool down - repeat over and over on something PLASTIC - Why did Audi do this
    #29
  30. jesters3
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    jesters3 Active Member

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    Finally found what's going on. Getting a brand spanking new engine for the S3 as a result I don't have to pay for the cambelt change or the service it was due. All is going to be paid for by Audi/Mondial, something like £7000 all in. I however have to pay for the extended warranty I expressed an interest in at £875.00. A fair trade I have to say, though a little bit peeved that the warranty is double what I paid last year.

    For those that haven't changed their cambelt and are into the 80k mark, change it otherwise you will be getting a horrendous bill.
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  31. Leon
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    Leon Member

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    Sounds like you've got a very good dealer there Jester as they could have easily stitched you up if they had wished. Well done!

    How difficult is it though for the dealers to tell customers to have it changed, when it goes in for a service?! I am guessing your car had at least 80K on the last service, so they should have told you to have it changed immediately, without question. They would do if the tyres were bald and quite rightly, but an engine failure at 80mph could just be as dangerous (yet much more costly!).
    #31
  32. imported_fingermouse
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    imported_fingermouse Guest

    no matter what car i wounldn`t let any cambelt do more than 60,000 miles,
    #32
  33. ahjones
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    ahjones New Member

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    Just got to 80k and been inquiring about costs. Why is it you have to tell them to include the cambelt. 2 independants came back and said do the water pump too. Audi never mentioned it....joining the cynics here I think. I wonder if they'd have mentioned the cambelt if i hadn't?

    Variable saing 2000 more miles though. plenty of time to save up!. booked in for next month then.
    #33
  34. Leon
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    Leon Member

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    Definately get the waterpump done as it won't add (read shouldn't!) to the cost of the cambelt work. Same labour involved so all you should pay is the cost of the pump at around £40.

    The pump is prone to failing at high mileages and best case could cause overheating issues, at which the replacement will be around £400 (the labour!) and in some cases the plastic parts get into the engine and cause big failures. I had mine done at AMD and they use a metal impellor pump which is much stronger than the OEM ones Audi use. But if you replace it with the standard one it will be good enough for years to come anyhow.
    #34
  35. imported_cd8
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    imported_cd8 Guest

    Just had my cam belt and water pump done at awesome gti and the mechanics there say that they've seen some S3 cambelts go at 65K! They recommend changing them at just 60k.
    #35
  36. ahjones
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    ahjones New Member

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    Feedback from AMD

    For my 80k service

    "The 80,000 mile point is cam belt change so quite a major one in the life of
    the car. We change everything when carrying out a cam belt service, all the
    guide rollers, damper and auxiliary belt. If you do not take this belt and
    braces approach very soon problems will arise. Cost to do this is £445.00+
    VAT using only genuine parts and following Audi labour times.

    Full 80,000 AVS service is £276.00 + VAT again we use only genuine parts for
    this and the correct grade Synta engine oil.
    The car is also due a full Haldex service £100.00 + VAT This is the service
    on the rear 4 wheel drive system.
    As a 1999 car it is due is bi-annual brake fluid change as well £75.00 + VAT
    including the full ABS system flush.
    Sorry to keep going but also probably over due is the 5 year coolant change
    as well, if so add £85.00+ VAT for this service and flush."

    If you add this up with the VAT it's over £1100..... seems like a lot especially as it's full audi history up to now. shouldn't they have done some of this stuff?
    #36
  37. paulbinks
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    paulbinks Member

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    Hi all
    Had a chat with the service bod the other day he says S3 cam belt change in the book at 115k but says to do it at 80k to be safe, they have 2 TT's in with cam belt failure both bellow 60K, he said the belts did not fail it was the hydraulic tensioner that siezed/failed allowing the timing to slip,both cars are having exchange heads fitted as its much cheaper that way.
    Just had a 60K service with haldex and brake fluid change for £253 although i did supply my own oil/filter so the prices from AMD are excessive ie brake fluid £45/haldex £55.
    Cheers "Bingo"
    #37
  38. imported_Nigma
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    imported_Nigma Guest

    I think the reason they use plastic is because of the "give"... If something where to fail then the plastic will give first. If they were metal, it would sieze probably trashing the belt.

    Just speculating here..... I race petrol RC cars, and many of the gears and cogs are plastic. They are constantly being stripped and destryoed. But rather that than than say breaking or twisting the drive shaft.
    #38

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