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Calling all owners of ITG Maxogen S3/A3 2.0T air intakes...

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by warren_S5, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 9, 2010]
    I had the chance last week to do some extensive high load testing of the car, and came up with some of the following findings.

    Lack of linearity in the power delivery

    I was getting a slightly flat/surge power delivery at times depending on what under bonnet temps the car was running at. After extended journeys (where you would expect a good dose of heat soak), I was getting a slightly lazy power delivery, particularly from a mid range acceleration perspective.

    Also I was getting an intermittent but very subtle flat spot at around 5000rpm.

    Investigations

    There are a couple of areas that have always had me scratching my head about the ITG's design

    1) The fact that the pipework is metal
    2) The fact that the pipework connects directly to a metal mounting point on the block (rather than having a dampened mount like the OEM rubbers on the mounting - WHY: potential vibration to the MAF and hence long term damage, and heat transfer from the block)
    3) The heat shield for the filter head whilst good (in theory) restricts the main source of airflow into the engine bay, and hence onto the filter head (noted changes in linearity of power delivery when I changed from the prototype sponge heatshield to the final production unit with a metal plate attached to it)
    4) The fact the pipework goes from huge to 67mm right ahead of the MAF causing potential air disruption that may confuse the MAF readings.

    Whilst I accept I am NO expert in air filtration, intake systems, and am VERY mindful of the constraints within the bay ITG have had to work around (routing / MAF scaling / mounting points etc..), I'd be very interested to hear the points of views of other owners.

    RESOLUTIONS

    1) Heat shielding
    I went onto the bay to purchase some fairly inexpensive heat wrap (10m roll of 2.5" thick heat tape - self adhesive was £16). This tape has a maximum resistance to heat of 1100 degrees.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I wrapped all the main pipes of the intake system (that were metal), as these were getting incredibly hot after extended runs. Yes there is a heat shield to protect from the worst of the turbos heat output, but come to a standstill for any length of time and the pipes just start to cook. I wasn't sure if this may have any affect on the MAF readings as the air temps inside the pipes must increase when the pipe wall temps increase significantly. I made sure to work around all the main points like the MAF housing, and even taped up the underside of the ITG heat shield plate (nearest the turbo).

    After 2 back to back laps of the Ring, I opened the bonnet and put both hands on the pipes of the intake. Whereas before I couldn't have kept my hands on them, they were almost cool to the touch. Yes we hadn't been sat about that long, but we had subsequently queued in traffic to get back to the main car park. I could even hand touch the heat shield plate at the back of the engine which has never been possible after a run before.

    Also there is a second benefit for me here. After the HPFP was installed I started to get a noticeable ticking in the cabin whenever the revs went up over 4000rpm. Wrapping the pipework in this tape has suppressed this significantly leading me to believe the HPFP / some part of the fueling system (maybe fuel return valve) naturally ticks, and this was being picked up and accentuated through the ITG's pipework. It's now barely audible at all. The addition of the tape has stopped some of the shrill sucking sound, but actually means we can better hear the exhaust which isn't a bad thing.

    2) Pipe connections
    The ITG comes with decent jubilee clips, so I'd never really expected any connectivity issues. However when taking the system apart for the first time I noted the pipe going down the back of the bay towards the turbo was incredibly loose (I guess over time with the heat things expand). As I pulled off the pipe which is connected to the metal heat shield plate at the back of the engine, the silicone hose which goes down the back of the engine bay just fell straight off with it leaving me to wonder how tight it was actually connected. Further investigations showed that where the silicone hose connects to the turbo unit, there were oily deposits around the edge of the pipe which as not particularly conducive to the silicone pipe making good contact.

    I cleaned all of the connection points with a citrus degreaser, and then all the meal connections with Halfords Surface cleaner to ensure the best possible connections. I then re-fitted all the (dried and cleaned) silicone hoses and got a Laser flexi-shaft 6mm hex head driver to tighten all of the jubilee clips to a fairly decent torque.

    When it got to the point of connecting the metal pipe that connects the ITG to the engine block (by the batter), I attached a piece of heat resistant tape to both the ITG mounting bracket and onto the engine block to try and limit any heat transfer between the two components.

    It all went back together well, and was about a 1 hour job for a mechanical luddite like myself.

    RESULTS:
    I'm always very mindful I don't want to be wasting people's time or money on follies like this, as time is precious and money can often be better spent than on half-cocked measures which have little real world benefits.

    I have to say, in my personal opinion the car feels quite a bit improved on the road. I inadvertently fixed the idle issue I had by locating a separate pipe leak whilst doing this job, but I don't believe it will affect other changes I have noticed.

    1) The flat spot at 5000rpm appears to be gone
    We did a good few runs on the de-restricted autobahn, and you don't need a VCDS system to give you a feel for malaise in the car. The car now seems to pull harder, more repetitively and for longer since lagging and re-fitting the pipes. On the track there was definitely more acceleration urgency later in the lap, whereas at Castle Combe in October I was finding the car quite lazy by the end of the stint.

    2) The acceleration seems more linear
    I don't think this is actually down to the lagging, but it's hard to tell. I actually believe that this is down to the removal of the heat shield by the filter head. Whilst I believe it does serve a purpose, I'm not convinced it's benefits outweigh it's cons. As my S3 was used as a donor vehicle for testing the ITG, initially I had a fully foam based heat shield for the filter head. When the new kits were produced, to increase the heat resistance and the structural rigidity (the foam ones bent after a while), they added the metal glued plate. I purchased one and straight away noted a change in the acceleration characteristics (slightly lumpier). I'm not sure how much forced air the filter head gets from the fog light intake, but again, this air will not be as directive as the air which comes from the grille area. I am currently contemplating looking at intake scoops which will feed air directly to the filter head whilst masking off the engine block.

    Please note at this point I am NOT suggesting you go hacking the metal plates off your foam backings (it will rip the foam), but it may be worth running with and without to see whether you notice any difference. Below is a picture of the configuration I am currently running.

    [​IMG]

    3) Air disruption to the MAF from pipework diameter changes
    I'm not quite sure how to approach this, but Storm Developments are going to help me install a 67mm pipe that goes back towards the battery from the MAF in due course. Once we have conducted the testing I'll post some results later. It's all guesswork at present, and may deliver no tangible benefits.


    DISCLAIMER

    Please note, the changes made to my set up were in response to hunting out an issue resolution with an idle. The changes I have made seem to have made a marked improvement to repetitive performance on my car acceleration wise, particularly when running hot. It's not rocket science to suggest heat shielding will deliver a benefit as it's well know heat causes inefficiencies with respect to engine performance. I think in set ups like stage 2+ where boost levels and under bonnet temps may be higher, and you are pushing the car further this pipe lagging may offer more benefit than in more standard set ups.

    I can't guarantee it will benefit your car, and to date I have done no data logging to see what the changes equate to. It's all gut feel from being out on the road / track.

    If you do this work, ensure you have the right tools and a level of competence as some of the pipes (like the one to the turbo) can be a pain to fit, and don't rely on a magnet to pick up fallen parts as most of them are stainless!!

    Always be methodical laying out the parts as you take them off, particularly parts like the spacers and washers for the block connections.

    BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, periodically check the connection of your pipework (annually) to ensure it is tight and well sealed.

    I feel given the 1,500 mixed journey miles I've driven in the last week or so I can heartily recommend the heat lagging tape if nothing else (LINK TO PRODUCT).

    Any questions, fire away!

    Cheers

    Warren
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
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  3. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Apr 9, 2010]
    Good write up Warren.

    I have slight concerns about the amount of air the car gets, on my later model the area around the fog light surround is actually blanked off at the rear so the only air that can get to my filter relies on any gaps it can find under the bonnet and around the heat shield.

    I have not really excercised my car since I had the ITG fitted and have not noticed any lazy spots but I am keen to get my car on a dyno again as although strong it doesn't feel as powerful, this may be down to me adjusting to power levels but a Dyno run on a Dyno dynamics has got to help give me an indication.

    Be interested to see what other owners think..
    #2
  4. S3Sport_Guy
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    S3Sport_Guy Member

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    [Apr 9, 2010]
    Hi Warren, Having installed the ITG CAI myself I can see where you are coming from. Personally I dont think there is an issue with MAF vibration because of the direct fitting of pipework to block as in my opinion the silicon hosing plus the use of OEM rubber mountings on the heatshield opposite the fire wall will ultimately soak up any vibrations. Having just checked my car after a run into town the metal pipes are hot to touch, but as are the silicon pipes as well (although not as much it is still significant), I dont think this is solely because of heatsoak from the metal piping but more from the ambient heat from the engine so why not lag all piping as an idea? I also dont think having all pipes in black is helping the cause! I am also of the opinion that big is not always best as far as piping is concerned, and this view partly relates to your concerns re airflow bottlenecks at the MAF - if the air is not being consumed by the turbo in the quantities that are being made available by the increase in pipe diameters, then sensible reasoning would suggest that the air will heat up the longer it stays in the CAI - did ITG spec the system up knowing what the turbo intake capacity is and then designing the correct pipe sizing? Only my off the top of my head views:)

    Question: Does the turbo suck air in or does it rely on air being rammed in? If it relys on air being rammed in then the ITG system is flawed at the filter. At least with the old OEM set-up the air to a certain extent is rammed in until it hits the filter at the rear near the firewall - with present ITG set up the air does not get the opportunity to be rammed in due to location. Something to think about:)
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
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  5. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Apr 9, 2010]
    I passed a link to this thread onto Andy at ITG so hopefully he will respond with his views.
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  6. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Apr 9, 2010]
    I've got an ITG and have noticed this heatsoak on the metal piping - but you get it with all intakes and the benefits of trying to combat heatsoak with wrapping are tangible and real but probably not worth any more power or speed in the real world. In this thread http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=835&highlight=gold tape result I measured temperatures with Vagcom (or whatever the latest acronym is) before and after wrapping in gold reflective tape and there is a difference empirically but I doubt it is noticeable myself. I see you have ditched the heatshield altogether - that's interesting, especially given that the BDM intake which is based on the ITG design also doesn't use one. I think if you are feeling gains in the way the car drives - great. But I can't say (personally speaking) that my car has felt any different or faster under any of these combinations:

    - Forge CAI unwrapped
    - Forge CAI wrapped
    - Forge CAI wrapped minus heatshield
    - ITG CAI unwrapped with heatshield

    I've also logged intake temperatures and g/s air intake under all these conditions - also no difference.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
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  7. KRL
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    KRL Member

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    [Apr 9, 2010]
    Good thread :icon_thumright:

    I don't own an ITG so I cannot comment on it directly but I can offer some comments....

    Metal pipework - I believe ITG did look at ceramic coating the metal pipe work. It was tried on SteveP's GTI:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I think the cost of ceramic coating the pipework was too much for it to be used on the full production version.

    I do tend to agree with this as the leading edge of the bonnet is a high pressure zone and an excellent place to feed cold air.

    Turbulence will cause problems with airflow and MAF readings however I am sure ITG will have tested this during development to make sure turbulence is not a problem. To my eyes the ITG has smooth bends and should not have any problems with turbulence.

    Regarding g/s and what you should expect to see if heat soaking was causing a problem - The g/s reading you see with VCDS means grams per second of air. The higher the g/s reading the better because your engine will be getting more air for combustion. How does heatsoak effect this? - Heatsoak will warm the air before it reaches the turbo and will give you a lower g/s reading. Cooler air is more dense due to it containing more oxygen and will give you more g/s.

    However.......when the car is moving the engine bay should be well ventilated therefore minimising the effect of any heatsoak. So heasoak should only really be a problem when the car has been stood still for a while and you then try to set off quickly.
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  8. S3Sport_Guy
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    S3Sport_Guy Member

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    [Apr 9, 2010]
    Yes I agree and one good by-product of removing the OEM intake is that it frees up the original inlet - air that would have been otherwise channeled down to the OEM filter is now free to cool the engine compartment.

    From my previous post does anyone know whether the turbo is a push or pull air syatem i.e. does the turbo take what it needs or uses what it is given?

    Lastly - previous post mentions ceramic coatings to metal piping - the silicon hose also gets hot as well - and can cause as much heat soak problems, if not more, due to greater surface area in relation to metal versus silicon.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
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  9. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 10, 2010]
    To be honest, it's more been a case of us firefighting a couple of issues with my car than thinking there is anything untoward with the ITG product.

    I actually think it's probably the best product out there, but Storm and I have been doing a pragmatic run around the car to identify an issue with long term performance drop off (yes you would expect it, but it's been a bit excessive), and running the car in various states to see how it runs / what the effects are.

    I guess this thread for me was to share my findings and thoughts along the journey, as through explorations you sometimes find stuff. I think a poignant point that has been raised by S3Sport_Guy above, is the point about the turbo sucking air - as far as I am aware the turbo will suck air as hard as it needs it (the large filter head media increases this capability), but if you can feed it directional air rather than available air, then that is what I intend to do. This is no big secret to Andy as this was part of his design considerations for a more expensive option as he would have liked to have relocated the battery and fitted a large intake (a bit like the ones in the ITG office pictured below):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Let me be absolutely clear here I am not knocking the ITG product in any way. I think it's fantastic. However I was there talking to Andy when they were fitting the kit to the car, so I am aware of some of the limitation I chose to afford myself (e.g. paying the current RRP rather than double the amount for carbon intake and battery relocation). Therefore as part of the process of fault finding a slightly 'sporadic' and 'inconsistent' issue which may or may not be related to anything to do with the intake system (probably not), we are just doing some trial and error tests.

    This isn't so much about getting the perfect figures on the car from a VCDS perspective, its about HOW the car feels (e.g. as linear and as consistent as possible) - I'm a great believer that just because a car posts 'within parameter' figures it won't make the car feel great on the road (it only takes a service from Audi to know that!!)

    In the last week we have looked at the filter /intake, and next week we will move on to something else (could be WMI, could be spray bar.....). Whilst I'm absolutely happy for Andy to have a link to this thread, I'm not sure how this thread will help him as whilst it may be useful for him to pass comment and thoughts if he feels so inclined, the reason I offered the disclaimer above is I want to share my findings with other owners as to stuff we've looked at, but it isn't about getting ITG to change their design philosophy for the intake. They are the experts, and for the price I've been prepared to pay, I've got a great product. Lagging the pipes is dirt cheap, and does no harm whatsoever. Taking the heat shield away from the filter head...ditto.

    The most important thing for me out of this thread is that is people check the quality of connections of hoses every 12 months as part of general maintenance (as the dealer won't do that), then it was worth writing. The rest is just a sharing of my experiences as we fiddle about trying to resolve some little intermittent issues with the car that I am trying to iron out.
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  10. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Apr 10, 2010]
    Interesting read this. I agree that measuring stuff with VDcom or whatever is not what it's about - all we care about is how our cars drive. The point I was making (obliquely) was that I've tried quite a few intake solutions and variations and none of them have changed the FEEL of the car (experientially) and VDcom shows that none of them have altered the RUNNING of the car (measured scientifically). So I'd be surprised if the intake was the source of your problem personally. Of course any aftermarket intake solution is better than the OEM one - experientially and scientifically. I've not noticed the ticking you refer to but that seems like it could have been the problem. Good luck with it Warren.
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  11. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 10, 2010]
    When I went from OEM to Carbonia intake (and stage 2), I was getting a dull point at 4,000rpm and the pull above this was quite weak. Changing to the ITG removed this completely, but as the car settled and Stage 2+ was loaded I started to get a slight hesitation at 5,100rpm (I'm not alone with this, about 7 people are also getting this too). Revo have seen this, but saw nothing untoward on the logs.

    We have some plans to look at the RS4 fuel mods (which I forgot to mention above), but as we are investigating we've been making a few little tweaks to see if we can iron out any potential issues. Strangely, and as a complete side effect we actually prefer the sound in the cabin now as it's less 'darth vader' sounding under heavy acceleration.

    There is another thread on WMI here which again resonates the benefits of this product, so this may be what I actually need.

    I'm a bit worried since being at the Ring that the DMF may be on it's way out as I'm getting a vibration through the car (you can feel it through the pedals when driving, particularly when cold), so I think a DMF may be due in May, so I may as well do the clutch in tandem.
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  12. KRL
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    KRL Member

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    [Apr 10, 2010]
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  13. Lambchop
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    Lambchop New Member

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    [Apr 11, 2010]
    Warren, Thanks for this awesome post mate

    I used to have this weird noise from the turbo when the boost kicked in ... I actually thought my turbo was on its way out

    So after reading you post I decided to give your Tips a try . I removed the foam heat shield and checked all the clamps . Every single clamp was lose . I re-tightened them and the one on the turbo
    After doing that I went on a longish trip ... MAN Oh MAn .... This car of mine has come alive
    I also had a weird dead spot at about 4000rpm Needless to say the car makes more power than ever
    Its pulling like a freight train at the moment . And Darth Vader is having a full on conversation again :rockwoot:
    Ill try get some heat shielding in the week and see how that works out . but Thanks again mate :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2010
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  14. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 11, 2010]
    No problem at all mate, glad to see it has helped you out.
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  15. Lambchop
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    Lambchop New Member

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    [Apr 11, 2010]
    I had a look at the clamps again and they seem to be coming lose . Ill have them all replaced this week ...
    I cant believe how much stronger the car is pulling though :)
    #14
  16. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 11, 2010]
    I ordered some new clamps from Demon Tweeks today, so be interesting to see if they offer better consistency.

    Next week fuel return valve and clamps!!
    #15
  17. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 12, 2010]
    Awesome thread and really interesting read for me as I am just starting off down the long (and expensive) road of modifying my S3. Full TBE - tick. Revo stage 1 next and then CAI, so this is a great read. Thanks.
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  18. Haz1
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    Haz1 Member

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    I've been thinking about getting the ITG induction kit, do you think ceramic coating the metal parts of the kit from zirotec would be worth the extra (about £75 for primary coating or £122 for slightly better performance coating) over heat shield tape. The reason I'm really concerned is since the metal pipes of the kit are right next to the engine block :scared2:
    #17
  19. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    http://www.agriemach.com/default.php?cPath=7_103

    Could be worth whacking some of this on it.

    Or you could wait just a little bit longer, as this may become an option on the kit ???.....:eyebrows:
    #18
  20. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    Disturbing news about the clamps when you consider noone has reported any issues with Evoms etc, if ITG plan to address this I think all customers should be given the option to upgrade, almost like a recall.

    The whole idea behind the ITG air filter and the other products is the fact that you are supposed to be able to fit and forget for min 2 years, I'm a little disappointed TBH.
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  21. Haz1
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    Haz1 Member

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    I was aware of this lizard skin, andy told me about it but its a spray on and zirotec do plasma coating which is much more effective. Plus it costs £88 per gallon, and zirotec might charge me £100 since im an existing customer, so very confused which way to go. Plus would cermaic coating be better then the heat shield tape?

    Ps revealing secrative plans about ITG's possible future products, there might be a ITG stage 2 induction kit (more on that later) :eyebrows:
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
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  22. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    I think the best course of action would be to wait patiently for a little while, seeing what you know, it may take a lot of effort out of your hands :yes:
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  23. Haz1
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    Haz1 Member

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    Well if you put it that way then, yeah might just wait for the lizard skin, is that stuff really good compared to their own agriemach heat shield tape?
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  24. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    To be absolutely honest, the coatings will be far more durable than my tape approach. I was after a quick fix as such and needed some noise suppression to pinpoint other issues. My crappy tape seems to do an inordinately good job of cooling, so this stuff can only be better.
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  25. Haz1
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    Haz1 Member

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    Hope so, the only reason im little skeptical of the Lizard skin coating is due to this graph on zirotec's website:

    [​IMG]

    So even though the ceramic paint will bring temperatures down, but zircotec is on another level. So £100 for the performance range might not seem to bad, since it will cost £88 for the gallon of lizard skin. What do you think?
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  26. S3 Big Andy
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    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    I noticed your systems differs from the one that I was going to have in that there is no foam blank? at the rear of the filter as is run on all the other VAG stuff they do you are going to get warm air bleed due to this...
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  27. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    I have two 'heatshields' as such. The first generation foam panel, then the second gen unit with the metal plate. My first gen unit was fine (if a touch unsightly), but when I got the second one with the metal heatshield on it, it 'felt' like the filter was struggling a little for as good a supply of air as it had with the Gen. 1 full foam heatshield.

    I thought I would try without, and TBH I've seen no ill effects as yet. Off to see Andy and chew the cud in a week or so, so see what we find really.

    Good to hear from you Andy, are you well mate? Still enjoy looking back at the photos of your old car - mega!
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  28. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 20, 2010]
    [​IMG]

    New clampage has arrived today (check out in the picture the standard jubilee clip width alongside the new batch inter cooler hose clamps!)

    Hopefully this will stop the the slackness I was getting in the standard jubilee clips once they had been on for a while / heated up.

    Probably overkill, but there's nothing like breaking a nut with a sledgehammer.
    #27
  29. Haz1
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    Haz1 Member

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    [Apr 20, 2010]
    I take it the standard clips are not too good, where did you get these from, how much and what are the sizes? :jump:

    Thanks
    #28
  30. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 20, 2010]
    flea-bay

    5 x 105-113mm hose clips
    2 x 92-100mm hose clips
    2 x 86-94mm hose clips

    I measured the outer circumferences of all the pipes and the used the pie formula's to calculate the diameters so I'm hoping they will be right.

    jbimotorsport was the ebay seller (Item: 380223895323)

    You choose 10 clips of any diameter you want and a day or so later they arrive. Will update what they seal like when I get 5 mins to fit them!
    #29
  31. c41lum
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    c41lum Member

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    [Apr 20, 2010]
    slightly off topic but has anybody thought about changing the MAF for say an 80mm one? obviously the map would need altering to suit but would it be worth it?

    i know the VX lads used to change from the 70mm on the astra gsi to the 80mm one from the vxr
    #30
  32. Lambchop
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    Lambchop New Member

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    [Apr 20, 2010]
    I noticed the thread on the ITG clamps seem very shallow compared some other clamps i have lying around
    Its as if the thread isnt strong enough to clamp down on the piping

    @Warren ,.. Those clamps are epic mate :)
    #31
  33. *ace*
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    *ace* New Member

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    [Apr 21, 2010]
    Great write up bud, thanks for this info :icon_thumright:

    I was also worried about the amount of air being directed to an engine bay intake vs my FORGE CAI in my GTI which sat at the fog grill.
    I purchased some 100mm flex ram tubing (thanks Rabbit222), removed the fog grill and fitted the tubing.
    Needless to say, it works very well. Popping the bonnet directly after a spirited run i could feel the head of my filter was quite hot now it remains much cooler than previously.
    #32
  34. Rabbit222
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    Rabbit222 Member

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    [Apr 21, 2010]
    Warren,

    I had the ITG kit fitted to my S3. I noticed this flatspot at 5k rpm too...my solution was simple. I removed my fog grill to see if there was sufficient room behind it to be able to fit a ram air tube that would force feed air onto the filter. My initial choice was 100mm diameter piping but due to my Forge cooler had to settle on a smaller diameter. If memory serves me correct I eventually settled on 63mm. I routed the pipe so that it would feed air directly underneath the filter. Put everything back together and took it for a 45minute drive.Initial impressions was that my cars power felt more linear and that the flat spot was gone. Car felt stronger up top too because of the additional airflow getting into the closed off chamber. When i got back home and checked the filter area, the metal plate was as cool as a refrigerator and even had moisture on it. The entire chamber was way cooler than without the ram air tube. You guys should give it a try, I chatted to Andy about this a while back too.
    #33
  35. *ace*
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    *ace* New Member

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    [Apr 21, 2010]
    Great write up bud, thanks for this info :icon_thumright:

    I was also worried about the amount of air being directed to an engine bay intake vs my FORGE CAI in my GTI which sat at the fog grill.
    I purchased some 100mm flex ram tubing (thanks Rabbit222), removed the fog grill and fitted the tubing.
    Needless to say, it works very well. Popping the bonnet directly after a spirited run i could feel the head of my filter was quite hot now it remains much cooler than previously.
    #34
  36. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Apr 21, 2010]
    This seems to be the way forward especially on the newer version S3 as the area behind my fogs is blanked off so air flow/entry has to be restricted, fancy Audi changing the design slightly without letting ITG know !! How rude :)

    I will investigate the ducting route this weekend, hopefully Warren will be along soon with an update as I believe in ITG pretty soon to look at a revision/enhancement.
    #35
  37. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 22, 2010]
    PLEASE NOTE

    Do not buy the clamps shown in earlier post from e-bay - they are perfect qualitywise, but they are NOT the right size.

    The 100mm clip is just too small, the 105mm is too big.

    I'd guess the large clamps sit at 102mm.

    Spoke to the guy who was a very nice bloke, and he has agreed to refund as he cannot get this size (only 92-100 or 105-113)

    The search continues, next stop Demon Tweeks.

    In the meantime to whet your appetites:

    [​IMG]
    #36
  38. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Apr 22, 2010]
    I've not been following this clamps chat - just picked it up now.
    Whilst installing my ITG I ruined a couple of my clamps trying to squeeze them round the hose which sits next to the battery. Drove down to B&Q and paid about £2 for a pair of clamps which are a perfect fit and have stayed tighht in the 2 / 3 months they've been on. Didn't give it a thought. Couldn't tell you the exact size - just grabbed the ones off the B&Q peg which looked about right and hey presto: faultless clampage.
    #37
  39. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 22, 2010]
    Are they standard jubilee clips or slightly bigger / more heavy duty?
    #38
  40. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Apr 22, 2010]
    Got to admit beginning to wish I'd stuck with my tried and tested Evoms now as this is fast becoming yet another Mod headache, cheap ITG anyone ?
    #39
  41. KRL
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    KRL Member

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    [Apr 22, 2010]
    Another thing to bear in mind with the jubilee clips is that they should be stainless steel. Over time water/salt etc is going to get into your engine bay and you do not want the clamps to be rusting up.
    #40

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