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Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Just Plain Old, Feb 2, 2009.
Do you support the protestors in their efforts to achieve the same......?
You've got to haven't you?
I applaud their solidarity. I don't think we need a Scargil type fiasco but they/we should stand for what is effectively our right.
Problem is the governments have sold us up the river so far with this Euro **** that we are cornered wih no obvious way out. Seems to me that the EU has a 'great idea' and we are the only fcukers who actually adhere to it.
Times are hard, jobs are a premium of course feelings will run high and these guys should be supported.
I stand behind them (albeit 200 miles behind) 100%. I welcomed the influx of eastern european workers to a certain extent because there was work to be done and someone had to do it, but as soon as jobs become more scarce they should be given to British workers every time.
If an MP stands up and says the same they will be accused of using the language of the BNP, just like Margaret Hodge was. It's therefore up to the masses to take a stand and announce their displeasure.
I support the workers too. We live on a tiny, crowded little island and when the economy is stifled like it is, it's just madness to award a contract to invite foreign workers to do the same jobs. I know of someone (British citizen) who was refused entry back into the US after a Christmas break in the UK. He was returning to a job that the authorities decided an American could do, so he was sent back home on the next flight. If the Yanks can do it, even when they have a big country, surely we can too?
Nope, no chance.
"British jobs for British workers" - as a concept - is obviously a desirable thing which, in an ideal world, we would all be supporting and striving to achieve. "British jobs for British workers" - as a political policy, however, is a meaningless slogan and completely at odds with the law as it is presently drafted.
It would actually have made more sense if Brown had said it the other way around : "British workers for British jobs":
How many of us on here support car assembly workers in the UK, huh?
Let's keep that in mind before we blame it all on a) the government, past and present; b) the BNP, or c) "all this Euro ****".
In what sense? I don't follow.
OK, here's a clue. Where was your car made?
Am I right in thinking you're refering to the fact that there are thousands of jobs in the UK which are created by foreign companies, especially those from Japan? So in essense they're Japanese jobs for British workers. And this is of course a very good thing for us.
But this time the shoe is on the other foot and we're not happy. We want to have our cake and eat it.
Am I right?
No, I'm reflecting on the fact that I, much like most people on this forum, spent my money on a car built in a German factory by German workers being employed to do German jobs.
My point being that much as our hearts might agree with the notion of "British jobs for British workers", our heads don't necessarily agree when the time comes to spend our money.
Right I'm even more confused now! So what if you wanted one of the models that are made in the Brussels factory?
I didn't buy my car specifically because it was made in Germany. I'm sure most people are the same. Yes there have been arguements that people wouldn't want their car to be made in the Chinese factory but then most realised it wouldn't actually make a difference. Ultimately if it keeps the prices down then so what?
I don't see what point you're trying to make though.
And I can't make you.
Well perhaps you could if you explained it a bit better.
I'm not disagreeing with your arguement, I may in fact agree with you completely, I just don't understand what you're trying to say.
I may be having a complete brain fart of course so anyone else jump in an explain if they can.
You're talking two different arguments here mate.
British jobs for British workers is about not employing cheaper EU labour when we have an ever increasing number of unemployed workers here that are perfectly able to do the work.
Buying British and supporting UK employers is a different kettle of fish altogether.
Oh, I agree they're separate arguments, but I think they're two sides of the same coin, so a debate about one is incomplete without the other.
Not really IMHO.
from what I read somewhere else:
is the above quote a fact?
well surely Total are paying someone and it will eventually trickle down to the workers.
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Before you start running around and shouting about how unfairly British workers are treated, ask yourselves one question: Why is that foreign workers are being chosen to do the job? I don't think it's because they look better, is it??
Employing a British builder over a Lithuanian, Latvian, Italian or whatever, will not guarantee you better build quality or a job that is completed on time. It will almost always result in a bigger bill though.
Keeping costs down is on everyone's mind in the business world, especially in current economic climate. Can someone tell me if employing a British worker over anyone else, just because of his/her nationality, makes business sense? I don't think so.
Let's face it - money makes the world go round... So get over it.
yip usual situation its all money, money fukn money. i have none, boo hoo
Yes it will result in a bigger bill,the british builder will be spending their money HERE and not in another country so helping their economy resulting in loss of revenue in a shop/pub/garage.
And that other comment is hypocrisy to your previous as giving the job to a Lithuanian will make our part of the world to cease going round as we'll have **** all.
hi all where i live we are seeing an increase in eastern european builders plumbers electrician roofers posting leaflets through letter boxes advertising there services for wait for it £6.00 per hour. now heres my argument i know of dwellings flats houses where you have 6 to 10 eastern europeans living i presume they all chip in towards the rent and bills so what you have is multiple income going in this is why they can afford to charge £6.00 per hour would anyone class this as fare competition we all know how expensive this country is for housing gas electric council tax water road tax etc can you expect a british builder with with a family to match this hourly rate if as some post have mentioned that foreign builders are better value well now you know why. also if you have a problem with there work ie cracked brickwork leaking roof 10 years after the jobs finished it is highly unlikely that you will be able to find them the company i used to work for have put right faults 10 years after completion. you will notice i said used to work for thats because we all got laid off on xmas eve i wonder why
Lets face it leshkin - You don't understand the argument....!!
A large part of it is about self determination,,, that is, not allowing unelected bureaucrats in Brussels to dictate who 'can' and cannot work in this Country......... (under EU law Gordon Broon-shirts slogan of British jobs for British workers is illegal. Even if he meant it, which he didn't,,,,, he can't do a damn thing about it because we're in the EU...!)
Part of it is about 'protectionism',,,, which despite the current Dictatorships insistance is not the same as 'free trade'............
Anyway. You're right about one thing........... As far as the 'global elite' are concerned, it's all about money,,,, and as the independant 'Nation State' is the main thing that stands in their way, it should destroyed at all costs............ Hence the EU, and all it's laws that no-one voted for, or were allowed a referendum on,,,, says it's illegal to have 'British jobs for British workers'........
Naturally there is a cure......
Mate, the fraction of the money that Lithuanian builder sends home is insignificant, compared to the money he spends in the same pubs, clubs, bars and shops that you and I might go to... Do you really think that he goes to work, earns his money and every single bit of it goes out of this country? I don't think so. Everyone's mileage varies, but I know many people, who moved to UK to settle here and have no intention of sending their money elsewhere.
Vorhees, I suspect you meant that I might be contradicting myself? I do not see my previous comment as hypocrisy. For reference, here is it's full definition:
"Hypocrisy (or the state of being a hypocrite) is the act of preaching a certain belief, religion or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself. For example, a smoker would be hypocritical if he or she were to criticise someone else for smoking cigarettes." Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
Just Plain Old, I understand the argument perfectly, just trying to get you to see that the problem is not really to do with workers coming from another nation. In my view, the main reason why this whole mess has happened is that UK workforce is quickly becoming outclassed (arguably) and priced-out by competing workforce from abroad.
The key to solving this, in my opinion, is not separation from EU (a completely different argument). The key is for UK workforce to become more educated/trained and dedicated to producing better quality work than the other nations, therefore being capable of exporting it's product more effectively abroad. Simple economics mate.
An example (not a great one, but here goes...): I work for a large managed hosting company, which employs many people, with only about a third of it's 550-strong workforce being native Brits. The rest are Australian, South African, Lithuanian, Russian, Indian, Pakistani, Ukrainian, Finish, French, German, Kenyan. Why??? Because we struggle to find people in UK, who have the experience, knowledge and willingness to work hard and earn over twice the UK national average wage. I love working here and have many friends from many cultures, which makes me feel a better person for it.
I spent most of my childhood growing up in Dagenham and know all about BNP and it's members. If you think that the the natural cure for the problem is www.bnp.co.uk, then you might as well rename the title of this thread to "British jobs for white British workers". Nationalism never worked and never will, as much as some people might wish it. The funniest thing about nationalism is that it only starts to become popular when a country is having issues with it's economy and people start to look for someone to blame. Does this remind you of Germany in 1920s?
Anyway, we live in a country, where we are all entitled to our own opinion, at least for now, and I will keep to my own beliefs while everyone else keeps to theirs.
I thank you guys for your time to reply to my post and hope you consider this when you are planning to build a conservatory in your house or go to a mechanic: (quality argument aside as it goes both ways) Will you go for a quote that is 20-30% higher, just because it's from a British person or will you go to a cheap foreigner and spend the saved money on a trip to Spain?
I rest my case and am now going back to why I originally joined this site, which is learning about my lovely S3 and sharing my experiences with others. :icon_thumright:
I have done the travelling bit around the uk working and I know that you don't spend your cash whilst earning it or else its pointless maybe come the weekend you spend it with your family,I worked with a few Polish guys and sure they went out but hardly spent a penny as they were saving for when they went 'home' every 2 months.
Hummmm........... I'll stick with 'don't understand the argument'. However I agree, we are all entitled to our opinions, and should be free to express them. Wouldn't life be dull if it were otherwise...?
Sadly the current dictatorship don't share that view.........!!
the problem is mainly because of Italians and Portugese being employed. Isn't Portugal and Italy part of the EU which allows free movement of workers?
the isle of man have a very good system in place basicaly any company over there have to advertise on the island for a manx resident to fill the vacancy first. if no one can be found they are then allowed to advertise outside the isle of man but they have to prove that they have satisfied all the rules regarding employing a manx worker these rules are strictly adhered to if a company is found to have flouted the rules it will be heaverly find. personaly i believe this to be a very fare system it is a system that stopped me moveing over there and possibily taking a residents job unfortunately. so why cant we do this here i hear you ask because we are in the european union and the isle of man are not. perhaps someone in the isle of man can clarify this more clearly
obviously this is only my personal opinion
My company's employ around 1000 cleaning staff working 5 days a week, we would love the British workers to fill the jobs, but they wont! why?
Because cleaning is below them most would rather get Job seekers allowance than clean, and due to Tendering rules and TUPE I would be paying them the same rate!!
I even had a Area Supervisors position going good money, van, petrol, ddo you think I could fill it? Nah, nope nada, thats why we use and in fact need the euro workers because without them your places of work would be shitholes!
Um tend to agree
I think the Premier League British footballers should go on strike too.
(i can't find anyone complaining about this one)
The problem is, as you rightly say, the 'benefits culture', created and nurtured by this Goverment......... Why they have done this is part of a bigger issue.
The solution is simple, make the 'differential' between sitting on your arse, and doing any sort of work, worthwhile.
Only 2 things are required;
1) After, say, 6 Months on the dole, you are then required to do 5 Days 'community work' to earn your benefits.
2) Again, after 6 Months, reduce the level of benefits paid to 'subsistance' level only, maybe even food vochers. Either way not enough for plasma TVs etc etc....
You then have a clear advantage in taking even 'cleaning' jobs. Simple!
I think my team already has.
How much do you pay an hour? And how many hours is the average week?