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Britain=RAG ORDER

Discussion in 'Rants & Raves' started by robbyS3, Aug 24, 2007.

  1. batwad
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    batwad Member

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    Well it's hard not to agree with something that's been so carefully crafted to appeal to everybody that it's completely lost all meaning! This isn't the sort of guff that a political party suitable for running the country should be putting out. It sounds like the sort of pseudo-politics that Cameron pumps out all the time. It's not policy, it's marketing twaddle to seduce the sensationalist tabloid reading morons.
    What does that mean? Absolutely nothing! Is that any different from any other party? No, of course everyone wants "the main priority of the police" to be the prevention of crime. Also, punishment isn't the responsibility of the police; it's the courts.
    What a laughably impractical suggestion. So PC Plod can keep up with criminals in their Evos can he? Never mind the fact that the standard of driving on our roads is falling, let's reduce the number of traffic police. Great shout.
    Headline grabbing anyone? It's pretty much universally accepted that the CSA is a complete joke. Is this any reason to vote for the BNP?
    I am completely against the death penalty so there's no way I'm ever going to agree with this.
    So we'll have to pay more tax to plug the gap. Super! None of these points are reasons to vote for the BNP and I feel sorry for the poor misguided fools that do so.
    #41
  2. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    The point is many of these cases shouldn't ever reach the courts. They could be dealt with at a lower level, thereby saving time and money.

    It is different from other parties in that sentence "abolish all politically-correct distractions from this mission". If you honestly think that there are certain aspects of policing, and rules that have to be followed, which are not simply there to protect the force from being accused of racism (even though they're actually common sense) then you've been living in a cave.

    The police spend so much time doing paperwork it's unbelievable! Recently there was a policeman on tv who told a story: a woman phoned to say she thought her ex boyfriend had stolen her cat. 5 minutes later she phoned back to say she'd made a mistake and found her cat. The policeman then ended up writing a 40 page report as there was so much he had to include in it. And that's just one example that we know of.

    It doesn't mention traffic police. They're a different group. And I would hope most policies would include increasing the numbers of traffic police since they've been dramatically reduced under labour.

    What is needed is a more public service from the police. On the streets and accessible to the public. A force that's in your face and force to rely on a make the public feel safer. Not a cop car that drives past every-so-often with 2 fat coppers in. But of course cops need cars, so there would certainly have to be a baseline of police patrolling, ready to react to crime.

    Although I don't fully agree with the policy, it's only a short statement so there's a lot more to it than stated here. And the current system doesn't work so a change is needed.

    I have been there myself where I've been in town, seen a crowd causing a bit of trouble, and wanted to find a copper on foot who could intervene. Imagine being 70 and feeling the same.

    It may be headline grabbing but at least it's correct. And the current government have the power to change it but haven't done so.

    I also disagree to a certain extent. I think life (as in LIFE) imprisonment would be a far greater punishment. But that costs a lot of money. And what for? And I think the victims or the victims' families have a right to see someone punished properly. I'm sure there are many people in society who agree with "an eye for an eye".

    Is it right that a criminal who, for example steals a car, crashes it and runs away, gets punished by losing his license for a year (not that that'll stop him driving) and a fine of £500? What about the cost of the police work involved? What about the upset to the car owner? What about all of us who have to pay extra insurance to cover the cost of replacing or repairing the car?

    It's a complete joke. More tax to plug it? Bollocks, we pay too much already. How about the criminal is fined 20k for a new car. And he'll pay a certain amount every month until it is paid off. And if he doesn't want to work he can work for the council in one of the jobs noone wants to do, or he can go to prison. Yes the prison is paid for by the tax payer but it'd work out a lot cheaper in the long run. Especially as it'd act as a huge deterrent!


    These points alone are not a reason to vote BNP no. These points are only highlighted on this thread as they're pretty pertinent after recent events. But these points are amongst many which are basically common sense, and that most of us agree on I think. But there are a few of their policies I don't agree on. But at least they have the main points right and they can see a problem and know how to fix it.

    Although these policies are from the 2005 elections, they're far older than that. David Cameron has been speaking a lot of sense recently, but that's exactly the point, it's only recent, he's obviously seen how pissed off the general population is and is acting on it. There's nothing wrong with that of course but it seems a little too late to win my vote.
    #42
  3. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    I couldn't have put it any better staz.

    Batwad we know staz is/was a senior rank in the forces so IMHO I can understand his viewpoint. What's your background; then we might be able to understand your viewpoints a bit more .
    #43
  4. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    I am still yeah. But to be honest I don't think that really has much of an influence on me. Apart from that I joined at 16 and didn't end up growing up fully with the bad lads I knew. I learned right from wrong. But then I look at my friends now and nearly all of them do too. Just one dodgy character that's all.
    #44
  5. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    Staz .... I'm forces as well (well TA Officer).... The reason I mentioned the background bit is because IMHO most people who support the lines mentioned in your posts from the bnp probably had/have some form of discipline when growing up... ie a strong family (the army can be classed as one).

    They know right from wrong and have good morals, as well as decent common sense. Hence why I find it easy to know where you're coming from with your comments.
    #45
  6. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes I can understand where you're coming from, I was just saying I think I'd feel the same if I hadn't joined. I was talking about it with my civvie friends only last week.
    #46
  7. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    true
    #47
  8. silver75
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    silver75 Big Ron

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    [​IMG]
    #48
  9. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    Correct!

    But thanks lol
    #49
  10. batwad
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    batwad Member

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    I'm just an average Joe; no connection with the forces, the courts, the government or politics. I believe in common sense, respect and moderation. I object to fascism, racism and extremism - things which the BNP put high on their agenda.

    The intention of my post was to remind people that the BNP are not the solution to anybody's problems. We can solve all these problems without resorting to their extremist methods.
    #50
  11. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    How?
    #51
  12. Just Plain Old
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    Just Plain Old Active Member

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    Batwad,

    In reply to all that gumph you wrote earlier.......... As you rightly surmise what is in the BNP Policy is short on detail, (that's the case with all parties) but that's not the point! The point is,,, that no-one here can be in any doubt that if the BNP were in power they would 'actually' do what they say........ Where as the current mob have been in power for 10 Looooong years, had plenty of time to 'sort things out', and have only succeeded in turning this Country into a crime ridden cess pit......!!!
    #52
  13. StaffsS3
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    StaffsS3 Flat Out

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    Interesting thread.......

    Just to give you a few examples of the crap us coppers have to deal with.

    Last month a known Heroin addict with pre-cons as long as my arm came into my custody block. He was interviewed and charged with rock solid evidence for breaking into four cars and I had the pleasure of refusing him bail. He spent the night in the police cells to appear before the magistrates the next morning. I quite rightly expected the scum bag to be sent down, only to find he had been given conditional bail. What a waste of time and resources....... :keule:

    Also over the past 12 months we have seen an influx of Eastern Europeans who like nothing more than to drink drive or try and fight the world after a few too many. The winners? The interpreters who cost a fortune as none of them can remember how to speak English.
    The Losers? Us, the British tax payers who have to foot the bill.

    The country is really going down the tubes, I work hard and play the property ladder along with the wife purely to be able to live in a village the chavs and other scum can't afford. I know of quite a few colleagues who are going to Canada, Australia and New Zealand. It's just my humble opinion of course but is based on an 11 year career so far.

    I'm going now after that little rant. The joys of a Friday night shift as Custody Sgt fast approach..........more pissed up thick f@*k Wits......Oh deep joy.
    :salute:
    #53
  14. robbyS3
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    robbyS3 New Member

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    At the end of the day, we need a government that grabs this country by the bollocks and turns it on its arse, instead of lining thier own flaming pockets, and stinging the tax payer for every penny he's got, My old boy is in the next tax bracket up from me-last mth he paid nearly £6000 in tax, and the country continues to go tits up!!!!!
    #54
  15. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes why do the rich have to pay ridiculously higher tax payments than anyone else when they generally use far less resources?!
    #55
  16. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Eh? I pay the same rate of tax as the Duke of Westminster, I wouldn't really class myself as rich. There should be a higher tax bracket IMO for people earning serious money. While I don't agree with the nonsensicle 90%+ tax of the 1970's, is it any wonder resources like the NHS are struggling when the Tories reduced it down to a flat 40%? Especially when you consider 90% of the wealth in this country is earned/owned by a measly 5% of the population

    Anyone (and everyone) can make easy promises to sort out everything that's wrong in the UK at the moment, but implementing them is a slightly more challenging task (as labour have found out to their cost).
    Everyone (apparently) believes the laughable garbage in the tabloids, gets half the story, and starts ranting about the government. The main problem in this country is downright criminal parenting, and no law or political party can do anything about that in the short term. To try and pass that particularly large buck on to the government or the police or the teachers or video games is spineless negligence in the extreme.

    Yes you can go with the hard line BNP approach, but just remember that is exactly what happened in a certain European country in the early 1930's and it didn't turn out too well.
    #56
  17. robbyS3
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    robbyS3 New Member

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    its not the complete bnp approach thats needed, but some of the issues, such as harsher punishment for criminals-you can see theres method behind the madness IN ONLY SOME OF THE POINTS,im not 100% bnp at all i.e blatant racism fascism etc i dont agree with. But sometimes we need a political party thats willing to really target the legal system and immigration etc. so that something does get done!!
    #57
  18. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    Just because you're in the same bracket doesn't mean you pay the same tax. I don't know what the DoW's income is but he probably pays a lot more.

    Why should they pay?

    If I started a business and it went global and I raked in a forture why should I have to pay stupid amounts on tax, not just on income but on everything I buy? Just so that money can be spent on other people including scummers who don't do a days work. I don't mind paying tax, after all it pays my own wages, but why should the stupidly rich pay for the stupidly lazy to sit on their arse?

    If I were rich I'd be less of a strain on the country as I'd go private for healthcare, have my own security guys instead of using the police etc etc...

    I'm happy to live in a society where the rich help the poor to a certain extent but right now there is a blatent abuse of this system going on and it's wrong.

    You're right there!

    So I'm not the only one!? I find myself shouting at my own parents because they believe all that crap!

    Parenting is the problem for sure but it's not the only issue by no stretch of the imagination. I certainly don't believe it's negligence to blame the government for bringing in rules that give children rights which have made them invincible. Telling them off can bring in the police against you for abusing them. The kids know their rights, that's the worst part. And the police and teachers have lost their powers because of rules brought in by the government, not by the parents.

    I'm not fully advocating voting for the BNP, or allowing them to run the country, but they do have quite a few things right.

    Are you really suggesting the BNP in power would turn us into Nazis? I can't really imagine that the BNP would go out and kill anyone that spoke against them. Or that we'll all end up in rallies crying out for the murder of jews, muslims and anyone else we "don't want in the country".

    The BNP need to change their policies and the stigma that follows them and become more realistic, then they will get more votes and not be considered racist.

    But fascist?? Need I mention the EU constitution that the goverment nearly signed us up to and that we're on the verge of signing right now? Without a referendum of course.
    #58
  19. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    On the subject of NHS this government has pumped record amounts of cash into it and it is still a shambles.It took me 2 years to get an NHS dentist because the government changed dentists contracts, so most of them went private as they felt under government rules they couldn't offer proper care.Oh and cut their salary at the same time.
    #59
  20. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    What? You really need to do your homework, there are only 2 thresholds for income tax, 25% up to £34k and 40% on anything over. So essentially anyone on a reasonable income pays exactly the same rate of tax as a billionaire. Are you actually suggesting they should pay less? So you'd be happy for everyone else to pay more to make up the gargantuan shortfall?

    Wouldn't be necessary if the kids were brought up correctly in the first place.

    No of course not, but if you do your homework you'll find that the Hitler regime started in exactly the same way i.e. when they came to power their policies made a lot of sense on the face of it, in fact they did a lot of good things initially, which then gave them the leverage to carry out what they ultimately planned to do.

    As for the private/NHS situation, who do you think carries out surgery in the private sector & where do you think they do it, using who's equipent?
    All major surgery is carried out by NHS surgeons in NHS operating theatres using NHS equipment. So all the private sector is doing is bumping NHS patients further down the list as all of the above are fixed resources.
    Come on people these are well documented facts, isn't anyone out there capable of seeing through tabloid propaganda?
    #60
  21. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes I know how many thresholds there are Andy thank you. What I am pointing out is that if you are on 40% you'll pay one amount per year. A billionaire would be on the same rate, but he'd pay a vast amount more tax!

    I'm suggesting that the current system is unfair on the rich. Again if I were rich I'd be pretty peeved that my money would be going on paying for people to be on the dole, families where the parents keep popping out children and never have to work AND recieve free housing and a car, paying for the hospitals to be full of drunks every friday night, the prisons (and streets) full of criminals who haven't had a decent education and resort to crime and many many other things. Of course I'd be willing to pay tax but I'd feel like I'm being bent over by every scummer in the country.

    I agree, but at least if the police and teachers had more tools they could get involved more and teach the parents indirectly how to bring up their child. Many children who're disruptive cannot be punished because the parents refuse to let it happen and don't enfoce their own discipline even though they know their child has been bad. The teachers need more powers to take action against those parents as it is simply negligence. That'll again teach the parents what they're supposed to do!


    Hitler wasn't voted into power by the German people, he took over. Once in power he'd send out his SA dudes to kill anyone who spoke out against the GWP! And this was widely known of course. AND he started to ask for the irradication of the jews and gays from day one! I don't think that would really happen in this country today. It wouldn't have happened in Britain THEN! Hitler wouldn't have got so far if it wasn't for the anger already within the Germans after the first world war. And do you really think the rest of europe and the USA would let us start killing people? That's of course after we vote the BNP into power and they manage to get the house of lords to allow them to change the entire political system from a democracy to a socialist fascist state and all this done whilst we all stand by and let it happen. That's just ludicrous.
    #61
  22. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    "A billionaire would be on the same rate, but he'd pay a vast amount more tax!"
    Well duuurrrr! but as proportion of his income it's the same rate. So you're saying I should continue to pay 40%, while billionaires tax is capped? So this would mean the millions of pounds in shortfall would come from where exactly?

    "Again if I were rich I'd be pretty peeved that my money would be going on paying for people to be on the dole" - but my tax contributions towards this are fine?
    This is a different issue and nothing to do with the stinking rich, it effects all of us, in fact it effects the average working family moreso as they earn far less, which is why there should be a third tier.

    "Hitler wasn't voted into power by the German people, he took over."
    Did he? I think you need to study you're modern history a little better. I know a lot of people have tried to rewrite parts of it, but I'm pretty sure that part we are all agreed on. He was voted in just like any other party in a landslide victory in 1930.
    Blimey what are they teaching you kids these days?
    "AND he started to ask for the irradication of the jews and gays from day one!"
    Er, no he didn't, he actually spent the first 5 years in power rebuilding the German economy and contrary to popular belief did a very good job (until he went a bit mad).

    Judging from your ignorance of world history and how income tax works I'd probably steer clear of this type of debate in future.
    #62
  23. Just Plain Old
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    Just Plain Old Active Member

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    Andymac

    I think there are plenty of reliable references on how Hitler came to power..... In a nutshell he 'used' the democratic process, then declared himself 'Furher'.

    However those who attempt to claim this is the BNP agenda couldn't be further from the truth, and need to do some 'proper' research rather than relying on the likes of 'searchlight' or 'UAF' 'theLIBLABCON' etc etc for their facts'...........!!

    As for your earlier comment on tax rates,,, I think you find they're currently 10%, 22% and 40% The BNP theory on abolishing income tax is an interesting one, and like a lot of their policies makes a great deal of sense.

    http://www.bnp.org.uk/candidates2005/manifesto/manf11.htm
    #63
  24. Shades
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    Shades Member

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    AndyMacs off again! :lmfao: Always entertaining!! He must have a head like a Mekon to accomodate all that knowledge... except its probably not green (I don't know, it might be?!)

    [​IMG]

    (Hi Andy! ;))
    #64
  25. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    "In a nutshell he 'used' the democratic process, then declared himself 'Furher'."
    Slightly oversimplified JPO, it happened over a 5 year period.

    "As for your earlier comment on tax rates,,, I think you find they're currently 10%, 22% and 40%"
    And this is relevant how exactly? We were talking about the top tier.

    Shades, constructive as always - get back to your pole dance watching!
    #65
  26. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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  27. Just Plain Old
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    Just Plain Old Active Member

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    I guess that's what a nutshell is...!!:icon_thumright:


    Well,,, there is the above mentioned sarcasm towards Staz, when your own knowledge of the 'basics' is somewhat flawed........ Also, for a variety of reasons, when the old punative rate of 97% (I think that's what it was) was removed, tax revenues actually increased. The fact that even nuLabour haven't tinkered with the higher rate probably proves it's about right.....!!
    #67
  28. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes I know durr but that was the point I was trying to make 2 posts ago but you misunderstood me.

    No I'm not suggesting anything. I'm simply saying it's not fair.

    I'm not saying a capping system should be implemented. However Britain is vastly rich, if it wasn't how on earth would we be able to continue haemorrhaging cash out to the EU and left right and centre? What would also be needed if a review on how the money is spent. As was mentioned before, Labour has piled a load of cash into the NHS and it hasn't done much good. Also if the other issues we're all mentioning were addressed money would be saved.

    To put it simply so there's no misunderstanding (I'm not being condescending, I just don't want to keep explaining myself in every detail) if the country didn't waste so much money, and allow people to become wasters, we'd all pay less tax!

    No their not fine. I'm not just sticking up for the super rich, we're all affected, I'm just using them as an example to illustrate a point.

    Or even more tiers yes.

    No he wasn't. He only became fuhrer in 1934!

    Hitler talked about getting rid of the Jews in Mein Kampf for crying out loud! And the GWP were anti-semitic before he even joined them. AND the general population considered them outsiders anyway.

    You're right, he built up the economy remarkably well.

    I know I'm no expert on world history, I didn't even study history for GCSE, but I do have the benefit of books on the subject and a girlfriend who lives here in Germany. She of course studied this subject at school and is currently studying Theology at uni and I won't actually tell you what she said about a couple of your comments Andy.

    But I certainly do not want to get into a pissing contest on the history of Nazi Germany. That's not what this thread is about. What my last post said, and I'll stand by, was that it is simply not possible for a party to take over power and turn us into a country who would do things like the Germans did.

    Although there's a lot of racism in the UK I doubt there are many people who would call for British Nationals of any race to be even sent away let alone killed. I'm certainly not one of them. And noone on here has suggested the same either. So to relate Britain under BNP power to Germany under the Nazis is somewhat ridiculous.
    #68
  29. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    #69
  30. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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  31. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    "Well actually it is as every body has a personal allowance of £5225 so you can earn up to £5225 and pay no tax after which you pay 10% tax on the next £2230."
    So to all those hardworking souls bringing in less than £7k a year then I stand corrected, I'm sure the £200 a year you pay to the IL is money well spent.
    #71
  32. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes I agree, the BNP are of course appealing to the masses and they're saying what everyone is thinking. And we're all thinking this because of how bad it has got, and that's because of the current government.

    You never know what their agenda is behind the scenes, and you wouldn't with any other party either. As I said right at the start I would want people to vote on them not because you'd want them in power (I'd rather have the current government but with a few changes) but firstly to make a statement to the party that did win and also to put a few nationalist players in the crowd who can stick up for us a bit more.

    The MP who stated that British citizens should get priority on housing (I can't remember her name off hand) was acused of talking like she was from the BNP. What she said was right it's crazy to almost acuse someone of being racist because they say someone who has lived and worked in the UK since they were born should be offered priority over someone from another country who has worked here for only a year and is entitled to bring their whole family with them.

    I understand peoples views on the BNP, especially people older than me that saw the effects from years ago. And I understand why you Andy are annoyed at this thread seriously talking about them being in power. But you have to admit that it's not working now, and many people are very unhappy.
    #72
  33. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    Well I'm pleased you stand corrected it takes a big man to admit he's wrong well done Andy Mac.But you always have to get your little sarcy comment in and for the record I don't pay £200 per year to HM customs and revenue.
    #73
  34. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the people for which this is an issue i.e earning £5k-£7k p.a. I'm sure they do exist!
    #74

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