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brakes on 1.8t sport..

Discussion in 'Handling' started by skanky, Sep 2, 2006.

  1. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 2, 2006]
    i'm none too technical when it comes to cars so apologies if what i say doesnt make sense.. :)

    on the subject of new brakes , i know i cant even begin to justify the cost of the GT kit, i could possibly stretch for the sport kit (is this what i'd be after: Brembo Sport Drilled Brake Kit AUDI A3 1.8i 20V Turbo 96-> (FD.074.021) for a 1999 A3 1.8t sport, correct?)

    but the brembo max discs look more affordable. anyone used these brembo max brake discs before?

    on another note, on my car, the brake pads (i assume its the pads?) in the caliper dont seem to be straight/flush, there seems to be a triangular shaped space where it seems like only one edge will make contact with the disc when the brakes are applied. are the pads worn? shouldnt they be rectangular in shape so the entire pad makes contact instead of just one edge?

    i'll see if i can get a picture of it, weather dependant and if i have the will to take the wheel off again.

    ..or would i be better off getting the brake setup from a S3? bigger brakes discs isnt it?

    any thoughts? advice?

    EDIT: how much should the drilled sport kit cost? the "official" uk brembo dealer website has them at £360 but another site has the same kit for £260, what gives?!
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  3. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Sep 4, 2006]
    i'm about to fit the 312mm S3/TT225 discs to my A3 1.8T Sport.

    To do this you'll need the discs (obviously) and caliper carriers.

    As new parts, a pair of discs cost about £104 and a pair of caliper carriers are at least £135 new (some places they are more!). The carriers can be bought from a scrappie; i've read people have paid around £40.

    The calipers and pads from your existing setup can be used so you'll save some cash there.

    I've gone for brand new calipers, pads, carriers, hoses and discs. As my calipers and hoses are 85k old, i figured the piston seals and hoses will need replacing sooner rather than later so i might as well change them anyway; i got all this lot brand new for a ridiculously cheap price - basically getting the calipers, pads and hoses for free!

    I've coincided the upgrade with my scheduled brake fluid change to save a bit more cash.
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  4. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 4, 2006]
    what would be the better route to take, fitting the bigger S3 brakes or the brembo sports kit?

    EDIT: any links (other than ebay) to where i could get the bits i need in the event that a scrappy dont have the bits..
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  5. Tallpaul
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    [Sep 4, 2006]
    Is the brembo sports kit just pads and discs to fit the OE 288mm setup?

    If so, then 312mm discs are gonna provide more stopping power than 288mm ones, grooved and drilled or not (drilled discs aren't a good idea anyway).

    Not sure what sort of power you are trying to reign in?

    The real weak point with either setup will ultimately be the calipers as either way you are using a single pot floating system that is very susceptible to heat.

    I have no experience of the Brembo kit you are talking about, but i wouldn't fit drilled discs.

    What's 'best' is very much down to personnal choice and what exactly you expect from them. Personnaly i've had a couple of hairy moments when i simply haven't been able to reduce my speed as quickly as i would have liked to; but this is probably only 50% due to the brakes because my 85k old suspension behaves so erraticaly under heavy braking that the braking itself is dangerous and unsettles the car. One memorably occasion saw the car nose dive so badly as to almost completely lose road contact from the nearside rear tyre and consequantly nearly sent me snaking across the central reservation. Hence why the brakes are being fitted as well as eibach shocks and H & R springs.
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  6. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 4, 2006]
    i think the brembo kit is drilled 288mm discs, im running standard 150bhp power atm, but potentially looking to revo in the near future, hence asking about brakes.

    how much difference is there in stopping power of the 312mm brakes over the standard 288mm setup on a non-revo'd car?
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  7. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Sep 4, 2006]
    from everything i've read it's an improvement...

    People have used phrases ranging from 'awesome' to 'improvement'. I won't personnaly know until i've had it done.

    Like i say, i expect it to make a differance (although new pads, discs, calipers, hoses and fluid will make a difference themselves) as it's simple physics that bigger discs = more stopping power; but at the same time more stopping power will create even more nose dive under braking so uprated suspension will be a must too.

    TBH, if i wasn't doing both at the same time i would change the suspension first as the massive improvement in all round stability will make the OE brakes alot more effective.
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  8. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 4, 2006]
    what would you suggest suspension-wise to reduce nose diving under heavy breaking, as well as possibly lowering the car ever so slightly as i've put s3 avus alloys on my 1.8t sport.
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  9. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Sep 4, 2006]
    :)
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  10. skanky
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  11. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    is £255 (incl delivery) a good price for the following:
    pair of OE brake discs, pair of OE calipers, pair of OE caliper carriers, two pairs of OE brake pads (with wear indicators)
    ..taken from an audi TT with delivery mileage on them? (so practically brand new)
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  12. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    i thought so, because they are from the same guy i got mine from ;)

    If you think your pads/calipers/hoses are in ok condition then this kit is overkill as you can get the discs from vwspares.co.uk and the carriers can be obtained from any VAG with 312mm brakes eg S3, TT225, Leon Cupra, Some later Golf GTI's etc etc.
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  13. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    hehe!

    im not sure how good the pads are, especially on the right-front, it doesnt look like the pads make proper contact with the disc, looking at the caliper, it looks something like this:
    Code:
    [b]
    _____
    |   /     |
    |  /      |
    | /       |
    |/        |[/b]
    
     ^        ^
     |        |
    pad     disc
    
    shouldnt it make contact with the entire surface instead of just one edge, like so?
    Code:
    [b]
    _____
    |   |     |
    |   |     |
    |   |     |
    |   |     |
    |   |     |[/b]
    -----
     ^        ^
     |        |
    pad      disc
    
    if i'm getting bigger discs, wouldnt it be advisable to get better calipers to go with? i assume the calipers from the TT/S3 are better than the A3 equivelent?
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  14. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    Err, the pad contact should be even across the vertical; so no, i'd say there is something odd about that. Mine certainly aren't worn like that anyway!

    As for the Calipers, they are exactly the same. The 288mm and 312mm brake setups use the same part# caliper, simply that for the bigger discs you need carriers that move the caliper 1/2" further out.
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  15. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    my front-right brake pad looks like the first pic, not the second one so likely to need new pads (cant remember off the top of my head how badly worn the discs are)

    how much are the OE calipers when brought seperately, might see if i can get the price of the calipers knocked off seeing as how they use the same part..

    or see if i can source a new set of carriers and pads only, hmm!
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  16. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    He won't sell you the bits seperately, they come as kits and ship direct from Germany; asked this before and he says he won't be able to shift calipers on their own.

    I had trouble tracking down a price for the calipers on their own, i think they are about £75 each IIRC.
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  17. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    given that i'll need new discs and by the sounds of it, new pads and the carriers, i dont think i'd be able to save much from £255 if i got those seperately, or could i?

    i've seen a pair of golf 312mm caliper carriers on fleabay, £160 though.
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  18. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    So that'd be:

    Pair of Carriers £160
    Pair of 312mm Discs £104
    Full Set of Pads £50
    Postage (discs and carriers are fecking heavy) = £20

    Total = £334
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  19. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    i think its starting to look like a really good deal.

    you said they're shipped direct from germany, did you get stung by customs at all?
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  20. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    No, it's EU so shouldn't be any import duty to pay?

    Nothing for me to worry about anyway. Parts came direct from Germany then delivered by Parcel Force. The shipping label said total delivery cost was £40! So in actual fact this guy is only getting £215 for the parts which shows just how cheap he is getting them :)
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  21. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    i got something from guernsey last week, got hit for an extra £11 payable to customs :/

    is fitting the new kit difficult or a case of simply a straight swap of old kit out for new kit? (im not the most technical person when it comes to cars) or best left to a mechanic or something?
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  22. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    The worst part is draining the fluid then re-filling and bleeding the new calipers.

    I find this a right PITA on ABS cars so am paying my local spanner-man to do it.
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  23. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    think i'll leave it to a mechanic to put the new kit in.
    any clearance problems of any sort with the new setup on a a3 t sport with 17" s3 avus alloys?
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  24. Tallpaul
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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    None at all. The 312mm setup will even fit under the 16" Competition rims.
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  25. skanky
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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    i wonder if its worth buying the kit now (or a bit closer to the date) then waiting till my next annual service (jan07) which unless i can find a decent independant in SE/SE London area, will be fontain in bucks and ask them to install the new brakes, at the same time as a cambelt change, im on 68k atm.

    whats the standard brake fluid change schedule/how would i find out when my next one is?
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  26. Tallpaul
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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    ouch, that'd be one expensive service!

    Brake fluid change is every 2years/20k.
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  27. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    yeah not exactly looking forward to that, although if i stagger it as in do the brakes now and cambelt in janurary, it wont seem so bad.. :)
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  28. skanky
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    [Sep 5, 2006]
    hmm, my brake fluid was last changed at 42k, now on 68k. i'll have to call audi tomorrow and see if it had been done but not stamped :/

    methinks i should get this done sooner rather than later!

    EDIT: i now wonder if it had been done privately but not stamped, hmm doh! i dont get any brake related errors come up on my DIS though..

    EDIT2: when getting the new brake kit installed, would i need to have all the brake fluid drained/changed like whats supposed to be done every 24 months or can i just "top up" the fluid and get it changed properly when my service is due and stamped by a vag specialist/stealer??
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  29. Tallpaul
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    [Sep 6, 2006]
    Hmmm, hydraulic fluid ain't like engine oil... Unless you know exactly what grade (and ideally what product) of fluid was used, i'd say it'd be wiser to change the whole lot.

    Not 100% on that though, worth asking an actual mechanic that question :shrug:
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  30. Corey
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    Corey Seeing the world differently.

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    [Sep 6, 2006]
    Brake fluid is a vital (if often overlooked aspect) component to the correct function of your braking system, the fluid is hydrascopic (it absorbs moisture), so the longer that it is left the more moisture it absorbs and the less effiecient your braking system is, also moisture within the system corrodes your master and slave cylinders also.
    As a minimum you should change your fluid once every 2 years but the more aggressive you drive the more frequent you should change.
    Because I like good brakes I change mine every year or sooner if we have done track days.
    Then there is the whole topic of what brake fluid but that is another story.
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  31. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 6, 2006]
    so what brake fluid will i need? i think the manual suggests DOT4 or something another? cant remember off the top of my head.
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  32. Corey
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    Corey Seeing the world differently.

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    [Sep 6, 2006]
    I like to use Motul RF600 this is a DOT4 but it's wet and dry boiling points exceed most DOT5.1 fluids.
    For years I had used DOT5.1 as I thought it couldn't be bettered.

    Be careful though with whatever fluid you chose as while they may all say DOT4, 5.1 etc they are not all the same, a bit like engine oil.
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  33. skanky
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    [Sep 6, 2006]
    what specs should i be looking for when it comes to brake fluid?
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  34. rayman
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    rayman 130 TDI SPORT

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    [Sep 6, 2006]
    you wont need to drain all the fluid, on previous conversions i have done on vw,s i get a pair of vice grips and just clamp them on the brake hose before i undo it. dont crimp it too tight just enough to stop the fluid coming out then once the new calipers are on just bleed them through, ive done it 14 times with no problems. oh and im gettin a set of those oem setups of the same guy youve found, he sells them for 240 on ebay with 40 delivery or for 260 outside ebay. im only doing it this way so i can paint the calipers and carriers properly. also ive put together a 312mm vented rear disc conversion from a R32 golf, direct replacement if you get the caliper carriers, calipers, discs and disc covers for behind the discs. cost me £200 off a mate, just want it to look good when i get some 18"s. i hate tiny brakes under big wheels, will post some pics when i get it all on.
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  35. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 6, 2006]
    this guy's doing it at 255 including delivery, found him through a vw beetle forum so had to sign up for the forum just for the brakes :)
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  36. Tallpaul
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    [Sep 7, 2006]
    Completely filling the pistons in both calipers would use a relatively large volume of fluid. Certainly more than i would wish to leave unreplaced in the reservoir.

    As i stated, i wouldn't 'top up' brake fluid - just completely change it when required.
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  37. rayman
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    rayman 130 TDI SPORT

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    [Sep 7, 2006]
    i only do it this way as its more messing bleeding the rears when its all changed.
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  38. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 7, 2006]
    i spoke to a bloke who said he'd fit the new brakes for me, £30 :D

    he also said that if i reused the existing caliper, they he wouldnt need to cut into the brake line, or something thereabouts.
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  39. rayman
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    rayman 130 TDI SPORT

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    [Sep 10, 2006]
    thats right but then your left with a set of calipers, id paint the set u buy properly then change them over as you,ll have new seals in the calipers youve bought.
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  40. skanky
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    skanky Member

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    [Sep 10, 2006]
    what sort of paint do i use? and what colour should i go for, jalpac signal red? :) or maybe hammerite black for a stealth look, on a black car..
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  41. skanky
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    [Sep 17, 2006]
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