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Brake upgrade options.

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by ScottD3, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Jan 2, 2014]
    I've got my self some Alloy B6 uprights recently with the idea of fitting new bearings, ABS sensors and upgrading the brakes.

    As I understand, the holes for the callipers/carrier are further apart which gives a wider selection of larger brakes compared to the B5 uprights.

    If this is the case what are the options?
    What has people fitted and what do they recommend?
    Initial buy up price and the cost replacement.
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  3. Mr K
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    Mr K Member

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    [Jan 2, 2014]
    **Vulture mode** IIRC you have 312mm fronts dont you? if so I'd be interested in the carriers when they come off...
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  4. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    B6 S4 fronts i wouldnt go any bigger with it being FWD and diesel lol !!
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  5. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Jan 2, 2014]
    #4
  6. Tom_B
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    Tom_B Member

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    [Jan 2, 2014]
    Have you put a 2.7T in Audrey without telling us Scott?
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  7. Broonie
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    Broonie Member

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    [Jan 2, 2014]
    With the b6 uprights, are the front uprights the same across the range or are there differences? Obviously quattros have different rears,

    I only ask as I plan on doing this upgrade this month and the local scrappy has 5 or 6 b6's in just now and their prices are good usually, also need the lower arms from a b6 too?
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  8. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 2, 2014]
    B6 s4'S Are great vfm, cheap to maintain too
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  9. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Jan 2, 2014]
    Haha.
    They are earmarked at the moment mate but if they don't go you'll get first shout.

    Oi, leave the diesel alone.
    Don't forget its a auto, so I use my brakes more than a normal diesel.

    That's my justification any way.

    I'm nicking the V10 from my Dad.

    That what you've just fitted or removed?
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  10. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Jan 2, 2014]
    The front alloy uprights are the same iirc and yes you'll need lower arms.
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  11. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 2, 2014]
    Fitted, discs and pads around a ton to the door. I bought the whole setup cheaper than new discs for the rs4 setrup
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  12. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Jan 3, 2014]
    That seems the set up to go then.
    unless something to good comes up.

    Thanks.

    I'll keep an eye out when I'm ready.
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  13. Lafarge
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    Lafarge New Member

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    [Jan 6, 2014]
    Sorry to hijack...will B6 S4's bolt straight onto a B7 TDiQ?
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  14. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Jan 6, 2014]
    Yes they will i think they have the same style ATE caliper only with 320mm discs also the caliper maybe the same and just have shorter carriers but you will have to check part numbers etc
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  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 6, 2014]
    Lafarge: yes.

    Scott: I wouldnt even bother with B6 S4's. Putting them on the front of your car with the tiny stock rears will just upset the bias and mess things up.

    They're also very expensive, and you just dont need them.

    The 320mm version, fitted to allroads and later B7's is much more affordable, and a more sensible fit to your car. Afterall, they sold S4's with 320 fronts and 245mm rears.
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  16. jbh
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    jbh TDi lover

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    [Jan 6, 2014]
    what brake upgrades can be done on the TDi quattro out of interest?
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  17. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Jan 6, 2014]
    I did not think about the bias.
    How much does it or would it mess it up?

    Never really hear any one moaning about it.

    I got to talk to a friend of a friend about the rear brakes and see if we can do what was mentioned in another thread.
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  18. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 6, 2014]
    folk dont moan about it because folk dont really understand the implications.

    Imagine your brakes are perfectly balanced, and you brake hard, at the point of maximum decelleration before the wheels lock.

    The cars weight gets transferred forward, which means you can brake harder on the front wheels than the rear. All the calipers are fed with the same hydraulic pressure, so the rear ones need to apply less force for that given pressure, hence they have smaller pistons and , so the front calipers are larger (and the disks too) to compensate.

    However the limiting factor is infact the tyres grip on the road surface. If you brake harder in the above scenario in your perfectly balanced car, you lock the wheels, ABS engages, everything goes to ****. If everythings perfectly balanced, all four wheels are applying their maximum decelleration to the road.

    So folk fit larger brakes. say you go from the 288's to 345mm S4 fronts, and lets imagine those brakes are 30% stronger for a given hydraulic pressure. So the first impression is the brakes are "better" because you dont need to press the pedal as hard (or conversely, stop better for the same pedal effort).

    However theres a caveat. To get to the same point as above, where the front wheels are about to lock, you dont have to press the pedal as hard, because the brakes are more powerful, but the tyres are the same. This seems like a good idea. However what you then end up with is the front wheels about to lock, and the rear wheels only putting about 70% of their maximum available braking, because the line pressure is lower.

    Thus the total force applied to the road surface drops in maximum effort stopping situations.

    All cars are biased to the front from the factory, because its safer, so you've got a bit of leeway, but fitting 345mm fronts and leaving the stock rears is almost certainly going to reduce your maximum stopping effort.
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  19. creechy
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    creechy New Member

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    [Jan 6, 2014]
    Ive gone with the 320mm allroad calipers for my b6 uprights. Now xmas is out the way im looking to collect together new front bearings, discs and lower arms to fit before mot time.
    Ive also managed to obtain a pair of the rear hubs mentioned in another tread and was lucky enough to get a complete FL S4 rear brake setup off another forum member, so when time and weather are on my side i,ll be seeing if i can make i all fit..
    #18
  20. Tom_B
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    Tom_B Member

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    [Jan 6, 2014]
    I have run out of 'likes' Kev, otherwise I would have 'liked' your post. A really clearly and well explained bit of applied phyics to the car world.
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  21. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 6, 2014]
    Up to 300 Bhp, the 320mm allroad/2.0tfsi brake setup is more than adeqvate, over that they struggling. On a stock b5 running 200 Bhp max, the 312mm are more than enough...
    #20

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