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Brake discs & strange noise

Discussion in 'RS3 Forum' started by Veneeringman, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 24, 2014]
    Well here we are back in the RS3 Brake clinic

    Over the space of a few days these lines have appeared in the front discs on both sides, i also have a noise that sounds like a dull thudding sometimes when braking (but cannot be felt through the brake pedal)

    Now i've had the same noise before i had the 47i6 update at 9500 miles car has done roughly the same miles again and this noise has returned:readit::banghead:

    I also have the return of squeal, low speed squeal.

    The creaky bucket seat fix by Manchester Audi, well lets just say its expired for now.

    Car is going into Stafford Audi in 2 weeks for investigation.

    cid_image004.jpg cid_image002.jpg :keule:
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  3. KKM
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    KKM Member

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    [Apr 24, 2014]
    I have the exact same marks on my updated 47i6 brakes.

    I am due to get new brake pads fitted by Aberdeen Audi next week. Not sure if this will sort this or not.

    Mine are being replaced as part of an ongoing case, slight vibration via the steering wheel and also the dreaded brake squeal returning.

    Oh the joys.
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  4. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 24, 2014]
    How INTERSTING is this! :uhm:

    FOUR cars now showing something 'similar'.

    And the photographs that kilojade posted in the thread "Another brake problem" post #42 show similar brake surface scoring in a very similar radius/position.

    And kilojade's were pre-47i6, while Sean's are post-47i6.

    Aberdeen Audi NEED to be made aware of the others KKM, as Stafford Audi most certainly will...
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  5. KKM
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    KKM Member

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    [Apr 24, 2014]
    They had the car for 3 days, to take off all wheels, check all the wheels were balanced correctly and photograph all faces of the brakes discs, pads and calipers.

    Guess what, still not any further forward. Vibration still there, brakes still squealing.

    It goes in next week (5 weeks after this was first reported) for the 'new' brake pads.

    I fear this will just be a quick fix, and in time, I will be back up there soon reporting the same issues.

    Will definitely report the others having the same scoring. Surely we cant all be 'wrong'....
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  6. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 24, 2014]
    You'll NOT be the first to have a SECOND set of 47i6 upgrade discs and pads KKM, maybe caliper too, but I doubt that.

    This issue needs to be logged and reported!

    Audi UK need to informed directly!

    I'm not convinced Audi dealers talk to each other directly - and I know for a fact that Stafford Audi were not aware of a relatively current and similar issue at Preston Audi.

    And Brembo are still offering their own non-squeal pad, and that pad is way different to original and/or 47i6 item: Brembo Sport Front Pad Set [07.B314.51] | RS3 Brakes | APS

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Sean and I are already looking at an alternative front brake disc but, with these cars still in warranty, Audi needs to be encouraged to sorting the issue - though as we all know the braking arrangement on this car is no longer current to Audi, the caliper and pads remain the same 'fit' as others i.e., EVO. I believe the disc is bespoke, RS3 only.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
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  7. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 24, 2014]
    Hey monkeyboy_Marcus :hi:; as you might (?) be running the 47i6 upgrade brake discs and calipers with the alter***ive Brembo brake pads, with which I understand you're very happy (other than the recently reported noise - that may be similar?) could you please post a photograph of your brake discs and an indication of mileage use.
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  8. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 24, 2014]
    The Plot thickens so to speak !!

    Well it seems I'm not on my own then ??
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  9. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 24, 2014]

    KKM, have you any photo's of your front discs ? Any chance of posting them if you have please.

    The same goes for anybody else who may have a similar issue, I think the more info we have the better chance Audi have in fixing this new problem.

    It's still a bloody great car in my opinion even with these problems !!!!
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  10. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 24, 2014]
    Decided to have a look at the pads and I must say I'm shocked by what I saw !!

    image.jpg

    image.jpg
    #9
  11. monkeyboy_marcus
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    monkeyboy_marcus Active Member

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    [Apr 25, 2014]
    Hi John, will do this tmw no problem. To confirm, running 47i6 upgrade with Brembo sport pads. Just recently experienced recurrent brake "hiss" noise rather than squeal - same characteristic environmental conditions as before.
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  12. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 25, 2014]
    Back of the discs

    image.jpg image.jpg

    Passenger side pads

    image.jpg image.jpg


    For me the pads do not look like the last time I had 'em out, they seem to have deteriorated quite a lot !!!
    #11
  13. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 25, 2014]
    Hi Sean :hi:

    1) the friction material thickness of these Brembo RS3 alternative pads is 10mm

    2) see the amount of brass embedded...

    3) and the edge break-up on a new and unused pad...

    4) and the chamfers and centre groove of course - not included in the official Audi items.

    Attached Files:

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  14. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 25, 2014]
    Mine look like they've other things embedded in 'em, black spots on at least 3 off the pads and hard enough to mark the discs
    #13
  15. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 25, 2014]

    I've seen the black lumps too :sadlike:; who knows what's in the mix; also the 'holes' and the break-up of the pad surface.

    Sometimes it's best NOT to look... :ninja:
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  16. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 25, 2014]

    True that's my trouble too nosey. :faint:
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  17. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 25, 2014]
    At least after looking at them, Audi can't say there isn't anything wrong with them.
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  18. jmcnamee98
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    jmcnamee98 New Member

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    [Apr 25, 2014]
    Are these spots heat spots?

    These are pictures of my original pads pre the first of 2 47i6 updates. I still have some occasional squeal and I still have a slight vibration through the the steering wheel at 80 mph from my original alloys on Contis and a new set of alloys 8.5J 255 fronts on Contis

    10750,a.jpg 10750,b.jpg
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  19. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 25, 2014]
    I have no idea what mine are they do not look right

    Yours jmcnamee98 look in good order apart from the brass/copper ? dots

    When I first took mine off I had what looked like brass pins but only 2 at the top and 2 at the bottom of the friction material.

    When I spoke to john about it he mentioned the pads could well have copper/brass in them

    More worrying in my case is what's causing the disc scoring and the intermittent weird thudding noise on braking.
    #18
  20. jmcnamee98
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    jmcnamee98 New Member

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    [Apr 25, 2014]
    My pads pictured above certainly were not in good order and the Audi dealership in question kept my car for 5 days at the time (until they could replace them) also refused to hand it back on those pads saying they did not know what the spots were and they should not be there. I have an idea PM me if you want more details it was before any brake cooling recalls / modifications.

    Disc scoring is alarming there seems to be a few unresolved issues with what is / should otherwise be an excellent machine do we keep hassling Audi or fix them ourselves? For me that seems like it will be sell up (not really an option) third set of non OEM alloys and MPSS tyres new and non OEM brake setup again not something owners should be paying for on vehicles in warranty.
    #19
  21. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 25, 2014]
    I'll be happy if they can sort mine out when it goes in.
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  22. jmcnamee98
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    jmcnamee98 New Member

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    [Apr 25, 2014]
    If it's more of the same parts or fixes how long till your next brake issue?

    Brakes issues on any car even if it's just noise or aesthetics assuming the disc scoring isn't causing other issues aren't funny.
    #21
  23. KKM
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    [Apr 30, 2014]
    I will take a few pics tonight and post them up.

    Ive been asked to drop my car off (again) at Aberdeen Audi, so they can replace the brake pads (instruction from Technical Im told).

    My fear is, that even after the 'new' (2nd set) are installed, I will still have the heavily scored discs and the intermittent wobble / vibrations at 80mph and under some braking felt via the steering wheel.

    I wait with baited breath.....
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  24. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 30, 2014]
    NOT GOOD, and NOT FUNNY :crying:

    BUT guys, we do NEED to ENSURE that: 1) Audi UK are informed, and 2) WE keep a register of FRONT BRAKE issues with mileage recorded, 'cos one thing is sure, I'm more than prepared to shovel sh*t at Audi UK (Leeds and/or Milton Keynes) if this remains an on-going problem... :uhm:

    My car is one of the first registered and is coming up to its 3-year warranty expiration in September 2014: ok, so I have an extended warranty, but noises need to be made to Audi UK before either mine or yours arrives at that juncture. An mine's here for the long term, not that that matters, as if push came to shove I'd be fitting alternative front brakes anyway: stopping is far more important to me than complaining to Audi UK, but there will come that time/moment when a meeting with a responsible Audi person is afforded...

    Unfortunately Mr. Sander transferred to the other side of the pond...

    Happy to help/assist with listing, whatever...
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  25. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 30, 2014]
    Maybe a thread with who's got squeal / weird noise / scored marked discs, post 47i6 update is needed.
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  26. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 30, 2014]
    It's also not funny when these cars spend more time at the dealerships, when we could be enjoying driving them.....:racer::kissmyrings:
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  27. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [May 8, 2014]
    Well Stafford Audi rang today,

    The car has had brand new Disc's and pads, can't wait to get it back on Saturday morning.

    as always great Service and help from Stafford Audi !! Only dropped it off Tuesday ! Cannot fault these guys at all.
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  28. DAYTONA500
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    DAYTONA500 Well-Known Member

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    [May 8, 2014]
    Good result Sean ,Audi have obviously got a an ongoing problem with these RS3's brakes and i wonder if its the same part numbers on the new set up or maybe they've uprated the parts.:thumbsup:
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  29. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [May 8, 2014]
    Hi Ben

    I've already asked about part numbers and they are the same as before.

    they did ask if I wanted them to perform the bedding in procedure I declined saying I'd sort it.
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
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  30. DAYTONA500
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    DAYTONA500 Well-Known Member

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    [May 8, 2014]
    At least its been sorted under warranty and hassle free ,Stafford Audi is a top dealership.:applaus:
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  31. KKM
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    KKM Member

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    [May 9, 2014]
    So, got my car back today, with the new brake pads fitted. (replacement of the upgraded ones)......

    Will report back soon if the squeal / noise has gone or not.

    However, after telling the 'service advisor' NOT to wash my car and they even wrote this on the back of my keys, they went ahead and cleaned it inside and out.

    To say I am hacked off, is an understatement.
    #30
  32. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [May 9, 2014]
    Pulled my 47i6 brake pads after 1750-miles, if only to compare mine with those of others and yes, you've guessed right, my pads are braking up around the edges and have chunks out of the pad centres.

    After much investigation I got myself a set of EBC Red Stuff (ceramic) pads.

    OK, EBC do not list/manufacture an EBC Red Stuff pad for the RS3 or TTRS, so...

    EBC do, however, manufacture Red Stuff brake pads for 'other' cars using the same Brembo caliper (that I've listed previously on the audi-sport.net RS3 Forum), albeit with an inappropriate wear sensor, but then I am and always have been an engineer who'll modify 'similar' products to suit my own application.

    Anyway, modified and fitted and out of the garage for an initial bedding-in and evaluation.

    What bedding-in? Two light-applications in the first 100-yards just to feel the pedal travel and I was already impressed. Seven-miles later and after 5 or 6-light applications of the brake pedal to slow from 70 to 30-mph and I was absolutely gob smacked!

    A set of EBC Red Stuff for the rear brakes are now on order...

    These pads need 250-miles to fully bed-in, and I'm already looking forward to that (hopefully with the Michelins fitted, still waiting...)

    So think on you guys, there are alternative brake pads for these cars that for me are doing a better job.

    Attached Files:

    #31
  33. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [May 9, 2014]
    After we spoke john I ordered a set straight away, not going to wait for the new discs to get ruined by the Brembo pads again.
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  34. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [May 9, 2014]
    You can try BLUEY for yourself tomorrow Sean, be prepared to be amazed... :idea:

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 10, 2014
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  35. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 9, 2014]
    Nice find john :thumbsup:
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  36. monkeyboy_marcus
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    monkeyboy_marcus Active Member

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    [May 10, 2014]
    Here you go John:

    IMG_2024.jpg IMG_2026.jpg IMG_2023.jpg IMG_2022.jpg

    I reckon I've done about 10k miles on these, approx. Brembo sport pads are now definitely ramping up the "hiss" under dry conditions...

    By the way, did you hear the one about Coulsdon Audi fitting my summer rubber Mich PSS 235 both to the RHS front/rear and original Conti 225 both to the LHS front/rear? Well, this was rectified last week by them refitting 225 front and 235 rear… Eejits.
    #35
  37. monkeyboy_marcus
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    monkeyboy_marcus Active Member

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    [May 10, 2014]
    I feel for you! I've a cheque in the post from Coulsdon Audi after they "cleaned" my car. The cheque is to repair the damage caused to the trims.
    #36
  38. monkeyboy_marcus
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    monkeyboy_marcus Active Member

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    [May 10, 2014]
    Very interesting John but what mods did you have to do - not an engineer, as you know!
    #37
  39. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [May 10, 2014]
    Hi Marcus :hi: The ONLY modification I made was the joining of two wires to the brake pad sensors otherwise it's a slide 'em out and slide 'em in process with a little CeraTek for lubrication.

    OK, I cleaned up some since my 47i6 upgrade is close to 2000-miles use, and I still like getting my hands dirty.

    Sean is coming over today with his 2nd 47i6 upgrade(done by Stafford Audi) which, by the time he gets to me will have done the same bedding in as these Red Stuff pads, so we'll evaluate both and that's as close to a back-to-back as I'm going to get for now.

    As for any bedding-in process: by the time you've driven from home to the office Marcus your car, fitted with these brake pads, will feel 200% better than those you have currently.

    I'll post photographs later...
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  40. Dave Hedgehog
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    Dave Hedgehog Member

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    [May 10, 2014]
    i am very interested to hear how this works out, i have had no problems with my second set of upgraded pads but they are wearing out like a mofo, 60% gone after 6k miles ...

    will the red stuffs last longer? will they kill the discs quicker?
    #39
  41. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [May 10, 2014]
    I thought my pre-47i6 brakes had much more 'bite' that the 47i6 ones.

    I've had brake squeal with both pre and post 47i6 brakes @ 1250-miles or so and have sorted both though with a different application.

    My big negative with the 47i6 pads was the occasional lack of bite and the amount of black 'spot' smuts/deposits I was getting.

    Having been closely involved with Veneeringman's brake issues, having seen his brake pad friction surfaces, and in particular those same deposits on the inside of rims, I 'm back to the Brembo brake pad as the primary cause of all of the problems we're having with this car and so felt it time to try something else.

    Now I've been involved with automotive brakes both in an amateur and professional role and do have hands-on experience at MIRA, so I started to search for alternative brake pads, and that's where I'm at now.

    But your right, "will the red stuffs last longer? will they kill the discs quicker?" I don't know, but I intend to find out.

    I'll be taking BLUEY to Stafford Audi early next week and let their Master Tech (who's just done Veneeringman's car) to let him experience this set-up - and I'm 100% sure that he'll be as gob smacked as I am before he gets off the Stafford Audi Industrial Estate. By that stage they'll have done 35-miles maximum, and I'm determined, knowing the miles needed to get a good feel into the Audi Brembo brake pads, that he tries them as early in the bedding-in process as possible (Sean will do the same later this morning as we'll do a back-to-back with both cars).

    Following my Stafford Audi visit I'll be fitting EBC Red Stuff to the rears also.

    Not only is the 'bite' better, but so is the pedal feel and travel with zero 'sponge' in pedal feel, just 'bite', 'bite', bite.

    Oh, and EBC Red Stuff brake pads are Type Approved in their own right: 90R-01156/1530, and have been tested/evaluated/independently witnessed at MIRA where they found them to "reduce a car stopping distance by almost 50-ft from 100mph".

    I've done more than a little research on these EBC Red Stuff brake pads, as I would: and I have used EBC products before on my Lotus Elan, Audi A2, and S3), so I'm confident that FOR ME out there on our heavily congested public roads, that these brake pads have provided a cost effective resolution to ALL of the Audi RS3 front brake doubts I had previously.
    #40

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