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Bluefin

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by timjhoward, Jul 19, 2007.

  1. timjhoward
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    timjhoward Audi Newbie

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    [Jul 19, 2007]
    Has anyone got much experience of these, in particular reference to the A4 2.0TDi 140?

    To me looks like the perfect option, much better performace gains than I would experience with a removable tuning box such as Tunit (which I have on my current vehicle). Yet it is supposedly invisible to the dealership?

    Can anyone confirm, if you upload the new code and then revert back to the old code to take the car in for service etc. is it really undetectable? I wondered whether the ECU program might have a timestamp or something.

    My new A4 (coming December) will be a company/lease car and as such I can't risk invalidating the warranty, however I know I won't find 140bhp enough and have just started researching my options.

    Thanks in advance
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  3. Tobez
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    Tobez Member

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    [Jul 20, 2007]
    Hi Tim

    I havnt done this to mine personally i had mine remapped manually but i did bluefin my m8s 2.0 T.

    Easy as pie down your ECU email it to superchips , they sms ya mobile when its ready , reup it to ya car, and go for it

    Mine was great when i remapped it i had about 180 185 from it, and unfortunately for me its been overwritten now by audi due to me having Airbag faults , and i have to admit the car feel Flat as a Fart now, But the tourqe was awsome, and i dont know if you notice it but when i got my A4 i noticed i 1st gear its kinda flat when taking off and i always dip my clutch to get the turbo to kick in, but i was a type -r driver before so i was used to a rapid responce, But after the remap that flat spot goes.

    Im now looking at the RICA units due to Bluefin being 600 quid . think RICA is 500.


    Anyways any questions give me a holla
    #2
  4. Tobez
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    Tobez Member

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    [Jul 20, 2007]
    To settle ya lease car question sorry missed that.

    No they dont see it and no its not as far as i know tracable. Mines a lease car and AUDI did mine and never said nothing.

    To b honest at some Audi garages they even allow remps to be done.


    When they get your ECU down onto the Bluefin it has a code

    when they remap it that code stays the same

    Its abit like MAc Address spoofing in IT they just clone what your car knows and tweak the limits
    #3
  5. mitch78
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    mitch78 Active Member

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    [Jul 21, 2007]
    :thumbsup:
    #4
  6. timjhoward
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    timjhoward Audi Newbie

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    [Jul 21, 2007]
    Thanks all, that is really helpful.

    I hadn't even considered the possibility that the dealer might flash the ECU and overwrite a remap, think this sells the bluefin to me more than ever now then. My A4 won't arrive till the middle of December due to my current lease but I think I will order one at that time or shortly afterwards. I guess it wouldn't hurt to put a thousand miles on it before I go chipping it - I guess that will only take a few days though!

    I like the MAC address analogy, so this is what stops you from uploading the code to all of your mates cars as well then. Sounds like the automated system for supplying your code works well enough though, in fact it's really clever.

    Shame about the ECU Flash Count, but nothing in this world is perfect, well except for the RS4/R8 perhaps!? I would gladly take that gamble though, particularly if I can get a Superchips warranty to run alongside. My mate has VAG.COM can this reset the ECU flash count? I am guessing not?

    This is only making the wait more painful though! Will be nice when I can actually post on here as an Audi owner!

    Cheers
    #5
  7. BrianM
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    BrianM BrianM

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    [Jul 22, 2007]
    Go for the Bluefin, did it on my A3 140 DSG and the difference is stunning, smoother more torgue and slightly better economy and its quicker than a 170 by far. Transformed the car from a quick oil burner to a very rapid motor, shame about the tyre wear tho!
    #6
  8. mjsewell
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    mjsewell Member

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    [Jul 22, 2007]
    The Bluefin system is okay but others tend to offer a bit more performance.

    If your biggest concern is the ECU flash counter then you might want to consider using a GIAC based remap, as their Flashloader device doesn't affect this counter. It works in a similar way to Bluefin with a handheld device that you can use to switch back and forth between different maps (like the Revo SPS system).

    Star Performance are the people to talk to for this. Based in Scotland but by all accounts well worth a visit based on their reputation.

    If the dealer flashes the ECU with new code (which they are doing on some petrol and diesel 2006 & 2007 A4's at the moment) then you'll have to re-download your new OEM ECU settings and send it off to Superchips (or whoever else you use) for them to supply you with a new map as the previously modified map won't overwrite the new OEM map. It's usually pretty painless and usually takes no more than 24 hours.
    #7
  9. SamDude
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    SamDude Active Member

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    [Jul 22, 2007]
    How much do Superchips charge to transfer the unit from one car to another?
    (I would call them, but they're closed and I can't wait until tomorrow to find out)...
    #8
  10. SamDude
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    SamDude Active Member

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    [Jul 23, 2007]
    Called Superchips to ask about the transfer/reset charge from one car (owner) to another.

    They said that it wasn't possible to transfer between owners, but would give me a 30% discount on a new unit if I give them the old one from my friend.

    That means that the cost goes from £600(ish) to £420(ish) after 30% off. Only worth it if you get an old unit practically given away to you...
    #9
  11. Teutonic_Tamer
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    Teutonic_Tamer GreasedMonkey HoofHearted

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    [Jul 24, 2007]
    Blufin = :no: :noway: :puke2:

    There have been a number of significant problems with both the Blufin device, and the general shyte quality of the SuperSh!ts software.

    Problems have been reported on the GolfGTI forum, with a poor map, because Superchips cant properly re-map the Bosch MED9 ECU (they were fecking useless with the earlier generation Bosch ME !!).

    There have also been problems on ukmkivs net, of blown turbos on diesels.

    I would only recommend a VAG-specific, and VAG dedicated tuner, to provide remapping services.

    Don't forget, anytime your car goes back in for servicing/warranty work, they will probably over-rite the ECU with the latest factory map! Most good REVO dealers are aware of this, and will probably offer to re-instate the REVO map after a stealer visit.
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  12. Teutonic_Tamer
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    Teutonic_Tamer GreasedMonkey HoofHearted

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    [Jul 24, 2007]
    Yup, and SuperSh!ts don't tell you that!

    Not quite true. All official stealers are linked to a central database, and will have on record the total number of ECU updates (re-flashes), throughout the entire dealer network. If the central database for example lists 3 updates, but the flash count is 10, then someone will start asking questions - maybe not immediately, but certainly for any warranty work!

    I'm looking now!
    #11
  13. Teutonic_Tamer
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    Teutonic_Tamer GreasedMonkey HoofHearted

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    [Jul 24, 2007]
    . . . is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

    Ask them to provide their full warranty statement, in written form, and you will see it has more holes than a swiss cheese!

    Just think, if you were to take your car to Superchips for any kind of remap, you nice shiny Audi could be along side a Lada Riva on your left, and a Kia Pride on your right! :no:

    Please, there are better re-maps, from people who have dedicated themselves to only VAG brand, for donkies years!
    #12
  14. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jul 25, 2007]
    I've had 5 cars remapped by Superchips with the last 2 being Bluefin application with absolutely no problems at all.I was also under the impression that the MKivs forum were all very pleased with their service after the numerous group buys so will have to log on to check it out as not frequented for a while.

    This is important to me as I'm about to transfer my Bluefin handset to the wifes car a jetta 2.0tdi DSG - FOC as classed as a reset at the superchips HQ.

    On every visit I have yet to see anything except expensive quality cars in the line up so it seems unfair to keep tarnishing them with the chav image of old, all companies can improve and it may be a case of poor franchise operators rather than the actual company and its products.

    Law of averages must state that for every satisfied customer there is bound to be a small percentage of unhappy ones so the same sort of comments could be levied at places like AMD according to past posts on here and on MKivs forum, generally people are happy to rant about bad experiences all day long whereas the happy folk just keep quiet.

    The service I have recieved and the gains have been superb which is the reason I return time and time again so this is all a bit of a revelation to me.

    No I'm not on commision or even remotely connected to superchips but do like to see everyone get a fair deal, I'll forward this link onto the tech director at superchips and see what he makes of it.

    Like I said i'm very interested as the wife's car covers 30k per year so the car needs to be reliable when she goes back to work in september.
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  15. timjhoward
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    timjhoward Audi Newbie

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    [Jul 26, 2007]
    Don't like the sound of the blown turbos, not something I would want to have to argue with a dealer about, and even with the Superchip warranty I would risk the lease firm finding out, which would be bad news! I have a Tunit tuning box on my current car, whilst the power gains were considerable I have started getting a few niggles with the engine/engine management recently. Now this could be the car at fault as just about every other system hyas failed (it's a Saab after all!), but I do begin to wonder if the blocked DPF I suffered may have had something to do with increased sooting caused by the tuning box? Also the torque converter had to be replaced recently, again could it be worn out due to the increased torque created? Going for a manual on the Audi so only the clutch to worry about, and I am pretty sure it will cope with the extra horses!

    Seems that people have had different experiences with different products, and up until recently I have been 100% over the moon with the Tunit on my Saab. I will never prove that the addition of that is what has caused the engine problems of late so it's unfair of me to slate them for it.

    I guess the Bluefin is a cheaper alternative, but I guess I shouldn't be looking at the cheapest, but the best. One of my biggest niggles with thye Saab is the timeshare arrangement I have with the stealer, we each have the car 50% of the time!! Whatever I do to the Audi, I don't want to keep loosing it to the dealer, so whether warrantied or not I want the device which will give least problems.

    I was always tempted with a REVO map in the days of my old Leon Cupra, but sadly I only heard about them with about a year of my lease to go and it didn't justify the cost. My biggest regret was not going to see them for the 2 hour trial just to feel the difference!

    Am I correct in thinking that the REVO SPS is similar to Bluefin in that you can flash/reflash the stock map and modified map as desired (for stealer visits etc?). And as it is mentioned in the responses, what does REVO do the the ECU flash count?
    #14
  16. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jul 26, 2007]
    I have checked out UKmkivs forum, looked in the MK5 tuning section and could find no unhappy customers with 2.0tdi superchip/bluefin remaps and in fact they are looking to launch another group buy ?!? This is the response I had from the Technical director of superchips/Bluefin after sending him the link to this thread, needless to say I'm still going ahead with my 'reset' on the 10/08....


    Morning Martin,
    Nice to hear from you Martin, hope you are well and thank you for the link. Posts similar to this have appeared across many forums, they usually relate to either our warranty or the bluefin. These two items are what separate us from the rest of the market place, along with our customer service.
    I am very pleased to say that we have not had any claims on our warranty at all, we have had cars with problems and have assisted customers in locating the problem but these ultimately have not been attributed to the Superchip conversion and have therefore been covered under the manufacturers warranty. The warranty offers assurance to dealerships that we would pay for anything that the oe warranty does not, therefore they are prepared to examine a car with a fault, despite being chipped, as they know they will get paid one way or the other. It is the fear of the Manufacturer throwing out a warranty claim after the work has been done that frightens service managers, the instant dismissal of a car because it is modified simply is not an issue.
    The bluefin reset policy is a complex one. Ultimately Superchips are selling remaps, the bluefin offers a convenient and easy method of delivering these and has the additional benefits of being a diagnostic tool and the ability to reprogram your car back to standard at will. We reset bluefin within the first year for the original owner for free, actually we generally replace the bluefin as it changes frequently and we would gladly supply a bluefin for any car in our current applications list. Once the year is up there is a small fee, the remap is after all a year old and any other tuner would not offer any refund at all if you were to sell your car. There are a number of interim stages but ultimately, a second hand bluefin that may still installed on a car and is therefore technically worthless as the remap is still in use, is worth a 30% discount on any current bluefin we offer. The flash counter is the only trace that the ecu has been reprogrammed and as pointed out in the thread, there is no trace of with what or by whom. Other methods of switching maps leave non standard code within the ecu and often drive differently to standard when “original”.
    We have many customers like yourself that come back time and time again, thank you. It is loyalty like this we strive for daily and we try to be flexible and accommodating with our policies and offer a service level that encourages it. Superchips staff are not allowed to post on forums, even under a pseudonym. We believe forums are places for enthusiasts to express and discuss without any self promotion or commercial interests. In the past companies have been given some quite fierce “flamings” but forum members these days are a little wiser and can generally see through unqualified comments or opinions.
    With regard to your subject of bad PR, discussion is healthy, the truth will always come out and only the facts will remain.

    Regards,

    Jamie Turvey
    #15
  17. mjsewell
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    mjsewell Member

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    [Jul 27, 2007]
    I've not had any personal experience of Superchips in a long time and the last time I did, they were the only UK company in the market. But, I do know two B6 drivers who've had problems after a Superchips remap and Superchips' warranty was of no use whatsoever. One needed a new turbo and one needed a new ECU and in both cases Superchips didn't want to know. That said, I guess there are many hundreds (thousands) of drivers who are perfectly happy.

    There were certainly early issues with remapping the B7 170 bhp 2.0TDi engine that meant most tuners had to back off on the power delivered in order to prevent "issues". Didn't pay much attention at the time as I've no interest in "sootchuckers" and it just registered in the back of my mind, I've got a feeling it was fuel pump related.

    Revo were infamous for leaving a lower powered version of the "standard" map on the ECU after you'd used their trial remap. Go in with 200bhp, come out with 250bhp and then six hours later you'd have 180bhp. Obviously a tool to make you want the missing power back and to buy the full remap. As far as I know, they've stopped doing this now, although it still reverts back to their version of a standard map (i.e. it's still not OEM).

    Like I said earlier the only remaps, I know of, that don't affect the ECU Flash Count are from GIAC (but there may well be others by now). So, each time you use the Bluefin or the SPS or similar, the count goes up by 1. When you switch back to the standard map, it goes up by another 1 and so on. The flash count is very visible on the diagnostics kit the dealers use and some of this data is transmitted back to Ingolstadt. So, I think it's fair to assume that only the most cursory inspection isn't going to reveal that something strange has been happening.

    Whichever solution you go for, at the end of the day, it's your choice and you take on the risks involved.
    #16
  18. Teutonic_Tamer
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    Teutonic_Tamer GreasedMonkey HoofHearted

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    [Jul 28, 2007]
    Erm . . . uk-mkivs are generally older-spec ECUs. Furthermore, people like a bargain. If they "think" they are getting a product similar to what competators offer, but cheaper (due to "group buy" discounts), then they will "feel" pleased.

    Being as we are discussing here in the B7 forum, ECUs will be the latest generation. It is these latest gen ECUs which Superchips have specific problems (and always have).

    Erm, again, you know that won't happen. It is a hollow promise from Superchips. The Bluefin devices are "locked" to the original car, and are non-transferrable. The only way that will happen is if you actually work for Superchips.

    So, you don't class a Ford ASBO, or a Astra VXR, or a Renault Megane, and the likes as "chav" ??

    You are absolutely correct - companies CAN improve, but sadly, Superchips maps don't. The only thing Superchips have improved is their marketing - and if you are taken in by marketing hype . . . well, I'll not answer that, because you will probably accuse me of being derrogatory.

    Regarding the "franchise" comment, a franchisee can only deal with the products they are supplied with. If they get **** products, then they will give **** service.

    Oh, I agree with you - some peeps just can't be pleased!

    Again, you are quite right. Bad news travels much faster than good.

    However, peeps who use Revo/AMD/GIAC/Oettinger/MTM are generally "enthusiasts", and read dedicated VAG mags and forums. Whereas, the vast majority of Superchips users are the "What Car" reading reps, who frequently have no brand loyalty, and switch between one brand an another. They get sucked in by the glossy adds in What Car, think it is gospel truth, go for Superchips, and think they are the bees knees. You will probably find those who do have problems, won't actually ask about it, instead removing it, for fear of jeopardising their lease agreements.

    Your comment on AMD is interesting. Previously, AMD enjoyed an excellent reputation. However, they were bought out by BigBoysToys, and all the top blokes left and formed a rival company. BBT are not a particularly "good" company to deal with! <wink>

    OK, fine. Pleased you like it.

    Hmmm - you are "not on commision", yet you have contact with the "tech director at superchips" . . . I see a conflict in your statement!
    #17
  19. SteveTDCi
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    SteveTDCi Active Member

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    [Jul 29, 2007]
    I've had 2 cars mapped by superchips and have always received good service, but then again I must have no brand loyalty as I read what car too .. I thought superchips were involved with VW racing ?????? anyhow, remind me never to come to you for a remap, ranting about rival tuning companies doesn't seem the best thing to do IMO
    #18
  20. rich1068
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    rich1068 Member

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    [Jul 30, 2007]
    I don't usually wander into the A4 forum but I was told there was an interesting chat about Superchips/Bluefin going on.

    Teutonic_Tamer :laugh: Christ, what a twat!
    #19
  21. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jul 30, 2007]
    I second that nomination. Very, very unprofessional to knock the competition.

    For the record I class myself as an enthusiast but must confess to reading the occasional 'What Car' mag as well as my monthly subscriptions to Audi driver, Evo and occasional purchases of various tuner mags, didn't realise reading mainstream mags made my opinion worth any less, my opinion is at least based on personal experience.

    On the subject of my 'relationship' to the Tech director and my having his e-mail address, if you visit Superchips HQ for a remap they will happily take you on a tour of their facilities including their R&D depts and Jamie who is himself very enthusiastic about the company was more than happy to give me a biz card, I think it's whats commonly referred to as 'Good Customer Service'.

    The whole idea behind the forums is IMO about sharing experiences good or bad to enable people to make an 'informed' decision.

    When I had my first remap I was extremely nervous when selecting the company who would do the work, afterall if you have a car worth over £20K you want to be sure all the R&D has been carried out to ensure the tune levels are 'safe' - I opted for Superchips by recommendation with Oettinger (RSD) a close 2nd followed by Revo. I rate the majority of the rival companies very highly and still think its down to the individual and his personal choice, most of these companies although in competition generally rate each other very highly, I've had the power claims of several of my cars verified at independant R/Road days and have yet to come across any negative comments about the power or how it is being produced.

    We all like to think we have made the right decision, I stand by mine.
    #20
  22. rich1068
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    rich1068 Member

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    [Jul 30, 2007]
    Best not argue with him though. Sounds like he knows what he's talking about :)
    #21

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