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Blue smoke when accelerating!

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by S3KO4, Apr 4, 2010.

  1. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 4, 2010]
    I have just replaced the oil and filter, with Carlube triple R 5W40 fully synthetic, but there is a lot of blue smoke coming out especially under hard acceleration, I know I can cure it with the stop smoke liquid, but just wondering how bad is this, I'm sure it not the turbo, but suspected rings. What sort of price are we talking here to get the rings and labour? Is it safe to drive her as it is! I am also planning to go Santa Pod again, is this likely to deteriorate things further!
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  3. golf
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    golf ***** rent boy VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    Has this only been happening after the oil change or has it always been a problem? The piston rings are usually very durable and blue smoke is normally because of turbo related problems. It could simply be a case of overfilled oil.
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  4. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    my money says over filled

    bwahahahaa and "stop smoke liquid" will fix an overfill how?
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  5. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp?

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    [Apr 5, 2010]

    X 2
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  6. martin g
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    martin g [censored]

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    Try dropping the sump plug, draining say half a litre and seeing if it goes away.
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  7. [Dave B]
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    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    How much oil did you put in??
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  8. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    Thank you all for the inputs, I have put 4.5L it was a bit of a problem before, but it went away. the dip stick shows spot on, at the top mark! could it be just be over filled! what would happen to the engine if I drive as it is?
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  9. ALPINE
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    ALPINE Yes its diesel, now cry u lost

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    put it this way.. over filling is as worse as under filling!
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  10. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    Ok guys, I will remove about 1/2 liter see if it helps, would the change happen straight away or after some drive!
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  11. Sandip
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    Sandip Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    You'll probably get a little smoke at first but should go pretty quick, is the car boosting ok, hope it's not the turbo
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  12. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    Hi Sandip, car boosts fine, just issue with smokes, it's not turbo as I checked downpipe and all looked dry, including around the turbo
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  13. Sandip
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    Sandip Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    Cool, hopefully it's nothing too serious
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  14. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    Removed 1.5L to be on the safe side, went down below minimum line, then placed about 1/2 L and drove around, there was some smoke initially then, I gave it the beans and stopped smoking, I put a bit more to bring it to half on the dip stick. just to be safe, I think that’s how she likes it! thank you all, I hope it wont come back.
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  15. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Car is still smoking, so rings must be all worn out, I have no choice but to top up with stop smoke until summer to rebuild the engine
    not happy at all
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  16. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Arse, bad news matey.

    Whats the mileage on the car?
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  17. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    have you checked your breather system etc that could be dumping oil back into the intake

    do a compression test before you even touch the head
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  18. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Agreed. Don't just accept that it's the rings and go for that. Check all other possibilities first.
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  19. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Car has done 134k, it runs sweet very responsive but just oil issue. Which breather pipes do I check!
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  20. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Compression test first!

    Thats a pretty belt and braces way of finding out what is happening inside the cylinders:icon_thumright:
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  21. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Ok I will see who has the compression test to do it for me. How much should I pay for the check!
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  22. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]

    Shouldn't be too much. I haven't ever paid for one myself as I have a compression tester, so I don't really know!

    An hours labour should cover it I would think. :(
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  23. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    if they charge you an hour to do a compression test then make sure you bring plenty of vaseline when they give you the bill for the engine rebuild!
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  24. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    I may add the smoke does not come out when pushing the accelerator but when you come off it, normaly above 3k rpm mainly when the engine has load on it. But it is big enough to notice at 70mph not a nice look for Audi.
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  25. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    LOL, I was thinking about all the faffing with taking off the N249 and bracket etc... coils out, test, then refit.

    OK OK, an hour if the YTS kiddie does it..... :sorry:
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  26. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    This is taken from another thread here: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?71712-BLUE-SMOKE-S3

    "If its puffing blue smoke until it warms up then it is something to worry about.

    Valve stem seals could be your problem, when the car is turned off in the night the oil left in the crankcase is left there to drain, some of this oil can seep past the valve stem seals down the valve stems and into the cylinders over night, as the engine warms up the next day this oil will be burned and expelled as blue smoke from the exhaust.

    Turbo smoke is normally most apparant when the engine and oil is warm after a drive let the car tick over for a few minutes then give it a rev, if you get blue smoke then its more than likely that the oil control rings/seals on the exhaust side of the turbo are leaking which will seep oil into the hot exhaust housing and when you rev it the smoke will be blown through the exhaust.

    If you get smoke on gear changes this can be caused by the thrust bearings in the turbo being damaged and allowing vertical play through the core of the turbo, this is most apparant when you change gear or leave off the throttle and put it back down because the change from boost to vacuum puts strain on the shaft which will move if the bearings are damaged, seep oil and give you smoke.

    Piston ring smoke is mostly seen on a warm engine and under load up a hill for example on constant throttle. It can also be seen after a long over-run down a hill letting the car coast in 4th for example and then revving it at the bottom of the hill, the vacuum in the engine can cause oil to be sucked past the piston rings. Worn piston rings can also cause heavy breathing and can push oil out of the crankcase breather.

    Hope this helps."

    Sorry for the copy and paste - typing all that myself on a Tuesday (Monday) morning didn't grab me...
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  27. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Did your car pass the mot yet!
    I know it won't need an hour labour, it's a case of remove spark plugs etc
    simples I hope
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  28. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Yep, straight through this morning. :icon_thumright:
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  29. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Ahhh yes, but there is a bunch of stuff in the way which has to be removed, before you can remove coils 2 and 3 and get to the plugs to remove them.

    And ultimately, what has to be removed, must be refitted.
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  30. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Sounds more like valve stem seals then, is this an expensive job! And how long are we talking here, would be a good idea to do belt and water pump since it will be all opened up.
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  31. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    So it's smoking blue on cold start?
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  32. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    no smoke on start up, just a bit of steam I think. Smoke puffs out when you drive hard and lift off the gas, car boost ok, it moves fine, happy with performance.
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  33. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Oh no reading this

    "The thrust bearings in the turbo being damaged and allowing vertical play through the core of the turbo, this is most apparant when you change gear or leave off the throttle and put it back down because the change from boost to vacuum puts strain on the shaft which will move if the bearings are damaged, seep oil and give you smoke."

    sounds a bit like my problem :faint:
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  34. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    I would of thought it was the turbo myself. Piston ring wear, even at that mileage is a bit unusual. Mine came out of the APY at 125,000 looking top notch.
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  35. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Just want to say, Adding the stop smoke does stop the smoke about 90%, does that say something about the turbo as well? or is it still engine components?
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  36. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Hard to say mate. I believe stop smoke treatment is designed to thicken up rubber seals and stop them leaking oil.

    This means that, if it works, it could be stem seals or turbo seals.

    Stem seals is unlikely due to no smoke on cold start.

    Have a look inside your charge pipe coming off the turbo. How much oil residue is in there? Also check the pipe which goes to the throttle body for oil.

    A little oil is normal. A lot of oil is bad.
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  37. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Thanks Welly, I have checked the charge pipe it had very small amount of oil, but I will check the other one, soon.
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  38. golf
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    golf ***** rent boy VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    I reckon it's your turbo. My A4 turbo was smoking when warm and at idle. It was boosting normally and didn't even make the 'dentist drill' noise. Spent weeks faffing about changing bits and bobs in the hope it would be something minor, but in the end changed turbo and no more blue smoke.
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  39. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    Thanks everyone, I have added stop smoke, and it has gone away for now, I hope it wont come back, if it becomes unbearable I would go for bigger turbo that would need little modification to the rest of the car, i.e. injectors, manifold etc.
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  40. hillary2005
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    hillary2005 New Member

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    [Apr 6, 2010]
    this has been an interesting read!

    my S3 is doing basically the same but the engine was apparently rebuilt with forged pistons etc 6000 miles ago. Been trying to find out what has been going wrong so have a few things to check tomorrow. My thoughts have gone from rings to turbo.....hmmmm
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  41. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Apr 7, 2010]
    S3s have forged pistons as standard.....
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