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Blue smoke S3

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by ty160, May 6, 2009.

  1. ty160
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    ty160 s3 tys

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    [May 6, 2009]
    hey all was wondering if anyone could help on starting my s3 from cold it puffs out blue smoke out of the exshaust untill the temprature gets up then does not is fine no smoke is this normal?? only mod on my standard bam s3 03 reg is a forge splitter r dv valve would this be causein the problem cheers? is the turbo goin 50000miles on car?
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  3. kaizokuninja
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    kaizokuninja Member

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    [May 6, 2009]
    taken from this site clicktacular

    ''Blue oil smoke at idle; Defective turbo seals, excessive bearing wear, defective breather system or restricted turbo oil drain system.''

    May not be any of them but blue smoke generally points to oil.

    just FYI i know smeg all about this subject i just googled blue smoke on turbo engine.
    Its a good way to start when you wanna know something, but obviously the chaps on here will give you better knowledge about audi specific probs! =)
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  4. lackjohn
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    lackjohn New Member

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    [May 6, 2009]
    i had that on my s3,but an oil change and a new oil filter changed all that, now running so much quieter and faster.didnt need a service but the oil does tend to burn if u drive the car keenly.worth doing first
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  5. ty160
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    ty160 s3 tys

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    [May 6, 2009]
    so nout to worry about thn
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  6. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [May 6, 2009]
    Not neccessarily, id take it to a garage just tobe safe.
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  7. TurboDave
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    TurboDave Member

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    [May 6, 2009]
    If its puffing blue smoke until it warms up then it is something to worry about.

    Valve stem seals could be your problem, when the car is turned off in the night the oil left in the crankcase is left there to drain, some of this oil can seep past the valve stem seals down the valve stems and into the cylinders over night, as the engine warms up the next day this oil will be burned and expelled as blue smoke from the exhaust.

    Turbo smoke is normally most apparant when the engine and oil is warm after a drive let the car tick over for a few minutes then give it a rev, if you get blue smoke then its more than likely that the oil control rings/seals on the exhaust side of the turbo are leaking which will seep oil into the hot exhaust housing and when you rev it the smoke will be blown through the exhaust.

    If you get smoke on gear changes this can be caused by the thrust bearings in the turbo being damaged and allowing vertical play through the core of the turbo, this is most apparant when you change gear or leave off the throttle and put it back down because the change from boost to vacuum puts strain on the shaft which will move if the bearings are damaged, seep oil and give you smoke.

    Piston ring smoke is mostly seen on a warm engine and under load up a hill for example on constant throttle. It can also be seen after a long over-run down a hill letting the car coast in 4th for example and then revving it at the bottom of the hill, the vacuum in the engine can cause oil to be sucked past the piston rings. Worn piston rings can also cause heavy breathing and can push oil out of the crankcase breather.

    Hope this helps.
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  8. Kingston
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    Kingston Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    My blows blue/grey smoke after a long run. I will sit at the lights rev it and when the engine comes back to idle it blows smoke for a couple of seconds then stops? whats this in your opinion
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  9. Sandip
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    Sandip Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Mine used to blow quite a quite lot of blue smoke when it was left to idle, after changing the breather and changing a broken breather pipe what goes to the head it now smokes very little, check all the breather pipes first, it'll only take 10minutes. I'd change the oil and filter aswell
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  10. Kingston
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    Kingston Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Cheers will do that. Just been for a ten min run blew smoke when i first started it but then nothing at all even when idling or revving at traffic lights.
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  11. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    so have an isuue, another one!! just been into oxford to meet the misses and have noticed blue smoke coming from exhaust. only seems to happen whilst pulling away in first and sometimes on gear changes. so when i got home i put it on the drive and had it in neaural and just started revving it slightly, when the revs start to drop it smokes, everytime!

    sometimes its very minial, sometimes its more. i do also have a very very slight oil leak, which haasn yet been pin pointed. seems to be coming from top end of engine somewhere.

    im not that concerned yet as the actual drive of the car isnt being affected. but i am worried i may be leading to something disasterous!

    so where do i start first? what breather pipes to i check? and how to check if its my turbo? because im hoping (fingers crossed) it isnt piston rings and valve seals!!

    any help and advice is VERY handy, cheers:)
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  12. colicabcadam
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    colicabcadam Guest

    [Feb 1, 2012]
    are you sure it's blue smoke and not white steam ?
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  13. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    Deffo blue smoke. I'll try and film it then post vid up. Did cross my mind as the weather is so cold so could be white smoke. But it also has an odour aswell as blue tinge to it. Weather it's burnt oil smell or not I don't no
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  14. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    [video]http://s683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/feates/?action=view&current=fdc7f283.mp4[/video]
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  15. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    Blue smoke on idle does tend to be the stem seals in my experience. Turbo seals failing normally results in smoke on boost which is normally easy to see when booting it.

    The best way to test, and what we have done in the past is to blank off the high pressure oil line to the turbo, and hold the comp wheel still with maul grips or something else suitable and leave to idle. IDLE only.

    After a few minutes, the turbo will be effectively dry and without any oil inbound, if the smoke was coming from the turbo, the smoke would stop after a few mins at idle in this situation.

    If the smoke continues, then it's most likely the seals.

    My TT does just this - and I know full well it's the seals. No smoke under boost at all, however leave it idling for any perios of time, then rev, big cloud.

    The longer you leave it idling, the worse the smoke will be. The TT (like my S3 with failed stem seals) draws oil through at idle, due to the vacuum condition produced by the cylinder at idle. Under boost, the air is being pressurised into the cylinder keeping the oil in the head.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
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  16. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    it does actually tend to be worse if left idling longer. so from what youve just mentioned, im led to believe its the stem seals. big job?
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  17. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    Head off and a job for a head reconditioner really mate, sorry to break it to you. Never good news. What's the mileage out of interest. Might be worth getting a garage to do the test I mentioned before hand to confirm or deny that before whipping the head off, you never know.

    It is usually pretty obvious when looking at the head once off, photos below of my head removed and the oil that was causing the idle smoking. This is pretty drastic as was a heavy fail, I don't expect the TT's to be this bad, but should still be pretty clear. Last one is the head ready for refit.

    Some may use use something like stop smoke which will attempt to 'plump up' the seals, but this won't fix permanently, if at all.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
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  18. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    108k nearly. Smoke fooking smells so bad. Feel sorry for other road users. How much you think it's a reasonable price for a garage to removed the head? I really dont have the time for it tbh. If I new exactly how to do it I would. Just when the car starts running right and it gets booked in for a power run. The bloody car decides to throw a wobbly!
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  19. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    Like I said mate, get it to a garage and get a second opinion. Don't take what I've said on an internet forum as gospel. I suspect that it will be the problem - that doesn't mean it is and fault diagnosis without seeing the car isn't easy.

    Head removal requires a new head gasket, head bolts and timing belt kit, plus stem seals and labour - get a few quotes.
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  20. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    Just called my local Audi specialist and they said about £500 at a rough guess as they don't have part prices to hand. He recommends changing oil and filter and run for a few days to see if it clears up. Because if the oil is too thin it will break through. Just had a cambelt service too. Bo**ox!!
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  21. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    That advice has already been parted earlier in the thread - what oil are you using out of interest?
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  22. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    Mobil 1 ESP 5W/30 fully synthetic Oil?
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  23. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    OK, that is thin fully synthetic oil out of the box.

    If you are going to change the oil maybe go for a little thicker to see if that improves the situation.

    5w 40 Fully Synth or 10w 40 Semi Synth will be fine as long as they meet VW 504 spec.
    #22
  24. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    Yeah I know, never had issues before though. Used it for two years. Which oil do you recommend tuffty. Btw your a true star for all the help dude!
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  25. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    I'm not suggesting that the oil is the problem, what is the problem is something leaking it.

    Thinner oil will be more prone to leaking - it's like water vs treacle for example coming out of a funnel. The water will come out faster.
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  26. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    5w40 fully synth... I use Quantum Platinum

    <tuffty/>
    #25
  27. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    Yeah I'm going to change oil and filter tomorrow. Run it till Sunday see if it clears. If not I'm booking it in. Getting it sorted the. Selling up. Big talk with my old man has led me to realise its really not ideal for someone trying to save for a new house
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  28. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    Ok mate, let us know how it goes.
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  29. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    I never get this "oh i need to save so i'm going to sell the car" rubbish.

    You've had the car a while, have put time and effort into it etc, and now your going to sell it (effectively throwing away and wasting all the money you have put into it) and presumably buy something cheaper/****ter in the hope that it will somehow cost you less money?

    Theres no guarantee that any other car you buy will be any better, things break, **** happens, and cheap cars will invariably need things done to them.

    If your trying to save for a house then sure curb the modifying/upgrading and just enjoy the car as it is, maintaining it as and when its required. The couple grand your going to end up with from selling the S3 and buying some crapbox isnt going to get you anywhere near a house deposit, so whats the point?
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  30. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 1, 2012]
    You no what, that comment is so true.
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  31. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 2, 2012]
    Just been advised to use 0w40 Mobil 1 new life oil? Anyone else Using this. There isn't a single place new me that stocks quantum platinum! And need to get oil done today.
    #30
  32. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 2, 2012]
    5w40 fully synth....

    Quantum Platinum is from TPS, GSF sell Fuchs Titan Supersyn IIRC or ECP do Carlube Triple R both of which I have used before

    <tuffty/>
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  33. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 2, 2012]
    Just got some 5w40 fully synthetic Mobil super 3000. Has the vw 502 and 505 code aswell. Only places near to me are all parts and ECP
    #32
  34. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 2, 2012]
    That'll do :)

    <tuffty/>
    #33
  35. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 2, 2012]
    Problem is even worse now. Makes me want to scream lol! Garage is just getting me a price for parts and labour. Reckons about £500 ish.

    When I checked level after oil change there was a small amount of brown sludge on bottom of dipstick. I know that usually means head gasket but the coolant looks all good and oil wasn't contaminated?
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  36. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 2, 2012]
    Short journeys in cold weather can cause the odd bit of brown sludge to appear on the dipstick or filler cap. Its normal.
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  37. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 2, 2012]
    Cheers for clearing that up. Car is booked in for Monday now. £572 all in for new head gasket valve stem seals and water pump as I didn't get one fitted on cambelt service other week. Hoping it is the seals. Praying in fact. Apparently it's common for the engines to develop brittle stem seals at this age. 10 yrs old and 110k nearly isn't that old really is it? My old man has a 1996 ford galaxy that has never let him down, he doesn't even service it
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  38. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Feb 7, 2012]
    Just a little update, garage have replaced stem seals but they weren't atall brittle really. So they are now replacing all piston rings. Anything else I should get them to do whilst the whole bloody thing is apart? I was thinking some new rods. But can't really afford them.
    #37
  39. Alais DJA
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    Alais DJA Member

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    [Feb 7, 2012]
    Porting and polishing :)
    #38
  40. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 7, 2012]
    Piston rings sounds a bit far fetched to me from your description, but i guess when its all apart its not adding THAT much additional work.

    Get them to carefully check the valve guides for play, and replace if necessary. If these are shot it will be exactly the same once its rebuilt with new rings and stem seals!

    I'd be sticking a set of rods in when its apart if you have any intention of tuning the engine beyond the bounds of the standard turbo.
    In terms of additional labour costs now, its zero, as the rods are already out the engine to do the rings. Should you decide later then it all needs to come apart again. Ofcourse it is an additional £400 for the rods themselves, meaning the costs are fairly mounting up.
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  41. Alais DJA
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    Alais DJA Member

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    [Feb 7, 2012]
    Im 100% on this.....it's like re-building your house, when the foundations are down u can go everything and work around it.

    I know if my engince came out for re-build, i'll be tapping up a £3000 credit card and get EVERYTHING done with the knowledge that i wont ever have to open up the engine again ( touch wood )

    Cost is always a major issue, but i can come to an arrangement with my mechanic - weekly cash drop-offs. Maybe they might be able to do something.
    #40

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