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Big turbo?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by teljacko, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. teljacko
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    teljacko New Member

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    [Aug 26, 2009]
    1.8t need advice i want my a3 to fly... whats the best way to add sum bhp its running standard, i was thinking maybe a new turbo. any sudgestions ?:hubbahubba:
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  3. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 26, 2009]
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  4. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Aug 26, 2009]
    Save up and buy an S3 instead :)
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  5. teljacko
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    teljacko New Member

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    [Aug 26, 2009]
    when im finished with it, it will be faster than a s3
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  6. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 26, 2009]
    OOOOoooooooh good retort

    but it will still look like an A3 :eyebrows: a bit like the new S3 I guess
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  7. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 27, 2009]

    Won't be faster than mine :eyebrows: LOL!!!!

    You may want to do a search for the member Mat20vt, he has a big turbo A3 and his build thread is on here...

    <tuffty/>
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  8. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    [Aug 27, 2009]
    Faster than a s3? Quite a broad statement lol.
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  9. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 27, 2009]
    nah its easy when Tufftys S3 is doing 65mph we can easily sail past him in the TQS at 70.

    Seriously, are you looking for it to be faster than a std S3? then throw 6k at your A3 and you should be ok in a straight line, not so much around corners, or off the line though.

    However, the plus side is the 2wd A3 is lighter than an S3 by around 200kg
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  10. emery1990
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    emery1990 Active Member

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    [Aug 27, 2009]
    to get ya a3 to s3 std, youll need a k03s with an exaust and orther mods, then a remap to to 225bhp.
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  11. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Sep 1, 2009]
    If you have a FWD A3 then it can be as quick as a STD S3 with just a chip, as the weight saving and reduction in power loss of a 2WD compared to the Haldex 4WD will make up for the rest. (This is in the dry only by the way!) Off the line the S3 would still have a chipped A3 in most cases but on the move the A3 can pull well especially as it can hold the gears longer.
    Through the corners with some suspension mods you can about keep up with an S3 due to the weight difference....but don't think about it against a very good driver in an S3 or most importantly in the wet!

    Quite a few guys in the past have gone the large turbo route from the companies like jabbasport, but if you want bang for your buck then just go with a chip (remap) until you get bored and then move on from there.
    3 days after having my '98 A3 chipped (Oettinger) it ran a 0-60 in 6.49 seconds and the 1/4 in 15.24, which was not bad at all as I wasn't used to the new map at all.....RichA3Turbo was not happy at the time as he was against me in his APR'd A3 (I'm sure that's why he went and put a massive turbo on it!).

    You will need to think about upgrading the brakes when chipping as they are the biggest issue when driving hard, and then you can look at exhausts etc. but I never found the need to change much but the chip, suspension, brakes and wheels.
    Over time you'll want more power, but that is normal and I guess I am spoilt these days in taht respect so don't drive the A3 very often.
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  12. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Sep 2, 2009]
    15.24 1/4 mile is not quick
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  13. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Sep 2, 2009]
    Is that all you have to say.......I said it was not bad for a 3 day old map, and for an A3 it isn't bad at all, and as the 0-60 time was on the same run it was obvious I held second for too long. Anyway I din't say it was quick but to put it into relative terms what does the standard S3 run it in? Around 14.5 and giving the clutch a good old battering, so as I said it wasn't bad.

    A chipped A3 will see around the high 14's to high 15's, with a standard S3 managing to shave time off of this into low to mid 14's, but the A3 will do it many more times before the clutch gives up the ghost.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
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  14. badger5
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    [Sep 3, 2009]
    your oettinger map is not one of the most potent out there..
    3 days old is irrelevant to the adaption

    good 0-60 for sure given the low 1/4, and terminal speed (which you did'nt post)

    are you pitching your a3 2wd against being better than the 4wd cousins?

    bizarre pitch..

    4wd is heavier than 2wd, but to a point 4wd will make better use of the higher power levels, wet or dry.
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  15. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 3, 2009]
    yup i have to agree 15.24 is pretty **** for a mapped A3, and the argument about us wearing our clutches out is pretty pointless considering the most prominent argument is road use.....

    you can make pretty much any car go faster than an S3, just depends how much your willing to throw at it....then you have the cost versus benefit argument....plus your in a country which is wet 60% of the time.... think first before wasting your cash on sumat you cant use day to day when there are comaprable cheaper options with far more street cred
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  16. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Sep 3, 2009]
    Geez, why don't people actually read what is written!

    The 3 days point was relevant to me as the driver (as I said) and the limited time I had not to the actual map itself, and I am certain this is why the 0-60 wasn't bad, but the 1/4 wasn't great.

    I am not pitching anything, and did I say anything about being better or not? The question by the OP was how to get the car to go quicker.
    I will state for a fact that a chipped A3 will keep up and can move away from a standard S3 when rolling and I have done the same with chipped S3's as well. On the move getting the power down is not a problem for the A3 and the losses from a 4WD system (25-30% vs 13-15% typically) plus the weight manage to balance things out....which you seem to have overlooked.

    If I had had the cash when I bought my A3 all them years ago then there would have been no doubt that I would have taken the S3 for many reasons. However you work with what you've got which in the OP's case is an A3, and personally no I would not put a big turbo kit on a FWD car, but some minor mods can bring the car close to an S3.

    At 1animal1 the question was not about road use but in relation to Badger5 and 1/4 mile, and agree on the road clutches don't become a defining factor.

    At no point did I say anything was better than something else, or talk about the A3 being better than the S3, so I don't know why you are so anti.
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  17. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 3, 2009]
    Gam my post wasn't aimed specifically at you, although it did address briefly two points that you made.....

    I am in no way anti...i have owned both for what it matters.... but im trying to be realistic for the original poster..... i would question that you have beaten a standard S3 in your chipped A3 running a Ko3 turbo.....the fact that you state you have also 'done' some chipped S3's is laughable..... i fully undestand the losses through the haldex system, i understand the weight advantage you have also, but lets get realistic here..... if you beat a chipped S3 then there was either sumat wrong with it or the driver was humouring you.... trust me i know exactly what the A3 1.8T can do, i owned one for 6 years prior to this car

    Regards getting 6.49 0-60 on a 1/4 mile sprint, id say you've done extremely well taking an 8.2 sec car to 6.49 secs with just a map then falling short of the rest of the 1/4 mile which is essentially the easy bit... your start is always the hardest part - work the logic out

    It was the tone and how you have worded your posts that have created the replies you have gotten

    You will find that most on here are very friendly people, no harm is intended most of the time except when 'fluffy' advice is given... in which case be prepared to accept that there are people more experienced on here than you, argue your point by all means if you can back it up - in my reply i have challenged your post as there are irregularities
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
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  18. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Sep 3, 2009]


    i think YOU should read your own post, as its did not come across like you think it did at all

    and i do know quite well thanks what power to weight means in reality, and 2wd vs 4wd performance.. lol ;)

    :D
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  19. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Sep 3, 2009]
    1animal1 I have been part of the forum for a long time and although have taken a little time away you can see by my post count that I was relatively active, so I know how the forum works and have been here longer than most.

    You may have had both, but certainly the A3 can keep up with an S3 and I certainly have kept up with chipped S3's as a number of former members would have told you as seen in reality by them first hand. I can tell you we did plenty of Autobahn testing, so am certain of the results.

    I fluffed the quarter mile as it was my first, and as I said holding second gear for way too long gave me the quick 60 time as I didn't waste time going to third, but ultimately that cost me on the whole. Again plenty of former guys from tehse boards were there to witness the run so there's no logic to be worked out.

    You called my facts "fluffy" but as you have not backed anything you have said up with figures, where as I have with actual figures and real world information, what is "fluffy" here?

    I don't care what you say about a chipped S3 or std S3 a chipped A3 is dam close when you take into account the power losses and weight differences and that is fact. If you take the drive train losses into account then actual whp is about the same between a chipped A3 and the Std S3, but then add the 200kg difference and the FWD A3 is ahead in the stakes.

    Badger I'm sorry but did I not say this "which was not bad at all as I wasn't used to the new map at all" in my first post. Which was not refering to the map, but to me, was it not?! You say you know something then why do you argue with the facts in this case of power, drivetrain loss and weight?
    Nothing in your posts provides anything of basis so how would one know that you know about power to weight etc?

    Again I like both the A3 (just cos it comes with the 1.8T in it) and the S3 and not once have I said the A3 is better than the other.

    Read your original post on this 1animal1 and see where you jumped in about clutches, which as I clearly stated was in relation to the 1/4 mile.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
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  20. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Sep 3, 2009]
    whatever.. I am not arguing with you.

    power to weight I understand fully.. your point of a3 2wd vs a3/s3 quatt is valid, whilst also being pointless. if that floats ya boat on what a 2wd a3 can do with its 4wd cousin fine..

    the picture in the siggy is a clue btw on why I know.

    have a search around some more and you will see who I am and what I do with 1.8t's

    enjoy

    no offence intended btw, but 4wd is nice to have for sure in all weathers, especially when pushing decent power levels.
    #19
  21. indiemike
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    indiemike ZoomZoom

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    [Sep 3, 2009]
    For the amount of money you will need to spend its probs better selling up and getting a good S3 and they look better
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  22. simch
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    simch Active Member

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    [Sep 3, 2009]

    Hi, your point on the transmission loss on the s3 is wrong. Weight, yes, S3 heavier, transmission loss irrelevant, as it is driving two sets of wheels only under certain load circumstances. Haldex will quite often be near 90% fwd and in this situation, the transmission loss of the rear wheels is only 10% of the total for the front, so a couple of % or so.

    Anyway, I have had both, still do in fact, a K03s golf 18t, with decat, 3 inch DP, very agressive map on 99 RON only, making 241hp. This car was no quicker than my stock 225 BAM S3. S3 with larger turbo held its power as long, different gearing meant it was more work to keep boiling, but when you did it was quicker than the golf. Top speed was also marginally quicker in the S3, 151mph on the GPS compared to a max of 149mph acheieved in the golf. Aero and gearing no doubt to blame.

    You will spend a fair bit tweaking the A3 18T to get similar performance, but ultimately the S3 will still be the better car with more potential.
    Chassis wise, the FWD platform is easier and cheaper to get to handle very well, and I find it more fun that my tweaked S3, more pointy, looser back end, the indy rear suspension of the S3 is not easy to get to handle well. In some ways it is too grippy, but when it lets go it is less progressive that the live rear beam.

    Anyway, enjoy your tweaked A3, but you will get bored and hanker mroe oomph. It therefore may be more const effective to move on to the S3 earlier!
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  23. emery1990
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    emery1990 Active Member

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    [Sep 3, 2009]
    dont just sell ya a3 to get an s3, if your young that is. if your older then you should of got a3 quattro or s3 in the first place, so that you can get high powers out of it, just get a remap. take it up to like 190bhp.
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  24. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    We'll agree to disagree on that, as I thought the power was 80-20 front rear bias, and still there is loss just from driving more components.

    The golf is heavier than the A3 albeit marginal, and certainly when my A3 had 40,000 miles on the clock, it could outpace S3's and that was with minor changes. I saw 255 km/h on the climate control which showed on the GPS as 244km/h (151.6 mph) on the Autobahn, but boy did it take a while to get there, and the joy was short lived as one of the guys in a chipped S8 came stonking past at 278-280 km/h.

    You say your Golf is not as quick as your 225 S3, but with 241hp, 2WD (Yes less power loss) and significant weight difference, then I guess you mean from a standing start, because everything else would say your golf would be a bit quicker once moving.

    The S3 is a better platform without doubt than the A3, but you work with what you've got and I guess these days with the prices of the S3 being where they are it would be difficult to justify spending the moeny on substantial mods for an A3 and simply not changing it for the S3.

    Badger, sorry but the picture simply suggests you race a car nothing else to me, but obviously then I must take everything you say as gospel?!! How can you say something is valid yet pointless, when it is directly related to the discussion.
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  25. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    ...and its a 1000kg 550bhp+ (can't remember the last power run figure) FWD Ibiza... so I suspect what Bill is trying to say is that he does actually know about power to weight ratio.... as well as the pros and cons of the whole 2wd v 4wd argument..

    He also does a little more than race a car btw... :rolleyes:

    <tuffty/>
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  26. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    Gamba you come on here talking absolute tripe (not far off) but none the less tripe...... first of all if you had been indeed 'lurking' in the midst since the end of time then you should know exactly who badger Bill is........ or is that the irony? or maybe you don't pay attention when you should

    Second of all i know full well what i wrote and know exactly what my A3 used to do....and that car was a damn good one, but no way would it have kept up with an S3 chipped or not.......possibly mid range with cold IC's against a standard S3 but no more....if you have members that will prove otherwise then i hope you can wheel them in to save yourself some credibility....as for figures, they mean nothing to me as most are fudged - for instance i read about some clown claiming 6.49 secs in a KO3'd A3 (what timing gear was used for this and where was this supposed time).... i wouldnt imagine you'd be far off this but really.... you said 'I will state for a fact that a chipped A3 will keep up and can move away from a standard S3 when rolling' - i contest that based upon my knowledge of my old car
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  27. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    Sorry but Badger5 only has 100 or so posts, so why would I know him?

    Look at my join date and the number of posts, and then if you like do a search and you'll see the posts and the refernece from others that took trips over to the ring with us on Tyresmoke.

    I don't need to wheel anyone out because it is all on these boards. The time was recorded at GTI inters, and as I said RichA3Turbo was in the other lane, and close by was Ess3 (mod on here). The photos show the times, but don't see the need to pull them out.
    I was slow to react off the line which may also account towards the 1/4 mile time.

    Why would a car with a better power to weight ratio not be quicker exactly on the move?

    I suggest you look at the tripe you talk that is not based on anything.

    I now remember why this place had such a high turnover of members.
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  28. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    judging someone by post count is'nt going to tell you anything other than how much time he wastes on a particular forum. SCN is where i spend most of my time and the post count there is >23,600

    and what does that mean?
    nothing at all, aside from i spend most time there in SEAT land, not bickering with people like you on here.

    comparing post count as well as comparing your cars performance to others says a lot to me about you. ;)

    the guys you mention all know me.. ask em who i am and what i do, then maybe, just maybe, we can put this to bed - ok?

    regards
    bill
    #27
  29. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    cant imagine at all.... what with people like you around... its amazing.
    #28
  30. Olly P
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    Olly P My other cars a mk2 Golf GTi

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  31. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    Ok, what did I miss? and what all this talk about post count? :)
    #30
  32. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    not a lot jojo....im going to disappear into a corner now because of my verbal battering...im bruised for gods sake!!

    be good for Glen to confirm any of this info..... if infact it is correct, although i still stand by what i say based on my own experiences, the A3 mapped or not would NOT move away from a standard or mapped S3 mid range or not
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  33. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    I would say there wouldn't be much in it for a mapped A3 vs Standard S3, the gearing is slightly longer in an A3 also(You can hit 60+ in 2nd!) which would make a slight difference also. All in a straight line of course.
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  34. S3 Rav
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    S3 Rav Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    bloody hell guys calm down man... can i just add here. my cousin has a a4 1.8tqs with superchips remap and a miltek TBE, i have a remapped (Revo) s3 and still can pull away easily from him. granted its again heavier then a a3 fwd. I have also had play arounds with cars that are rated alot faster then mine but still catch them. granted the haldex transmission looses power ( i dont know how much to be honest) but the s3 still has alot of grunt too along with the torque. personally i cant see a remapped fwd being on the same level as a remapped s3 but each to their own experiences i guess.
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  35. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    Sorry Bill, I didn't mean that as it sounded, but simply as I saw it typing a one line reply is bad form (in my books) especially when someone doesn't know who you are.
    The posting part was not in anyway linked to you but as a response to 1animal1, and the fact that for some unknown reason your word is the final word in matters, and that I had just turned up as a newbie and made stuff up...so again in no way aimed at you.

    1animal1 I don't know why youÂ’d think you had a verbal battering, because at no point did I say anything personal (unlike what you said to me) or get off topic (only in reply), but carried on the discussion. You can disbelieve me all you want about the times, and if Glen or Rich happens to pop in then I'm sure they will help you sleep at night knowing I am not a liar or a clown as you make out.

    As I see it my first post was clear enough and did not say anything untrue that can't be proven......look how inflammatory you two were compared to me will you and when I mentioned facts you simply replied with nothing and jumped on me for something I said to the other.
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  36. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    I'll leave teh forum to you then Badger5 as it seems you know everyting and as such everybody else should just kiss your behind and not bother discussing things....that is why so many poeple left in the old days.
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  37. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    please can we stop the baiting/retaliating or the thread will be locked
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  38. simch
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    simch Active Member

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    Disagree all you like, fella, but you are wrong. Minimum to the rear on stock Gen 1 haldex is 5%.
    Yes a stock 225 running right is marginally faster than my golf, 2mph. The gearing is totally different, one is 6 speed and much shorter ratios. The higher power is offset by the longer gearing on the road, so the s3 is marginally quicker in most in gear situations.

    The bigger K04 and better intercooling tend to mean it held it's power longer too.

    My point is, from having both, is a full house k03s 18T ends up where a stock s3 begins, straight line performance wise.
    The larger turbo is the way to go.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
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  39. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    Hmm this is too argumentative for me, but i will give this a go.

    I will have no problems sticking a larger turbo on my FWD A4 when the hybrid expires as i have sticky tyres, traction control, and a steady right foot and a weight advantage of 150-200kg over a similar car with quattro, even the GFs TQS is nearly 1480kg where as mine is 1280kg.

    I can also confirm that on the strip at GTI inters the TQS launched and left me for dead for half of first gear, when after that i was gone. Now her car has 220 ish BHP and 4WD and mine 240 ish and 2WD, even with my apparent weight and power advantage the 4WD car was fastest off the line. Mine achieved low 15 1/4 with 6 sec 0-60 with hers high 16 iirc.

    In real world driving 4wd or not i can leave the TQS for dead once moving but off the line it's a different story, it all depends what you are looking for. The 2wd car will always feel faster/more fun than the less drama approach given by the 4wd car but the all in package has to go to the god that is Quattro
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  40. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 4, 2009]
    quattro for the win mate huh ;P LOL

    <tuffty/>
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  41. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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