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BEWARE of Fraud!!!!!

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by imported_christhick, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. imported_christhick
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    imported_christhick Guest

    [Dec 2, 2004]
    I tried to sell my A4 last month and after leaving my email address on the Autotrader advert I had several emails from people asking if they could by the car for the asking price and have it shipped overseas. Of course it was dodgy from the start and looking on the Autotrader web site confirmed that this is a common trick but I've searched this site and not fould a thread about it.

    I had my car up for £10,000 and was offered a bankers draft for £15,800. The buyer said he had some money owing to him from another source and asked if i would transfer the rest of the money to his shipping company. Of course the shipping company is fake.

    These people are as thick as sh*t coz I told them 3 times i would only except a cheque for the sale amount. Several emails later I even told the to F off but still they sent me the chq for £15,800.

    Please beware guys coz its a massive problem and it wont be long before one of these tw@ts grows a brain and pulls it offs.
    #1
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  3. Markey
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    Markey Active Member

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    [Dec 2, 2004]
    Think this was on the news the other day.

    And some people had fallen for it shame....
    #2
  4. imported_rosssummers
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    imported_rosssummers Guest

    [Dec 2, 2004]
    This has been around for a long long time and there are even sites out there dedicated to [censored] these people off by playing along with the whole thing until the vital point!
    #3
  5. CJ A4
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    CJ A4 Active Member

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    [Dec 2, 2004]
    Yeah it was on Watchdog this week some poor woman who was in debt and was selling her car to clear it, sold her car ended up 3 grand outta pocket and nothing can be done about it! I hate people that scam they are all F*@kers shoot them all thats what i say!
    #4
  6. pipewerkz
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    pipewerkz Member

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    [Dec 2, 2004]
    Haha. I agree with you all. At this computer shop I used to work for we used to get these emails all the time from people over sea's trying to buy 1000 computer systems, blah blah blah. Had some fun writing emails back and forth just messing with them. It is sad when people fall for it though.
    #5
  7. Jonc
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    Jonc Member

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  8. Rev-head
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    Rev-head Active Member

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    [Dec 3, 2004]
    Excellent websites /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
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  9. Tony7
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    Tony7 New Member

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    [Dec 4, 2004]
    Graeme's comments are priceless!!!
    #8
  10. fallmonk
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    fallmonk Turbo Sport

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    [Dec 4, 2004]
    i laughed my head of at it !
    how fecking stupid do they think people are !
    #9
  11. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 4, 2004]
    The primary reason that these fraudsters are able to suceed is because there is a fundamental lack of understanding in the world at large about cheques & banker's drafts, and what is meant by the terms "cleared" and "paid". This is because Banks (including the one I work for) do not properly make clear what is meant when they say a cheque is either "cleared" or "paid".

    Most of think that when a cheque has cleared, it means the money is safely in our account, and cannot be returned. WRONG!!!! I could write you all a long & detailed essay on cheque clearance, but I don't have to. Someone has kindly done it already. Have a read of this link from the website of the Financial Ombudsman Service

    http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/34/cheque-paid-34.htm
    #10
  12. fallmonk
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    fallmonk Turbo Sport

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    [Dec 5, 2004]
    Thats a terrible way to run things and scarry, esp the last one wheere the bank demanded money back for a"cashed" chq FIVE MONTHS later ! i never knew how badly run things where i will be VERY warry of taking a chq ever again !
    #11
  13. imported_christhick
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    imported_christhick Guest

    [Dec 6, 2004]
    The best way to ensure a cheque is cleared is to ask the bank whether funds can be safely withdrawn against the cheque in question.

    Antother idea is to bank the cheque and then withdraw all the money and put it on a horse. When the horse comes in you'll have made a tidy profit and can happily hand the original value of the cheque back to the bank when they ask for it. Unfortunately this idea has a certain level of RISK associated to it and I wouldn't recommend it!

    #12
  14. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 6, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Chriswt said:
    The best way to ensure a cheque is cleared is to ask the bank whether funds can be safely withdrawn against the cheque in question.





    [/ QUOTE ]


    No, that is not enough! Most banks' terms and conditions already allow you to withdraw against the proceeds of an uncleared cheque, but state that if the cheque later comes back unpaid, your account will be debited. It's nothing to do with cleared or uncleared. Those terms are meaningless in the context of whther your money is safe. What you have to do is make sure the cheque has been paid. The only way to provide yourself with some measure of protection through your own bank is to say to them.

    "I deposited this cheque xx days ago, and I need to know whether the drawer's bank has paid it. The cheque was given to me by the buyer of my car, and depending on the answer you give me, it is my intention to release the car to the buyer. If you tell me my money is safe, and the cheque then bounces after I have released the car, I will hold the bank liable for my loss"

    This does two things. It makes clear to your bank that you are asking if the cheque has been paid, not cleared, and it puts the Bank on notice that you may act to your detriment (i.e. let the car go) in reliance on the information they give you. It is called the doctrine of promissory estoppel. Ask the question in those terms, and if the bank says go ahead and release the car, and the cheque bounces, your bank is then liable to you for the loss you have incurred by releasing the car. It is "estopped", (i.e. prevented) from debiting your account with the proceeds of the bounced cheque.


    #13
  15. imported_christhick
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    imported_christhick Guest

    [Dec 7, 2004]
    It wasn't me who said you should ask the bank whether funds can be withdrawn against the cheque. It was Autotraders Web site offering advice.

    Surely when you ask this you are confirming that the funds that the cheque was written agaisnt have now reached your bank. In any case if you made sufficient checks with you bank and they still turned around and said they want the money back then you'd have a good case.

    A lot of people that have had this happen to them have got there money back from the bank just the same as if there debit card was stolen.

    This problem has nothing to do with the to$$3rs that send the cheques but everything to do with the banks who clear the money. If they didn't clear it then the scam would die immediately.

    Anyone want to know how to get all your xmas presents before the 25th for January sale prices!! I heard the tip on Radio 2
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  16. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 8, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Chriswt said:
    It wasn't me who said you should ask the bank whether funds can be withdrawn against the cheque. It was Autotraders Web site offering advice.

    Surely when you ask this you are confirming that the funds that the cheque was written against have now reached your bank.

    This problem has nothing to do with the to$$3rs that send the cheques but everything to do with the banks who clear the money. If they didn't clear it then the scam would die immediately.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Have it your way, Chriswt. After all, I've only worked in banking for 20 years.

    To everyone else, if you follow the advice I've posted up, the risk of you becoming a victim of cheque fraud will be lessened, and if it does still go wrong, then at least you'll have given yourself a degree of protection from your Bank.
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  17. imported_christhick
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    imported_christhick Guest

    [Dec 9, 2004]
    jdp1962,

    I understand what your saying but it wasn''t me who said thi, it was AUTOTRADER!!!

    If you want to lessen the risk do what i did and DON'T bank the cheque.

    What I was trying to point out was that the fault lies with the banks as much as it does the fraudsters and that oneday there will hopefully be a test case in the courts that will force the banks into acting rather than ripping of its customers.
    #16
  18. QuantumJohn
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    QuantumJohn Member

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    [Dec 9, 2004]
    JonC - thanks for posting those links. I have just spent the last 20 minutes laughing very hard at some of the replies.
    Thanks very much to those that started this thread and all the information in the replies. I currently have a car for sale, advertised on several websites and have had loads of these scam e-mails. I am considering on how best to waste some of their time but one of the points on the 419eater site is very prevalant, which occurs before you even receive a cheque, let alone bank it.

    "...Please remember that these people are CRIMINALS and should be treated as such.
    Under no circumstances must you enter into any communications with these people unless you feel you are adequately prepared to deal with them.
    Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES give them ANY real private information about yourself. These guys may appear dumb and clueless, but I suspect it wouldn't be so funny if you were to come face-to-face with one of them, although I'll be the first to admit the chances of this happening are astronomical..."

    Wise words and it means that I will not be offering my address for them to send me a cheque in the first place.

    John
    #17

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