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Best two tyres on the front or rear??

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Ads, Jul 15, 2010.

  1. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 16, 2010]
    Well that's as maybe. But I stick to the point that if your 'loose' the front or back end of the car when you are driving on the public roads you are not driving to suit the conditions.
    #41
  2. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jul 16, 2010]
    Nope, can't agree with that one. It happens, sometimes through no fault of your own.

    Happened to me many years ago.... driving down a hill (not fast) on a wet day, some geezer decided to pull out of a side road in front of me, I slammed on the breaks and ended up sliding towards him sideways.
    #42
  3. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 16, 2010]
    That's not really what I was getting at. In that case it would probably not matter what tyres you had, good or bad. But it that sort of situation you would normally slide in an approxiamately straight line as none of the tyres have any grip. What I was getting at is drivers who drives too fast for the conditions through corners etc and loose the car at one end or the other.

    The type you hear about on the radio etc. A car left the road and went into a ditch or hit a tree or something. No other car was involved!!

    The best answer is to have good tyres both front and rear. The exact depth of the tread is not that important unless its raining very hard when any reasonably driver would slow down anyway.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
    #43
  4. c_w
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    c_w Active Member

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    [Jul 17, 2010]
    To answer the OP, the "best" tyres go on the rear purely because understeer is easier to control than oversteer. Got nothing to do with which wheels are driven or steered.
    #44
  5. xnox202
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    xnox202 Member

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    [Jul 17, 2010]
    I agree. Controlling understeer is much more easier than controlling oversteer. Heck, not everyone knows how to fully control a car unless experienced on the track and etc. With these reasons, now you should know why most low-cost cars are created with front wheel drivetrain.

    You can't say or really prepare when something happens while you're driving on the road. The common reaction when we lose control is to brake. Now, I bet most drivers when entering a curve at X speed, to slow down.. we release the throttle and brake. This gives the load to the front, providing traction to the front wheels. When its too much, this causes understeer but as you slow down, it's easier to recover than oversteer.

    With FF cars, you know it's not easy to oversteer unless proper weight transfer is initiated and basically doing a controlled oversteer. You'll know the rear will lift and causes it to happen but that's just not gonna happen on normal driving conditions unless you're a moron and drive recklessly on corners. But still, it takes a few maneuvers to create an oversteer with our rather shortbased rear-end. It will just eventually be an understeer in most cases I supposed. Unless you care about curve apex, lifting off the throttle and brake at such an angle, then that'll result in oversteer.

    It's important to know even when we can control these understeer/oversteer conditions, our tyres has just enough grip for everyday driving. No one uses track tyres daily. Simplest solution is to drive responsibly and stop acting like the public roads are the tracks.

    With proper braking/throttling input, I'd say better front tyres than the rear will do the job. You WILL need front tyre grips for steering input. If you haven't check out proper D1 FF Drifting videos, there's a reason why they have bigger tyres on the front than the back.
    #45
  6. 964kevin
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    964kevin Member

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    If you go to somewhere like Costco for a new set of Michelins, they will only put new ones on the rear. I agree, the vast majority of people on the roads simply could not hold oversteer on a FWD car, therefore it's simply safer to put best/new on the rear.
    If you think that the slippery cheapo ones on the front will cause problems with steering and traction, then you'll adjust your style accordingly, won't you. But for that moment when it all goes horribly wrong when the cheapo ones are on the rear, you';ll not be setup to catch it, because your confidence from the better front tyres will be missleading you.

    Kevin,

    owner of FWD and RWD,
    #46
  7. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    The correct answer is to have good tyres on all four wheels. Whether the front tyres are new and have 8mm of thread and the rear tyres are worn and have only 4mm of thread is not that important unless you try silly things in the rain.

    Personally I would never fit cheap tyres to my A3. The two I have just changed were from new and have been replaced with Dunlop SP Sport Maxx. These seem to give excellent grip in the wet and are quiet and comfortable at all times. In over 40 years of driving the only time I have experienced oversteer is when a drove had a rear-wheel drive Triumph Dolomite back in 1973. All my other cars have been front wheel drive and I have never any problem with oversteer.
    #47
  8. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    you must be a very sedate driver then :ermm:.
    #48
  9. xnox202
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    xnox202 Member

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    It's more like an insurance rather than getting your car totalled in the long run. It's not being sedate. I mean, why skimp when you have the cash to get all four tyres new? With that you don't have to worry about which better tyres go to which and if it isn't, I will stay with my opinion that front tyres needs better grip than rear tyres.
    #49
  10. palexr
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    palexr Member

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    Surely the point is that if you have two **** tyres you know you are compromising and you should alter your driving style accordingly. I wouldn't want to put myself in a position where I might experience severe understeer or snap oversteer if I knew 50% of my tyres were shyte. Apart from the fatuous "oh but you never know when that might happen" type arguments, an honest answer would probably say that 90% of either of those two can be avoided by driving a wee bit slower in those circumstances?
    #50
  11. xnox202
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    xnox202 Member

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    So maybe there's only few of us who actually drives conservatively and think conservatively about the grip of the tyres when it gets old. See, it's like I made my point that unless driving like a total moron on public roads with the OP's question raises this "what if" statements or if not yet, arguments.
    #51
  12. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    I don't think my wife would agree with that statement. A couple of weeks ago I was driving at around 120-130mph for quite some time on the German Autobahns and had my cruise control set at 95mph for several hours on the French Autoroutes. My normal UK motorway speed is around 80-90mph as well as driving as quick as conditions etc allow on other roads.

    If driving sedately means driving carefully and in accordance with the road, weather and traffic conditions then I drive sedately. I have never 'lost' my car or driven it off the road and the only accidents I have been involved have been where others have driven into the back of me whilst I was stopped at traffic lights or parked.
    #52
  13. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    thats all good but driving fast in a straight line and round the twisties is totally different ball game:yes:
    #53
  14. antmax7
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    antmax7 Member

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    this thread is quality!
    new tyres MUST go on the rear of any car/van/truck
    common sense really anyone that thinks correcting over steer is easier than correcting understeer is talking ********!
    best example of this is snow RWD cars are awful in snow and hard to control due the over steer 99% of drivers of RWD cars don't even attempt to drive there cars after a decent amount of snow
    you tried getting up a hill in 3inch of fresh snow in a RWD car? have FUN!
    but in a FWD car you have MUCH more control over where the car is going
    i have had both RWD and FWD vehicles and FWD is much easier to correct when it goes tit's up
    you have to be driving like a complete and utter tit to loose a fwd car due to over steer
    just my thoughts on this ridiculous argument!
    #54
  15. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    Yes and driving TOO fast through the twisties is how people manage to loose it and end up in the ditch. I'm quite capeable of driving quickly on country roads and lanes but again in accordance with the road, weather conditions and traffic with loosing the car in any way.
    #55
  16. Gti Jazz Blue
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    Gti Jazz Blue Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    I will chip in at this point.

    Having done a 360 on the A32 in a previous car where I had made the mistake of putting the decent new tyres on the front, and swapped the cheap tyres that the Mazda dealer had fitted on the rear.

    I would always put the cheap ones on the front, however I have never bought cheap tyres since that experiance.

    So my vote is the cheap ones on the front and make sure whilst they are on the car that you drive within their limits :yes:

    There endeth todays lesson - grasshopper :jester:

    Paul
    #56
  17. xnox202
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    xnox202 Member

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    [​IMG]
    #57
  18. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jul 18, 2010]
    Well well well, what a thread this turned in to!! :lmfao:

    And for those who are banging on about not buying cheapo tyres... I KNOW NOW (and if i'm honest I knew better at the time of buying but saving a quick buck turned my head).
    But it's done, and until I take them back to the nice and kind guy at wheel shop so he can swap them for some proper branded and NOT CHEAPO tyres (with me just paying the difference) I just want to have them at the end of the car which is "best".
    And the "best" end, from reading this thread and millions of other bits of info all over the net and applying some common sense (at last), seems to be the front end of my car.

    But thanks guys, it's been an experience! :thumbsup:

    PS: What about if I put the cheapo tyres on the right hand side front and rear... or the left hand side front and rear??? :happy:
    PPS: Or one on the front right and one on the rear left???? :undwech:
    #58
  19. crunchie
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    crunchie Active Member

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    when i bought my last impreza there were 4 brand new F**kens on it so i left them a couple of weeks to see how they were. **** was the answer to they got binned for some Michelin PS2's. Dont know why anyone would scrimp on tyres for a performance car. Id rather buy a car with 4 bald tyres and bargain on the price than have 4 new tyres that are **** that your going to have to replace anyway!
    #59
  20. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    Do you remember which Falkens they were?? FK452 I've heard are very good.
    #60
  21. crunchie
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    crunchie Active Member

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    they were 912's. ive never had 452's but im not going to risk it.

    http://www.tyretest.com/ is usually a goodish guide. looking for wet results to be less than 2. (1 being the best, 6 being the worst) 452's score 2.3 in the wet, PS2's score 1.8, enough said!
    912's are 2.5 so the 454's ate a wee bit better.
    #61
  22. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    0.5.... is that a lot of difference??
    #62
  23. crunchie
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    crunchie Active Member

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    to me its worth paying the extra for. i dont just go by what they say but if i go through all the tyres ive had and compare them to their results they are never far out. guess it all comes down to £ at the end of the day.
    #63
  24. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    Well I can comprehensively say that Autogrip F107 are a pile of *****!
    And if they were on that "1 being the best and 6 being the worst" tyre test they would score 125.
    #64
  25. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    As mentioned above I went on the mother of all drives on the weekend (with Falken 452s on ) 200 mile round trip with 110 miles off that flat out/ v hard cornering.
    An S3 with PS2s and a super nimble Corsa VXR also on PS2s didnt have any extra noticeable edge over me in the bends- the nature of the roads meant you needed grit and skill to push your motor to the limit. I was pushing pretty hard , got some mild understeer and four wheel drifts at under high speed cornering 50- 90 mph as well v hard braking from over 120 mph, and I can say I am impressed with them for the money. This was in damp conditions for about half of the time as well and with standard suspension.

    They provided good steering feedback, very good grip in wet and dry ( traction wasnt much of an issue obv) and good progression from grip to slip. I wouldnt rule them out for the money, the extra dosh for PS2s or other would be well spent for drivers who really push their cars but may be not for your average person.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
    #65
  26. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    What tyres are you running???
    Sorry, did you already mention that?
    #66
  27. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    sorry totally forgot to mention it-- FK452s !
    #67
  28. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    Ahhh.
    To be fair, I've heard nothing but good stuff about them. Even the guy in the wheel shop reluctantly agreed they are pretty good.
    #68
  29. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    Living in London I doubt you will need anything better then those tbh
    #69
  30. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    £84 fitted/balanced/etc via blackcircles, or £67 delivered from camskill. Tempting.


    Hmmmm... this is (could be) deja vu!!
    #70
  31. antmax7
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    antmax7 Member

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    not being funny but the best tyre on the market pilot sport 3's are only £104 delivered from camskill they will outlast the falkens easily prob twice over so for the extra £60 they are a steal!
    miles better tyre all round than the falkens anyone who questions this must be mad
    #71
  32. crunchie
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    crunchie Active Member

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    dont get me wrong, i only run continental sport contact 3's on the A3 but its hardly a pure driving machine. i feel the extra for the michelins is unjustified.
    #72
  33. crunchie
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    crunchie Active Member

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    [Jul 19, 2010]

    have you run the new PS3's? i heard they are even better than the 2's. cheaper too by the looks of things!
    #73
  34. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    Certainly £84 each is a good price for a tyre for the A3. I have just had two 225/45xZR17 Dunlop SP Sport Maxx tyres fitted to my A3. I chose that particular tyre to match those fitted at the factory and I was only changing two at this stage. The Dunlops cost me £120 each, fitted including new valves and balancing.
    #74
  35. Harrelson
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    Harrelson Member

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    [Jul 19, 2010]
    Slightly off topic but my brother who has an identical car to mine put new continental sport contact 3's and i took his car for a test drive. It felt like a quattro in the hairpins, no understeer whatsoever and they were really quiet. (btw his car came from the factory 2 months before mine at the same dealer with pirelli p zero's)

    Mine came with hankooks? from the factory and they do understeer like a fridge on rollerblades and have a drone at motorway speeds. Did my dealer swap my pirelli p zero for some cheap Korean ones?
    #75
  36. crunchie
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    crunchie Active Member

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    [Jul 20, 2010]
    i must admit i thought Audi only used Michelin, Continental, Pirelli & Bridgestone.
    #76

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