1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Best bang for my bucks on 2.5tdi sport.

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by robotplant, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jan 26, 2013]
    Just completed some mods on my 2.5tdi Sport, all done for not a lot of money.

    First mod was to try some Diesel Rhino additive. As was recommend by tbs on this forum. Not run it for very long but I have noticed quite a difference in performance, starting quicker in the cold snap and runs quieter. Need to do a longer term test to see if the mpg improves.

    Blanked off the egr today and again noticed a slight improvement in pick up. I could see a bit of soot around the egr so no doubt it wanted cleaning, but I'd rather run the engine with out one.

    Fitted a RS4 rear anti roll bar. Real big difference in the handling, feels like a different car on the corners, well pleased I went for it.

    Changed the wiper arms for the newer style b7 airo blades. First test to try the above mods was when it was raining and was impressed how quiet and clear the blades performed.

    Just feel like I have breathed a new lease of life out of the B6 and well pleased with the results.With having a remap as well I'm really not bothered about a b7 3.0tdi now anymore.
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Dec 27, 2014]

  3. stu_m
    Offline

    stu_m Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    36
  4. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jan 26, 2013]
    Did intend to do a decat today, the rarb was not as easy to change as it should of been, some rusted up bolts to contend with..needed the help of my oxy torch! Got the remap though.

    p.s. just realized. If I decat the exhaust will my remap need tweaking?
    #3
  5. stu_m
    Offline

    stu_m Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    36
    [Jan 26, 2013]
    if its a custom map then it would be best to get it tweaked
    #4
  6. AlexGSi2000
    Offline

    AlexGSi2000 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,323
    Likes Received:
    163
    [Jan 26, 2013]
    Wouldnt worry about adjusting the map over a de-cat. It will just allow the turbo to spool a little quicker - the ecu will calculate this anyway.

    If you want more power from the engine, your next steps would be to change the injector nozzles (Bosio PowerPlus 683 / Race 683) and have the turbo rebuilt to a hybrid spec.
    #5
  7. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jan 26, 2013]
    I had my map from Shark Performance and have been pleased with it. I don't suppose I will get a big difference with a decat, but I'm sure it will be worth doing. Anyone got any photos of a 2.5tdi been decatted??

    I won't be going down the route of bigger turbo and injectors..did contemplate it though. I'm happy enough with the performance as it is, would be nice to eeke out just a bit bit more with the decat.
    #6
  8. carl-1968
    Offline

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    26
    [Jan 26, 2013]
    Serious modding needs serious money but I think you are doing ok. Be interesting to see what it can do on a dyno
    #7
  9. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jan 26, 2013]
    #8
  10. BahnStormer77
    Offline

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    19
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    just remaps: most people are getting 190-200 on an economy remap, 205-220 on a fast road (neutral on the economy) and 220-240bhp on the more aggressive maps... but by then, we're talking 375lb/ft torque, so start budgetting on gear boxes and clutches soon....
    #9
  11. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    My map is supposed to be pushing out 210hp /320lbs, though you never know quite were it's at till you dyno the car!
    #10
  12. carl-1968
    Offline

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    26
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    Heres mine from last year with nos on. Have also water methanol but needs tweeking, now running an RS4 clutch with Black Diamond stage 3 cover and bearing so holds up ok, I found the 6 paddle plate too much for normal daily driving as it was either on or off!

    Attached Files:

    #11
    DieselJake likes this.
  13. carl-1968
    Offline

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    26
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    Oops sorry thats without. This is with, doh!

    Attached Files:

    #12
    DieselJake likes this.
  14. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    Must say I was impressed with the first graph , second graph... look out! That car will see off most cars I'm sure.

    What's the full spec and care to mention how much it cost you to mod.
    #13
  15. adamss24
    Offline

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,531
    Likes Received:
    197
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    Looking at your avatar it looks like the car is FWD being a facelift model, is that so ? 300Bhp is what i got of mine with large nozzles, GTB2260vk hybrid turbo and remap, standard fuel though no steroids ! However the torque is capped at 500Nm, mine is about 700Nm, no issues with the clutch yet but i don't drive it like a lunatic and never floored it hate ! Flywheel is rumbling a bit if i step on it but no slip yet !
    Do you have any more details on turbo, fueling and any breathing mods ? Ported heads, stronger rods and lower compression ?
    #14
  16. carl-1968
    Offline

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    26
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    I have a build thread on Audizine. This link should be ok.
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=499581
    Carl's A4 B7 22.7 Tdi S Line Saloon from the begining to date

    As for technical specs the injectors are standard as are the engine internals. It has more frequent servicing and any issues are looked at straight away. Most of the other stuff is in the build thread but any questions are welcome and i'll do my best to answer. There are a few vlds on youtube of it on the dragstrip (14.8) for the quarter mile can post a link if you are interested
    Cheers
    Carl
    #15
  17. carl-1968
    Offline

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    26
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    As for cost?, its a money pitt but I dont
    Drink
    Gamble
    Smoke
    But I do
    Race
    Dragstrip
    Carshows and clubmeets
    Including buying the car id say about 13-14k.
    The race car is about 6k atm and just being refurbished :)
    #16
  18. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    Good for you mate I'm sure it's worth every penny. I've known people to drink, smoke and gamble that sort of money in one night!:yes:

    Just reading your spec at the moment, I didn't know there was a b7 a4 2.7tdi, thought the 2.7 was only in the a5.
    #17
  19. carl-1968
    Offline

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    26
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    There are not many about in the A4 guise, think I have seen 2 others since buying it.
    #18
  20. quattrojames
    Offline

    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    13,940
    Likes Received:
    493
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    And the award for Best Thread Hijack goes to ...... lol
    #19
  21. carl-1968
    Offline

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    26
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    That looks like me lol, sorry :rolleyes:
    #20
  22. BahnStormer77
    Offline

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    19
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    nice graphs, but spending an extra 10k doesn't sound like bang for buck...

    I would have said RS4 RARB and a mild remap are the best performance mods for the money (assuming Sport suspension already).... and remaps can be deceptive, if they're good, they can actually smooth out the torque curve, so car can feel smoother and come people interpret this as slower :) Just stick with a 200hp fast-economy remap, most of are cars are around 10yrs old, so unless you fancy buying new clutches, etc it's not a great idea.

    My favourite mod, although NOT value for money is the R8 leather FBMFSW.... let's face it - on the topic of a decent steering wheel: there's nothing else that you use as consistently when driving the car, so it might as well be a nice one :)

    [​IMG]
    #21
  23. adamss24
    Offline

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,531
    Likes Received:
    197
    [Jan 27, 2013]
    My fave recipe for power in a v6 2.5 tdi will be: GTB2260vk hybrid from Darkside developments, Bosio race 683 nozzles, custom remap, straight trough exhaust + custom adapter will net you 300bhp for well under £2.5k !
    turbo £750
    nozzles £400
    pop testing £200
    remap £500
    exhaust £300
    adapter flanges £100
    gaskets + nuts/bolts £100

    If i were to spend 10k on a car then i would go for an rs4 b5, loads of Bhp in a chassis that can take the power !!!
    #22
  24. carl-1968
    Offline

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    26
    [Jan 28, 2013]
    The car cost £8700 so figure 5k worth of mods, with mid 30's in town and 50mpg on a run cannot see any Rs cars matching that, the whole point is that its unique and not to take anything away from an Rs, mine is a sleeper with teeth when required....;)
    #23
  25. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jan 28, 2013]
    The thread was intended as a "best bang for your buck" and though what I meant the thread to be though not that clear is cheapish mods for performance. I'm glad though that it has drifted off into what's possible with the v6 through Carl's and Chris's input. Though I generally have my sensible head on I still get the urge to want to make that unique performance car...I love my motors!

    Having delved into performance ideas for the v6 I ended up reading fjtwelves 7 year long saga with his A6 (yes it took me a long time to read), what a story. I could never been in a position to ride that one out and fair play to Martin for his dogged perseverance. I would of binned the whole thing early on in it's development as I need a car to be reliable for every day needs. What I'm hoping now is that guys like Carl and Chris have nailed there mods to be reliable as an every day car needs to be.

    £2500 for ultra performance sounds very tempting indeed £5000 is too much for my 10 year old ake and I'm not that far off for selling and changing to a 3.0tdi with map. As the thread has gone off topic some what perhaps it would be best if I was to resurrect Martins thread and try to get a more definitive idea at what's the best cost/power reliability mod to have for the V6.

    Thanks for the input.

    John
    #24
  26. adamss24
    Offline

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,531
    Likes Received:
    197
    [Jan 28, 2013]
    I might be getting rid of Martin's a6 soon, it just not getting used often enough ! All the hard work has been done already...
    Spec: fully rebuilt engine with ported heads, new Icconel valves, lower CR, alloy front mounted intercooler from early allroad tdi, new viscous fan, new hybrid VP44 pump (3 piston plunger and 11mm head), new lift pump, new MAF, boost sensor, new oil pump and chain, full cambelt kit + all ancilaries, new viscous fan, GTB2260vk hybrid, custom braided hoses/flanges and downpipe, full stainless steel 3" exhaust from turbo with 2 silencers- no drone from it just nice burble, Race 683 nozzles (+80% flow), full Eibach pro spring kit and heavy duty sports genuine shock absorbers, rs6 antiroll bars, new suspension on the front, 20"x 8.5 audi s8 d2 alloys (225/30/20 tyres) or fat5 alloys, bigger brakes all round with groved & drilled discs up front, passat w8/ audi s6 brakes on the back with uprated pagid pads, front strut braces and much, much more !
    Full leather interior,ESP/ABS/traction control, full black leather interior, very clean inside and out !
    It's very, very fast indeed and so easy to drive at the same time ! True sleeper...
    Need a new map to take into advantage the larger turbo and to limit the torque, you don't want any more than that !
    #25
  27. adamss24
    Offline

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,531
    Likes Received:
    197
    [Jan 28, 2013]
    And by the way, it still returns 32Mpg no matter how hard you drive it !
    #26
  28. carl-1968
    Offline

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    26
    [Jan 28, 2013]
    Now that's impressive!, I have considered a 2nd fuel pump to boost the supply but for now I think its enough on the engine mods, just a few tweeks to sort out and then turn my attention to the instrumentation and interior, would like leather if I could find it at the right price :)
    #27
  29. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jan 28, 2013]
    "Spec: fully rebuilt engine with ported heads, new Icconel valves, lower CR, alloy front mounted intercooler from early allroad tdi, new viscous fan, new hybrid VP44 pump (3 piston plunger and 11mm head), new lift pump, new MAF, boost sensor, new oil pump and chain, full cambelt kit + all ancilaries, new viscous fan, GTB2260vk hybrid, custom braided hoses/flanges and downpipe, full stainless steel 3" exhaust from turbo with 2 silencers- no drone from it just nice burble, Race 683 nozzles (+80% flow), full Eibach pro spring kit and heavy duty sports genuine shock absorbers, rs6 antiroll bars, new suspension on the front, 20"x 8.5 audi s8 d2 alloys (225/30/20 tyres) or fat5 alloys, bigger brakes all round with groved & drilled discs up front, passat w8/ audi s6 brakes on the back with uprated pagid pads, front strut braces and much, much more !
    Full leather interior,ESP/ABS/traction control, full black leather interior, very clean inside and out !
    It's very, very fast indeed and so easy to drive at the same time ! True sleeper...
    Need a new map to take into advantage the larger turbo and to limit the torque, you don't want any more than that ! "

    Hi Chris,

    I see you've put the car together again. That'a a decent spec, hows it running now?. Have you sorted the problem with the smokey low rev range and stopped the engine idle judder?

    Has the car still got the Celtic map? From my understanding of the car it suffered from having a bad map, uncalibrated injector nozzles and a engine not put together well from the off.

    Big question how much you asking for it? Tried to p.m. you but you mail box is choker block.

    John
    #28
  30. adamss24
    Offline

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,531
    Likes Received:
    197
    [Jan 28, 2013]
    I had a new ECU and a standard map modified from scratch by one of my mates, it still needs a little work as it's not easy to calibrate injection quantity on idle due to the settings being built in the pump's control unit, however it's miles smoother than what it was before and runs some serious power ! The Celtic Tuning map was encripted and would not let me write on the ECU unless flashed on the bench + it wasn't the best map i've seen... With ever changing hardware and different goals in mind i had no choice but to ditch the CT map and go with another map and tweak it as i go along. So far so good, no limp mode whatsoever and smoke is minimal before the turbo comes on boost... Don't know about my inbox but i got a few pm's today...
    The engine has been properly rebuilt with new cylinder heads(cams/valves/rockers,etc.), no more issues with it, just got too many cars at one time and some need some TLC so i could sell on...As for price, you need to make me an offer, parts owe me over 4.5k excluding the car and the labor ! I know that i would never get that back, it was just an ambition to continue Martin's project and to get it running as well as it could...
    #29
  31. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Mar 2, 2013]
    Just to update this thread I've finally finished my "best bang for my buck" mods. The final mod was to knock the iners out of the cat boxes. Must say she has improved nicely with a better pick up with the turbo kicking in a bit earlier.Car is far better all round with the very simple and cost effective mods, must of only spend about £300 and have transformed the car very nicely.

    These are the mods done:
    RS4 arb.
    Egr blanked off.
    Diesel Rhino fuel additive.
    Decatted.
    B7 wiper arms/blades.
    .

    My 2.5tdi quattro with having a map done a couple of years back has really come to life now runs cleaner, handles better and I'm getting 37mpg on the last count (before decatting), so all good for cheap mods.

    John
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
    #30
  32. BahnStormer77
    Offline

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    19
    [Mar 3, 2013]
    210bhp likely to be around 330-340lb/ft, still okay if you let the clutch out all the way before putting your foot down. Just don't try to drive it fast and smoothly.
    #31
  33. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Mar 3, 2013]
    Not sure what you mean Bahnstormer?? , the car will be around the 210hp and not had any clutch slip yet!
    #32
  34. Az
    Offline

    Az Hard slammed!

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    34
    [Mar 4, 2013]
    Do you not get loads of black sooty smoke what with it being remapped and now de-catted?
    #33
  35. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Mar 5, 2013]
    No Az, the cars running cleaner with a decat and the egr blanked off, the car can now run freer without been choked on it's own exhaust fumes plus without the restricted exhaust.
    #34
  36. adamss24
    Offline

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,531
    Likes Received:
    197
    [Mar 16, 2013]
    How was the drive back home John ? Back in love with the v6 ?
    #35
  37. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Mar 17, 2013]
    Hi Chris,

    Just arrived home this afternoon and boy did I enjoy the trip home. The cars just a joy to drive and there is a clear difference in the performance and drivability of the car since you worked your magic. The engine now has that added edge to it now, got me thinking on the way home as to what it would be like with that hybrid turbo and straight through exhaust, if and when the turbo needs attention I will definitely consider you building me one.

    I was able to cure the wheel vibration I had at 75mph and above. You were correct in identifying the rear wheels as the culprit, I took the wheels off this morning only to find a caked layer of clay mud stuck on the inside of both rear wheels. Cleaned them out and no more vibration.:yes: Thanks very much for sorting the n75 turbo issue I had and giving the car your once over, you really know your v6's.

    Got to say to other members "best bang for my buck" would also be taking my car to meet Chris (adamss24).

    John
    #36
  38. 666markyboy
    Offline

    666markyboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,131
    Likes Received:
    34
    [Mar 17, 2013]
    What are the MOT implications of decatting a diesel ??? was thinking of doing it on my 1.9 Tdi but if it means failing MOT's then it's a no go for me
    #37
  39. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Mar 17, 2013]
    You don't need to worry about the MOT with decatting. I left my v6 a little too long running on the useless egr system and cats which were helping restrict the engine breath and run through it's cycle correctly. Finally got round to sorting the car and it's never run cleaner, hardly any hint of smoke and that's with a remap.

    John
    #38
  40. robotplant
    Offline

    robotplant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Apr 1, 2013]
    Continuing on the same vein and trying to keep the costs down I've done my own tail pipe mods. Bought some 3.5" tail pipes and just welded the tips and cut through with some trim to finish, not an RS4 but I prefer it to the snoop dog tips. I wish I gone for the 4" now may well change if I fancy.

    Bought some S4 blades as well which does improve the look and fiitted my summer tyres in the hope that the weather may improve. Would appreciate members thoughts on whether I should add wheel spacers to fill the arches better, any ideas??

    John.

    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
    #39
  41. adamss24
    Offline

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,531
    Likes Received:
    197
    [Apr 2, 2013]
    Needs bigger tips mate and whilst at it get a Votex rear valance as it's compliments the rear properly ! Car looks nice on the summer wheels and the door blades are ace ! Well done ...
    #40

Share This Page