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Bedding In (Running In) A New Engine

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by Bristle Hound, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. Bristle Hound
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    Bristle Hound A Dog Is For Life, Not Just For Christmas

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    [Aug 10, 2014]
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  3. The Challinor
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    The Challinor Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    Got it, new car = drive it like you stole it.

    Interesting note on the changing of oil after 200 miles, wonder how many people do this and what Audi say about it?
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  4. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    OIL is the LIFE BLOOD of any internal (and /or external) combustion engine so make sure to change both filter and oil EVERY 12-months irrespective of mileage...

    And yes, BLUEY's was changed at 250-miles and next month, with ZERO oil use between changes :icon_thumright:, her oil and filter will be changed again for the 4th time at approx 9000-miles.
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  5. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    This always breaks down into two schools of thought.

    The first runs the engine in carefully,without excessive rpms and on low boost(if turbo or supercharged),and the other as said,drives it like it's been stolen.

    I've always been advised by engine builders to take the first course.....low boost,build up the rpm gradually over 1000 miles,then change the oil(and if rebuilt,see what's in the oil).

    Seems to have worked so far,and both from new,and after the rebuild,the engine uses relatively little oil,and power doesn't seem to be an issue either.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
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  6. a3_phil
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    a3_phil Active Member

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    Given that his advice is from the perspective of bike engines, how relevant is it to forced inductino engines? Surely adding boost to the equation is going to significantly change the equation?
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  7. steeve
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    steeve Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    I'll stick to what the people that made it said, those who are trying to make sure they don't get warranty claims'. I've always done this on all my new cars and motorcycles and never had any issues with oil consumption. I'm planning on an oil and filter change at 1,000 miles.

    A lot depends on the design of the engine and the clearances as well as more importantly for bore wear the honing pattern.
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  8. Messi_alli
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    Messi_alli Member

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    this is always a point of debate. Some people say that the engines are factory broken. Why then would the Manufacturer suggest a break in period. I prefer to be patient as well even though its frustrating when the car is brand new and you want to hammer it.
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  9. Bristle Hound
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    Bristle Hound A Dog Is For Life, Not Just For Christmas

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    I think a lot of people forget how your car is treated before you actually get it

    Dont forget, in the case of Audi's. From factory to compound. Compound to transporter. Transporter to ship. Ship to compound. Compound to transporter. Trans porter to Dealers. Dealers PDI test drive

    How carefully do you think its driven in each stage?
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  10. jasonc
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    jasonc Active Member

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    My understanding was that the cars leave the factory in a special "delivery" mode that prevents them being thrashed. "Normal" mode is only set at the dealer.
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  11. Bristle Hound
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    Bristle Hound A Dog Is For Life, Not Just For Christmas

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    Didn't know that. Nice to hear too
    Cheers :)
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  12. cemerson
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    cemerson Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    Yeh, it's only taken out of transport/delivery mode during the PDI at the dealers (included as part of the software update I believe). It does other things like disable the alarm during transit as well.
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  13. steeve
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    steeve Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 11, 2014]
    These are not great distances or on public roads, they are not able to achieve high speeds or at great load. So any damage is not going to be significant. Apart from the fact the engines will be run up to max revs on the dyno at the engine plant.

    Its still significant that those that designed it and make it and know it far better than ANYONE ELSE recommend a breaking in period. That's good enough for me until some one comes along that knows better. Which lets face it is unlikely.

    But as I keep mentioning if it's your car and you want to thrash if from day one that's your choice.

    As I've mentioned before I worked for a vehicle and major engine manufacturer for almost forty years. Our engines being used in various industrial and on road applications were made to run flat out from day one. The engines are designed and manufactured in a special way to do that, a car engine isn't, but it could be, but would not be so efficient or have the longevity.
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  14. Messi_alli
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    Messi_alli Member

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  15. TFSI
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    TFSI Born to Fish

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    [Aug 18, 2014]
    Any engine is designed and engineered to run loaded, not off load and idle, dog the ******** off em from day 1 and reap the benefits :uk: :think:
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  16. A3_Rider
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    A3_Rider Active Member

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    [Aug 18, 2014]
    I was test driving an S3 with 9 miles on the clock, seemed way too new to push it hard. I usually allow the first 1,000 miles before driving it in a less lighter way
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  17. Bristle Hound
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    Bristle Hound A Dog Is For Life, Not Just For Christmas

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    [Aug 18, 2014]
    ^ +1 :hi:
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  18. RAPS3
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    RAPS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 19, 2014]
    Whilst I haven't drive mine like it was stolen. I'd say I haven't done the '1000 miles' no full load etc

    I've just driven it as I would normally -day to day pottering and giving it beans when I feel like it - slip roads the odd country road etc

    I've treat every new car the same without issue.

    I can understand both trains if thought but I prefer to play it in the middle. The odd blast - mixed with day to day driving.
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  19. tankclark
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    tankclark Member

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    [Aug 19, 2014]
    I'm in two minds on the thrash/nurse debate, some say modern materials used in engines is a lot more robust than in the past. I tend to take it easy for 500 odd miles then crank it up.
    One thing I've always sworn by is changing oil at about 1000 miles from new to get rid of any swarve. But again BMW don't recommend a service for new cars until the in car service Indictator says so, in my case with the M135i the first service and change of oil is said to be needed at 14,000! And I drive it like I stole it
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  20. P40ULW
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    P40ULW single and skint? how? oh cars!!! Regional Rep

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    [Aug 19, 2014]
    I driven the b@lls off mine since days one and according to my estimation i should be around 527BHP and 673ft/lb torque. Im hoping to get a few more before i hit 1000miles

    :D

    On another note i did ask the sales man at the dealership where i bought my car about 'run in' periods. His answer was "the engines don't really matter these days as they are run in on a bench at the factory. Its more the brakes you have to worry about, take it easy and build up pressure over the first 1500 miles or so"

    He really didn't seem worried about the engine at all, as for the brakes he seemed to genuinely care? To which i thought was a really nice thing. He doesn't care about me going fast he just wants me to be able to stop :)
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  21. steeve
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    steeve Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 20, 2014]
    Why do the people that design them and engineer them recommend them to be run in then?
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  22. P40ULW
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    P40ULW single and skint? how? oh cars!!! Regional Rep

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    [Aug 20, 2014]
    theres a big difference between designing something and knowing how it actually works in the long run! im sure we can all relate to that?
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  23. a3_phil
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    a3_phil Active Member

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    [Aug 20, 2014]
    I see it more of a business decision than a mechanical one. Think of it this way:

    1. They tell you to run it in gently and you do. If it results in slightly lower compression / worse oil consumption because the engines not been stressed, but Audi don't really care as it's still a fully functional car and probably won't have a warranty claim.
    2. They tell you to run it in gently and you thrash it. If it works fine, all good, if it blows the engine somehow Audi can lay the blame squarely at your feet (if they have evidence) and it won't cost them anything.

    So either way Audi's covered

    Alternatively:

    1. They tell you to run it in hard after warming it up and you do. It gives the best compression and highest possible power and everyone's happy.
    2. They tell you to run it in hard after warming it up, but you overdo it / fail to fully warm it up etc. The engine blows up and Audi now arguably have a warranty claim on their hands.

    So it might give the best future engine performance but it also might cost Audi a new engine.

    If it were me I'd simply say "take it easy for 1000 miles".
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  24. Philbert
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    Philbert New Member

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    [Aug 20, 2014]
    I wouldn't agree with that in this case. Understanding how it works on the long run is exactly what they will be considering when designing the engine.

    I suspect I'll be in the 'treating it reasonably gently' camp when running mine in.
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  25. P40ULW
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    P40ULW single and skint? how? oh cars!!! Regional Rep

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    [Aug 20, 2014]
    If I'm honest I'm neither, I've done nearly 1000 miles already but most of them being on M'way's and dual carriageway's maybe 150-200 being on other roads. when i have given it some beans and driven it hard its always been warmed up, so im abit in the middle.
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  26. Philbert
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    Philbert New Member

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    [Aug 20, 2014]
    Good point - I should have added the caveat "when journey allows, and if I can summon the will power"!
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  27. steeve
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    steeve Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 21, 2014]
    Should any one have an engine problem they will not be asked how or if they ran it in.
    I've said it before but I worked for a company for nearly forty years that made, amongst other things a huge number of engines. I can absolutely assure you that the people that design an engine are experts. The close tolerances used in engines today because of modern manufacturing techniques mean that clearances are very small and in particular rings and bore need to bed in. The type of honing in the cylinder bores has a great impact on the need to run and engine in. On engines designed to go at max rpm from day one the clearances and honing pattern are different and they will not require any bedding in period.

    But as I've also said before its your car to do what you like with it. But with my experience I'll decide to follow what the people who design it engineer it and make it recommend.

    There's no doubt that the vehicle manufacturer has a pecuniary interest in how their product is run in. They will have sound data that shows they suffer more warranty claims on vehicles whose engines are not bedded in.
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  28. Bristle Hound
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    Bristle Hound A Dog Is For Life, Not Just For Christmas

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    [Aug 21, 2014]
    Some good advice Steve :thumbs up:

    [​IMG]
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  29. a3_phil
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    a3_phil Active Member

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    [Aug 21, 2014]
    Forgive me, but I'm not sure what you're suggesting here?

    Are you recommending running it in like the manual (low load, low revs, etc.) or giving it beans from day one?
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  30. steeve
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    steeve Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 22, 2014]
    I'm sorry for the confusion.
    I'm suggesting that the people who know the car best are those that designed, developed and engineered it so I'm unbelievably, deliriously happy to follow their advice. So I suppose I mean like it suggests in the manual. Mother knows best!

    But I do accept and know from a lot of experience that there are engines out there that are designed and built to run at high idle from day one.
    The engines in the vehicles I was involved in would suffer excessive oil consumption if they were not run aggressively, as the bores would glaze and the rings would not bed in. We did have a recommended fix if that occurred.
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  31. m2srt
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    m2srt Member

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    [Aug 24, 2014]
    I've run all my engines in from day 1 bar 1! Guess what, it was that engine that drank oil. I do however think that, when warm, 3000-3500rpm with medium load is a good way to go as it gives sufficient pressure to 'marry' the rings to the cylinder. Also, try not to labour the engine i.e high gear low speed, that can be as bad as 'racing' the engine. I will put my Drive Select in Eco mode and start extending it from about 1000-1500 miles.
    #30

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