1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

BAM S3 full rebuild for Hybrid or BT

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by hoffmanvp3, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Westy
    Offline

    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    17,297
    Likes Received:
    972
    [Oct 16, 2013]
    I've got an AEB head. Was about £120 and needed a further £300 worth of work on it. As long as the head doesn't have any cracks in it you should be fine.
  2. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 16, 2013]
    Are they prone to cracking? Any where in particular?
  3. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,616
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    [Oct 16, 2013]
    Across the exhaust valves.

    Just make sure you check the guides for wear, esp exhaust side and replace, also stem seals.
  4. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 18, 2013]
    well as expected my bores are oval`d:(
    so that means re bore and some shinny new pistons are needed:)
    whats people recommendations on new pistons and new bore sizes?
    I know that 82.5mm is the max safe limit for a road car
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Cylinder one average: 81.111mm with ovality of 0.127mm
    Cylinder two average: 81.274mm with ovality of 0.224mm
    Cylinder three average: 81.308mm with ovality of 0.246mm
    Cylinder four average: 81.260mm with ovality of 0.233mm

    Cylinder three looked like it was running hotter than every one else as thats the worst one

    But this is with a very good factory cross hatch still shown but its done 115K so some things gotta ware.
  5. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    729
    [Oct 18, 2013]
    Not many people check for ovalness say good shout, 83mm pistons all the way...!!
  6. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 18, 2013]
    isn't that too much for a road engine?
  7. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 18, 2013]
    Cylinder 1
    [​IMG]
    Cylinder 2
    [​IMG]
    Cylinder 3
    [​IMG]
    Cylinder 4
    [​IMG]

    the Oil pump chain tensioner didn't look too bad either, but will be replacing it any way
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Shame i gotta replace the pistons as theres not a mark on them
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  8. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,616
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    [Oct 18, 2013]
    83mm is the biggest most people take them as its safe. 83.5mm is the limit, but some people do it.
    If youre going to rebore may aswell go for the biggest displacement you can, 83mm.
  9. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 18, 2013]
    well i`d like to air the side of caution plus 82.5mm i can still use the oem head gasket.
    If i go to 83mm then the block is scrap if any thing goes wrong, where as with 82.5mm ive still got a bit of meat left just in case:)
  10. BuuBBa
    Offline

    BuuBBa Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    3
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    Did You measured the ovalness with bare block? As the measuring should be done with the head on and torqued.
  11. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    Was measured by bare block. Didn't know about the head being torqued on.
    Didn't think it would make any difference.
    Not like they machine the bores in the factory with the head torqued on
  12. Westy
    Offline

    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    17,297
    Likes Received:
    972
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    I'm assuming there might be a very minimum change in ovality with the head on and torqued up, but very minimum.
  13. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,616
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    There will always be a degree of ovality with any used engine due to the way the piston pivots on the rod. Pretty pointless measuring if you ask me. Piston to wall clearences is what you need to be concerned about and if they are within spec all the way round.
    Which is something your machine shop will need to know when boring for the larger pistons.
  14. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    15,926
    Likes Received:
    1,338
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    I would imagine they use a torque plate though

    Integrated Engineering 1.8T 20V Torque Plate

    My block was bored with one bolted on...

    <tuffty/>
    Sam_ likes this.
  15. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    729
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    I dont think an ali head is going to alter the shape of a steel block torqued or not, it just wouldnt happen....

    Karl, Ive just examined my old block, and still scratching my head in why it failed (#2 piston well down on comp....)
    no visable signs of damage, i thought a ring had snapped, but all is fine, i have noticed play front to back in the bore so im guessing it has gone oval, i will measure when i get time, maybe bore wash ??
  16. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,616
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    dave there is always the tiniest bit of front to back movement, but yeh if its excessive then bore wash could account for that. I think tuffty had worn rings due to bore wash at one point.
    But havent you always been running tuned and afrs ok etc.

    Check the head, and the valves/seats.
  17. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    729
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    I put oil down the bore when it was still altogether and the comp came straight back up,,,
    Andrew As got my head so im sure if anything is a miss he will spot it, the head as only done 5k since rebuilt by Drakes
  18. Andrew@A.L.D
    Offline

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp?

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,515
    Likes Received:
    361
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    It was me that damaged rings due to bore wash

    Dave. Picked up your head today and port three is oily, I'm sure your right about your bore or it could be a bad set of rings or they didn't bed in that well?
  19. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    729
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    RS tuning built it last time, and it never made good power on hybrids, so maybe the problem was there all along?

    Anyway sorry for the slight derail....carry on :whistle2:
    badger5 likes this.
  20. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    15,926
    Likes Received:
    1,338
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    Its not just the ali plate/head that does it... its the force induced from the bolts that can pull the block out of square...

    <tuffty/>
  21. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    Well today i got my brother who`s a machinist and got him to measure the block, crank, pistons, piston ring grooves and gudgen pins the old fashion way with mic`s and was very happy with the results:)
    He didn't believe that on of the cylinders was coming back at 81.308mm which should of been slapping like a ******* and smoking oil.
    He also doesn`t like the Faro arms as his work just got rid of theirs as it kept giving false readings.
    Here`s what we found


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  22. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 19, 2013]
    Took ages converting back to Metric as the Mic`s were imperial.
    But very impressed with the results after the engines done 115K but had FASH and was completely standard when i got my hands on it:)
  23. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 22, 2013]
    What's every ones perspective on balancing an engine when you've just replaced the rods?
    id agree and do it if I'd re bored the block with new pistons but don't see the point if the new rods are gram for gram?
    cheers guys
  24. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    729
    [Oct 22, 2013]
    If you are planning a higher revving engine than stock i would do the crank, while its all out
  25. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,616
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Get the oem pistons checked and balanced. Mine werent within a gram like the rods were.
    Also get the crank done, and if going single mass, get that done with it too.
    s3dave likes this.
  26. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 24, 2013]
    Well not much of an update but parts are starting to roll in.
    Shells for the main and big end
    Forge coolant hose kit
    Will be seeing my Rods and stud kit tomorrow:)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Now i know its not every ones brand of vodka but couldn't just leave the block all rusty and scabby after all the hard work of re building her so painted that and its needing a few more coats but liking what im seeing:)
    [​IMG]
    Brazuko and s3dave like this.
  27. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 27, 2013]
    Well the blocks finally cured after 3 coats:)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    A gathering of parts have now turned up so starts the assembly process.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Weighted the new rods and was amazed how they all weighted the same.
    [​IMG]
    The heads off to a specialist i know up here so i`ll have that back in a week, providing its not needing too much.
    Some odds n ends blasted and then heat painted
    [​IMG]
    Thinking of making a old crank from the scrapyards and make a pretty cool lamp lol
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Crank lower main shells in and lubed up with assembly lube
    [​IMG]
    ARP main stud kit in place
    [​IMG]
    Sump needs a little tickle with a file for the stud clearance on the clutch side
    Plastigauge in place for reading the oil clearances
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    And all within spec:)
    Freshly de glazed bores
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    And slowly starting to look like a engine again
    [​IMG]
    Sumps only there to catch assembly lube drips in case any one says i forgot to fit the crank oil seal flange lol
    [​IMG]
    Brazuko and Westy like this.
  28. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 27, 2013]
    Forgot to ask but there no mention on the IE Tuscan rods which direction their to be fitted?
    Thought there was a arrow which has to be pointed towards the timing belt?
    Cheers
  29. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    15,926
    Likes Received:
    1,338
    [Oct 27, 2013]
    Tang faces towards inlet side of the engine

    <tuffty/>
  30. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 27, 2013]
    That`ll do for me, Cheers tuffty:)
    Would of thought IE would of said lol
  31. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,336
    Likes Received:
    697
    [Oct 28, 2013]
    IE will assume the engine builder knows this fella ;)

    same as oe ones which were removed
  32. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 28, 2013]
    Yea that's true. I miss driving the S3 and the smell of the leather seats. Might just sit in her tomorrow and have a nice big sniff lol
    Been driving the octy4x4 that has a stage 1 map for the winter car and miss the tight handling of the S3. The octy's like a boat in the corners and shouldn't be running 200 brake with the standard shocks lol
    Westy likes this.
  33. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,336
    Likes Received:
    697
    [Oct 29, 2013]
    that sounds all kinda of wrong - lol
  34. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 29, 2013]
    Lol
    well that's the engine booked in for balancing. £120+vat. Think that's a bit steep but their the only place up here so gonna have to bite the bullet
  35. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 29, 2013]
    More bits from TPS
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    timing belt kit, aux belt, vag sealant, after run pump, thermostat, slave cylinder, crank case breather housing gasket, complete piston ring set and crank cam belt pulley bolt. Just waiting on new crank thrush washers
    Brazuko likes this.
  36. Westy
    Offline

    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    17,297
    Likes Received:
    972
    [Oct 29, 2013]
    [​IMG]
    Gops, Dani_B19 and superkarl like this.
  37. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Oct 29, 2013]
    A ********...that's prob cheaper lol
    always amusing when u wonder in and ask for vag specific sealant :hubbahubba:
    Westy likes this.
  38. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Nov 1, 2013]
    Well thats the crank and rod/piston assy balanced now, picking them up today:)
    cos i was only getting the crank done got it for £90 all in, normally more if flywheel was geting the same treatment.
    They did ask for it but i argued that when its clutch changing time then the balance will pointless.
    Plus im getting the LOBA stage 2 SMF kit which is lightened and balanced so happy days then.

    Well some intresting parts came through, the Thrust washers for the crank which looked no where near like the old ones and tps were saying these are the part numbers for my BAM, which clearly isnt right
    top ones are the originals and the bottoms are what tps gave me
    [​IMG]
    so the correct ones are coming today:) 026 105 635 A
    the wrong ones were 06A105637A which look like its for the older 1.8t blocks which have 4 thrust washers where as the BAM only has 2.
    [​IMG]
    New clutch bleeder which is metal instead of the plastic oem so wont flex so im hoping this will make my LOBA clutch on/off feel more precious
    s3dave likes this.
  39. hoffmanvp3
    Offline

    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    67
    [Nov 1, 2013]
    Well this morning I've removed and fitted the new clutch slave cylinder and checked the gearbox input shaft oil seal and its not leaking:)
    fitted the new clutch bleeder
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    also picked up the newly balanced crankshaft and con rod assy from Agra machine shop, just a baw hair out they said lol
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Brazuko likes this.
  40. CMcKenzie
    Offline

    CMcKenzie It's supposed to do that..

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2012
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    97
    [Nov 2, 2013]
    How have I been watching this on Facebook but not noticed it on here. Keep up the good work and all the best fella.
    Callum.
    hoffmanvp3 likes this.

Share This Page