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Balance shaft inspection/replacement plus parking sensors

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by tuffy, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 2, 2013]
    Afternoon all
    Booked my 06 170 tdi for the 14th of Jan for a balance shaft inspection/replacement plus parking distance sensors, the wife is a bit concerned about the length of the car so i thought it's a safer option to have them fitted.

    I will be quite interested to see what sort of condition the balance shaft hex is in! and how close it is to potential disaster.
    Will try to get some work in progress pictures of both the shaft and parking distance sensors, i've opted for cobra sensors and been talking to powermax in Ireland regarding the balance shaft

    Will try to keep this updated
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
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  3. countax
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    countax New Member

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    [Jan 3, 2013]
    Tuffy,
    This would very useful info to those of us that would like to know what is involved in the inspection of the hex shaft. Can you pls advise what variant A4 you have, what cost is being quoted for the inspection and then assuming the shaft does need replacing, what the additional cost would be. I have looked into what is required to remove the sump on a Cabriolet to do my own inspection and it seems quite complex, with jigs to hold up the engine and specialist pins to hold the subframe in place to avoid losing wheel geometry. Will your garage be using this process or have they a more DIY friendly way to remove the sump?
    If the costs look reasonable then i might be interested in having them inspect my hex shaft if they are local to the Cotswolds.
    Looking forward to your pictures / updates on this thread.
    Nigel
    #2
  4. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 3, 2013]
    Hi Nigel. i may be wrong here but i cant see any reason why you'd need to support anything to remove only the sump, or there being any risk of damaging to wheel geometry
    Unless a cab is a completely different set up to a Avant (which mine is) its only a matter of removing the plastic undertray, and removing bolts that holds the sump in place

    There isn't any reason to loosen engine mounts or suspension parts just for a balance shaft/hex inspection/replacement
    #3
  5. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jan 3, 2013]

    Mmmmmmmmmmmmmi i have a recollection that I once read the Audi technical Bulletin on this issues and the engine has to be supported from above and then the then the cross member underneath removed. I am also pretty sure the engine has to be moved to one side and then A/C unit slung out of the way ( which then needs a regas). This was to assist in the replacement of the chain driven unit on the BLB engine with the gear driven module.
    That said my engine was repaired by Audi themselves so there may be other ways ..........................

    Paul B7
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  6. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 3, 2013]
    Thanks Paul. Would you need to do all that just to remove the sump??? I already have the gear driven unit so just want to inspect the balance/hex??

    I've been told its just sump off, balance shaft removed/inspected and replaced if needed??

    I stand corrected , Just spoken with my technican, seems we have to remove engine mounts and cross member to fully remove the sump
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
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  7. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jan 4, 2013]
    These ain't no Mk1/2 Escorts...................which is a pity really as with the old engines we didn't have these issues!
    #6
  8. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 4, 2013]
    You're not wrong there mate....My sierra 3 door cosworth had less issues, i know my balance shaft hasn't failed....yet, but prevention and all that!
    #7
  9. J0N35Y
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    J0N35Y Member

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    [Jan 4, 2013]
    You will need to support the engine from above as the sump will not drop down enough to remove it without removing the front crossmember. This supports the engine and also supports the suspension/anti roll bar. This is for a car with a longitudinal engine set up. It's not a 5 minute job trust me!
    #8
  10. ctd
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    ctd Member

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    [Jan 4, 2013]
    audi quoted me 5hrs just to inspect my chain drive, thats not fixing it of putting the bits back either but just to get to it
    #9
  11. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 5, 2013]

    Im now aware this isn't a job that can be completed during the adverts. Think it still makes sense to at least get it inspected to hopefully avoid major expense at any given time without warning.
    #10
  12. J0N35Y
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    J0N35Y Member

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    [Jan 5, 2013]
    If you can afford to have it done then it is well worth the money. Very wise decision!
    #11
  13. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 5, 2013]
    To be honest money i could do without spending, just think the potential alternative would be far more costly. I knew the issue existed before i bought the car so cant really moan about it.

    To get to the core of it, and i'm sure you'll all agree that this is a cost that no Audi owner should have to suffer. Audi should man up and recall all effected cars and stop pretending that this isn't a ongoing issue.
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  14. J0N35Y
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    J0N35Y Member

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    [Jan 5, 2013]
    Here here........somehow I think this will never happen though 😩
    #13
  15. ctd
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    ctd Member

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    [Jan 5, 2013]
    when i rang Audi about my car just before Christmas i was passed on to Audi customer services, the woman told me in the most condecending voice," well what did you expect, the car has done 107,000 miles and is 7 years old after all!"

    with an attitude like that from customer services what chance has anyone got of any help from Audi, i cold feel my piss starting to boil at this point so put the phone down on her so she didn't make a very bad situation any worst
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  16. J0N35Y
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    J0N35Y Member

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    [Jan 5, 2013]
    It's pretty vile that customer services from a "upper range" car manufacturer comes out with something like that. Surely they should be praising the product and if not surprised about an issue at least pretend! 😄 I'd have probably blown my top if that happened to me, fair play to you!
    #15
  17. apples24
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    apples24 New Member

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    [Jan 5, 2013]
    mine was done the other month, just turned the shaft around as it sits further in on one side
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  18. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 5, 2013]
    Anymore info fella.... done by who, costs, time etc TIA

    Mac
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  19. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 5, 2013]
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
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  20. apples24
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    apples24 New Member

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    [Jan 5, 2013]
    mine was coming apart anyway to put a new sump on but i would imagine a couple hours labour.

    he was originally gonna fit a allen key cut too length as there stronger but mine wasnt too worn after100000 miles, it wears at one side, as it sits in further on the other side he took the hex out and put it back in the other way round
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  21. countax
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    countax New Member

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    [Jan 15, 2013]
    Tuffy,
    How did it go yesterday? Hopefully it was good news on the hex shaft wear front. Did you manage to get any photos of the work?
    Nigel
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  22. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 15, 2013]
    Hi. Its work in progress, Only doing it in the evenings after work when my friends garage is closed, so far.... up on the ramps, undertray removed, oil drained, rear bumper removed for parking sensors, all four wheels removed for refurb.

    Wanted to get the bumper removed a sensors fitted first so the bodyshop can be spraying/refurbing while the balance shaft is being addressed.

    I will keep it updated
    #21
  23. Whopper
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    Whopper Active Member

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    [Jan 15, 2013]
    Listening closely to this! :)
    #22
  24. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 15, 2013]
    Could be a very long work in progress!! Cut the parking sensors in earlier this afternoon but couldnt get bumper a wheels to bodyshop because of the snow!

    Hopefully will start the sump strip down later today or tomorrow. We've decided to replace the balance shaft whatever the condition of it. think its the sensible thing to do as the car will be stripped anyway
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
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  25. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 15, 2013]
    You don't need to remove the subframe but the bumper needs to come off and the engine jacked up as far as it goes. The sump then can be taken off and will just about clear the subframe. Done it in the summer to a b7 audi a4 with the 2.0 Tdi 140Bhp engine. The car had already the gear type balancer shaft assembly (2009 model) but the hex drive was rounded off. The low oil pressure took 2 turbochargers off, the last one only 5k bought brand new from dealer ! Got the new hex drive for a fiver in local audi dealer + it needed an oil change and genuine white sump sealant ! Not a job to do on your own or in the cold !
    Funny thing is the car had 89k when the first turbo failed and upon questioning the dealer about the chain type oil pump drive they have assured me it has the gear type which is the better part which does not fail. Yeah, right ! The low oil pressure light came on at 98k !!!
    #24
  26. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 15, 2013]
    Thanks for that, we'll have a look into that method tomorrow, easier than dropping the subframe would you say??

    So the car in question had the chain driven oil pump plus replaced balance shaft and still failed??
    #25
  27. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    UPDATE!!!!
    Ok guys.....Due to the bad weather and just being too busy, we've only just removed the balance shaft tonight......and good job we did!!!!
    Case anyone doesn't know, it a 170 with 70k on the clock with full Audi service history, all i can say is glad we didn't leave the balance shaft much longer! Loads of play in the drive and the hex key was starting to round off

    Bit of a job to tell how many more miles it would of covered before failure but i'd be surprised if it would of seen 100k.
    I strongly urge anyone who hasn't, to get it checked!

    i'm now in the hands of powermax engineering, hoping for a quick turn a round on the uprated balance shaft. Will update again as soon as things progress
    #26
  28. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    Thanks for the update Tuffy, keep us posted fella, turnaround time, price etc. I'm guessing there will be a lot of peeps watching this thread for the outcome.
    #27
  29. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    Here's a picture of the damaged hex. Sorry not very good but you can clearly see the shine on it caused by the wear!
    Dont know why the pic is so large either!!!

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    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
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  30. Darren198712
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    Darren198712 Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    wow. great update.

    can't really see clearly but can kind of make it out
    #29
  31. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    I will, i can give a rough indication on price for the uprated balance shaft. £295+vat on an exchange basis.
    #30
  32. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    What engine code is yours Tuffy.
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  33. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    BRD mate
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  34. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    Mine too, so are you taking the car to be done or dending the bits off for replacement
    #33
  35. Darren198712
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    Darren198712 Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    mines a BRD engine too :'-(
    #34
  36. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    You need to have the balance shaft removed mate then send it off to powermax for them to uprate, they may have them on the shelf so one to two day turn a round, if not they uprate yours then ship back. Either way you send them yours as its on an exchange basis.
    Hope that helps mate
    #35
  37. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    Cheers fella, can't wait to hear it all goes
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  38. Darren198712
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    Darren198712 Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    Tuffy and Macdoon have you ever thought of converting the oil pump back to a 1.9 ?
    #37
  39. Steve220
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    Steve220 Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    That WAS lucky! What is the length of the hex shaft? (as accurate as possible if you would be so kind)
    #38
  40. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    Tell us more Darren
    #39
  41. matthew999
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    matthew999 Member

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    [Jan 30, 2013]
    Hi Tuffy,

    Good to here your pro active approach, that wear looked pretty bad. I think im going to do something similar in the summer. Let us know how fast the turn around is at powermax. Also are you changing anything else while you have the balancer module out, oil pump or crank gear? Also how long did it take the garage to get to the point of inspection.

    cheers

    Matt
    #40

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