1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Badger5 TIP & JC Filter on Friday :)

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by [Dave B], Feb 8, 2011.

  1. [Dave B]
    Offline

    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    111
    I'm going down to see Bill on Friday to finally remedy a boost leak and to have a 3" TIP and Jetex filter fitted. My cars had a custom Jabba map applied and has the bhp/torque that's displayed below (standard airbox and TIP). I can't wait to see what impact the TIP and filter have on it :)

    [​IMG]

    Obviously all rolling roads are different so I'm most interested in the effect on the curves, hopefully the mods will help sustain the power for longer towards the top end.

    I'll post up the results after Friday.

    I'm so excited I couldn't resist posting! :)

    Dave.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2011
    #1
  2. Essflee
    Offline

    Essflee Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    27
    Interested to see how you get on Dave, I've thought about taking the long drive down to see Bill at some point too, I'd be confident the car was in good hands :)
    #2
  3. Dane
    Offline

    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    84
  4. [Dave B]
    Offline

    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    111
    Exactly my reason for going, I wouldn't normally travel for three hours to see a tuner but given Bill's rep I think it's worth it.

    I think there might be a queue forming at Bill's door!
    #4
  5. Dane
    Offline

    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    84
    Bill will sort you out, unfortunately I'm going for mainly boring maintenance reasons.
    #5
  6. Essflee
    Offline

    Essflee Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    27
    #6
  7. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    15,734
    Likes Received:
    1,269
    Best hurry up and put my car back together then if all you lot are turning up!! lol

    <tuffty/>
    #7
  8. Dane
    Offline

    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    84
  9. finesse
    Offline

    finesse Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,811
    Likes Received:
    10
    long way to drive, am sure your issues will be sorted!
    #9
  10. [Dave B]
    Offline

    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    111
    The chav inside me is looking forward to the noise the TIP and filter make :blush:
    #10
  11. Dane
    Offline

    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    84
    Are you gonna be there on saturday Tuffty, might bring some systema goodness with me if you are
    #11
  12. metricspaces
    Offline

    metricspaces Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi Dave, will be interesting to see what results you get!

    What is your current BHP? I could be reading the graphs wrong, it seems to be 224.39 bhp, which is standard power? But you say you have a Jabba Remap, is this a stage-1 map?
    #12
  13. coyle
    Offline

    coyle From Show... to GO

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    1
    my car made 234bhp with bill's TIP, its APY standard 210bhp (but it was running 225ish standard)
    #13
  14. L3WJX
    Offline

    L3WJX Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Were is bill from ?
    I would like a T.I.P If they have that better gain :)
    #14
  15. shanejess
    Online

    shanejess Guest

    some say hes from mars, me i dont know never met the guy
    #15
  16. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,263
    Likes Received:
    668
    #16
  17. metricspaces
    Offline

    metricspaces Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    1
    225ish standard for an 210bhp without any mods - seems strange? Was your car on the same rolling road before and after fitting the TIP?
    #17
  18. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    15,734
    Likes Received:
    1,269
    Yes mate,I'll be there :thumbsup:

    <tuffty/>
    #18
  19. [Dave B]
    Offline

    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    111
    Well according to the awesome graph it was running 225 at the wheels when run in 4wd (i.e. post transmission losses) which was about the same as the other stage one mapped 8L S3's on the day (as.net organised RR day). So I'd expect it's about 260 bhp'ish? A couple of pics from the day it ran below:

    On the rollers:
    [​IMG]

    The queue :) :
    [​IMG]

    Due to the dyno lottery I'm not so bothered about numbers, I'm more bothered about how the line/power delivery changes and what the TIP and filter make it sound like.
    #19
  20. metricspaces
    Offline

    metricspaces Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ah right, makes sense. Would be good to see your graphs if you get a dyno from Bill before and after TIP to see the relative increase & change in delivery.

    Second pic is pretty cool, all those S3's lined up!
    #20
  21. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,263
    Likes Received:
    668
    well, fueling issues, with system too rich error, was this:-
    [​IMG]

    Block 032 long term would show > -20% to 25% to trip the MIL light where its trying to wind back fueling caused by the fuel pressure regulator not being able to regulate cos its filter screen is clogged with shyte..
    the debris on there is rotten, degraded rubber hose! Fuel hose! like A4's reportedly suffer from also..

    Seen this once before hence checking it sooner rather than later. concidentally, also a 225 S3 which I first came across this problem.
    the only rubber pipe upstream is the small link piece in the engine bay to the fuel rail. the rest is plastic pipe from the tank.
    why oh why do vag choose such poor grade rubbers on their engines?!?!?! If its a running problem, 8/10 times its a rubber pipe related issue.. doh!

    Cleaned.. and fueling was ok... BUT, not for long.. 4 dyno runs later.. I notice block 001 lambda adjust is back -20% level.. FFS.. Remove it again, clogged again!
    FIX: replace the link pipe to the rail complete with new piece. thoroughly clean rail off car, see the rest of the debris fall out in stringy like strands. ewww..

    I'll let Dave say how the rest went when he finally gets home off the Friday night traffic jam called M6

    My dyno is not a happy dyno is all I will say.. so when wellys makes what it makes, relative to std k04's you can appreciate the difference is large
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
    #21
  22. s3_kev
    Offline

    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,999
    Likes Received:
    18
    going to have to whip out my fpr tomoz then as i have had 032 long term trim isuues for a while not to those extremes though but always tend to go back to around 12% cant remember if -or+ but i have changed every vac hose boost hase checked for leaks etc and non so this is next port of call
    #22
  23. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,263
    Likes Received:
    668
    this is a -ve trim to the extreme... when fpr is clogged and rail pressure is full pump pressure
    #23
  24. s3_kev
    Offline

    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,999
    Likes Received:
    18
    i doubt it is clogged on mine anyhow though as its a fairly new fpr also, got to be worth a quick look though as i have no other areas left to check i can think of
    #24
  25. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,440
    Likes Received:
    1,281
    Argh! Teasing us!

    Really looking forward to hearing the results of this!

    I might be fitting one for Hadders over the weekend, depending on if we agree a time that suits :)
    #25
  26. finesse
    Offline

    finesse Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,811
    Likes Received:
    10
    really like the pic
    #26
  27. [Dave B]
    Offline

    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    111
    Well it's been a long day. I'll give a full report tomorrow as I'm knackered now (the M6 was a nightmare) but firstly a big thanks to Bill and Tufty for putting up with me all day - a top service lads and highly recommended :)

    All i'll say about the power/mapping for now is 250bhp....300lbft.....26psi :ohmy:

    I'll post up graphs and more info tomorrow.

    P.s. The induction note is awesome with the TIP/filter :)
    #27
  28. metricspaces
    Offline

    metricspaces Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Will be interesting to see the gain :) . Did you do a dyno run before adding the TIP & filter?
    #28
  29. Essflee
    Offline

    Essflee Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    27
    26 psi, which working it out is almost 1.8bar !!

    Be interested to hear all the results mate, should imagine mine would be mapped similar to yours
    #29
  30. JS1500
    Offline

    JS1500 Howdy

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    8
    Similar figures to me. Mine peaked at 27.5psi!
    #30
  31. metricspaces
    Offline

    metricspaces Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm on CC Stage 1 also. Checked some old logs. I'm peaking at about 22psi

    See logs here View image: Run 05 APRIL 2010 01
    #31
  32. JS1500
    Offline

    JS1500 Howdy

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    8
    Cheers for that. I'd rather have 22psi over a wider range of revs than 27.5psi for a nanosecond (nice shove in the back though)!
    I've spoken to CC about it and they're saying it's unusual and they can turn mine down to 22psi max, but they want to see VAGCOM logs first and i don't have VAGCOM yet.
    I think i'll need a hand from a local ASN member with VAGCOM to get it sorted.
    #32
  33. coyle
    Offline

    coyle From Show... to GO

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    1
    yep, on bills RR, withing 1hour of each other, bill said it was high for an APY :)
    #33
  34. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,263
    Likes Received:
    668
    n75 change due to see if that curbs its high spike...
    fueling is better now than its previous map, but the spike is unwanted
    #34
  35. metricspaces
    Offline

    metricspaces Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    1
    One small thing about my logs. Whilst I'm CC stage 1, it does have the timing pull back a small bit.
    #35
  36. Essflee
    Offline

    Essflee Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    27
    Where's funky junks full right up then...:shrug:
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2011
    #36
  37. [Dave B]
    Offline

    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    111
    Sorry for the delay, I've been outside trying to put one of my pugs back together.

    Anyway, Friday was a long day. Following the codes I've seen the first port of call was to check the PCV system, all the pipies seemed ok with no sign of splits so it was onto pressure testing the charge system between the end of the charge pipe and the throttle body. Despite loading it with 25psi there were no hisses which seemed a bit puzzling (I was sure there was a leak). At this point Bill showed his magic and suggested checking the FPR, low and behold it was clogged full of rubber deposits from the fuel line (thanks Optimax/VPower) as shown above. After cleaning it thoroughly Bill and Tufty loaded it for the dyno.

    After a couple of runs Bill noticed the logs showing the car was trying to run rich again so off came the FPR again. It looked like we hadn't cleaned it! Bill and Tufty then proceeded to clean over the FPR again and remove the rubber fuel lines (which were replaced) and the rail/injectors for a good clean. 4 injector seals were also replaced at this point as there was weapage onto the top of the inlet manifold. It was then loaded up for another set of runs which showed up no issues...apart from the fact that the car was running stupidly high boost for a K04 with no other mods, over 26psi, which was resulting in just over 300lbs torque! I've known it was punchy ever since Jabba mapped it but I didn't realise it was quite THAT punchy. The more worrying thing was that the map was causing the car to run a bit lean (AFR in the high 13's - 14's). Whilst Tufty was fitting the TIP and filter I talked through the options with Bill about mapping as I was pretty concerned about the boost, but mainly about the AFR.

    After talking to Bill I decided to go for a map change to Custom Code. I've had the current map for over three years and fancied a change and from talking to Bill Custom Code seemed to meet my requirements most closey as I'm not planning any more engine mods so a good stage one will do me nicely. Bill promptly applied the map and when the TIP and filter fitted it was time for another run. It finally ran 250bhp and 300lbs of torque, so it's still aggressive but the fuelling is now in the 12's so the EGT's are not hitting the limits as soon as they were. I'll post the graphs up tomorrow when I have access to a scanner.

    After driving the car back from Gloucester my observations are:

    - It sounds great :)
    - There seems to be less lag when you initially press the throttle
    - It seems pokey'er at the top end

    I'm still concerned about the mountain of torque but I'm not quite sure where to go from here. Changing the N75 seems like the next step but it's been like this since it was first mapped and their seems to be quite a few other BAM 225 owners also running very high boost after a stage 1 map?

    P.s. If anyone is running a jabba map, get your fuelling checked. Also, if you're running high boost like me get it on a rolling road and take a look at your exhaust manifold under boost, if that doesn't make you think about changing the stock manifold, I don't know what will!!

    Again, many thanks to Bill and Tufty :)
    #37
  38. metricspaces
    Offline

    metricspaces Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Nice write up! Did you dyno the car after applying the custom code, but before adding the TIP & filter - it would be good if you did, otherwise it's not possible to tell accurately what gains you made from the two mods.

    Your final torque figures are the same from before and after adding the TIP & Filter, were your final bhp figures the same?

    Wasn't there someone else with a stock S3 on a stage one map that went from 250bhp up to 270bhp?
    #38
  39. [Dave B]
    Offline

    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    111
    Let me know how you get on with CC as I'd be interested to know if they solve the boost issue, I've got Vagcom if you're anywhere near me and want to log it.
    #39
  40. [Dave B]
    Offline

    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    111
    I actually can't remember wether we did back to back runs with the jabba map and with/without the TIP and filter, we we're at it for about 6 hours and did probably 10 different runs in total....I *think* I did gain about 8bhp with the TIP and filter but I'm not sure. I think you're referring to Dane's S3 which made the 20 bhp leap? I reckon there's more in my lump if I can smooth out the spike and maybe peak at around 21psi and hold it.
    #40

Share This Page