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bad boy honda type R

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by nlw73, Sep 15, 2005.

  1. nlw73
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    nlw73 Member

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    well at least he thought so until he got some panzer and AMD action dealt out

    last night, just cruising home down me local air strip...and this black civic type R new shape comes murdering round the corner, lights blazing and up my chuff!

    had some jap style big bore exhaust and filter I think...

    quick little cars as 200 bhp and no weight..

    he must have been thinking I was standard fat boy S3...

    anyways refused to move, he could not go up the inside but he did try!!

    anyways bit of road ahead, I boot it in 3rd and into 4th and he is going backwards and not gaining.

    he has to drop the honda as they have no torque!

    flashed me to say he had given up so I did smirk and think well done to AMD for some fine mapping and bags of torque.

    bit naughty but taught him a lesson!
    #1
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  3. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    Nice one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #2
  4. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    RESPECT! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #3
  5. dummi
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    dummi smoking a6

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    totally no torque /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    #4
  6. imported_Strider81
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    imported_Strider81 Guest

    [Sep 15, 2005]
    surely ud whoop ass even without a remap! the s3 rules
    #5
  7. Defratos
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    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    sounds sweet dude, just out of curiousity, roughtly how much torque do you get from a maped S3? and whats the standard torque like?
    #6
  8. rickparmar
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    rickparmar va va voom

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    haha well done dude
    #7
  9. imported_Stewart
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    imported_Stewart Guest

    [Sep 15, 2005]
    Nope, definitely takes a remap to have the edge on the R's, been there, done that both in standard form and mapped...the R's are bloody quick when driven hard and not to be taken lightly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #8
  10. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    Another facile and subjective discussion.

    I have driven with type R's on track and found them to be very close to the (straight line) pace of my chipped S3s - certainly not the story described above.

    Again, a bit like the TDI vs S3 argument you simply cannot compare plain figures, but the Type R when driven properly will easily match if not outpace a standard 225 S3 and runs close to chipped cars. The type R continues to make it's power high up in the rev range when an S3 is running out of the efficient boost range and heat soaking.

    I suspect the one you raced was driven badly or was a rebadged 's'type civic.
    #9
  11. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    Thought Torque didnt come into it, as some ppl have said on TDi Vs S3, oh well, lol, i'll just let my car do the torquein for me, haha!
    #10
  12. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 16, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Thought Torque didnt come into it, as some ppl have said on TDi Vs S3,


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think you need to re-read that thread...

    ...and maybe understand the difference between power and torque delivery. Then it will become more clear.
    #11
  13. dummi
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    dummi smoking a6

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    [Sep 16, 2005]
    found even when i have borrowed my mothers car , citroen xantia 3 litre v6 stock with 190 horses it will easily destroy a type r, mountains of torque and power in upper rev range, things like a merc 270tdi will beat the citroen though , also comic value with a stock citroen that looks stock is good too, many a laugh with that, bad boys with type r's beware of citroens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
    #12
  14. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 16, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    found even when i have borrowed my mothers car , citroen xantia 3 litre v6 stock with 190 horses it will easily destroy a type r,


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Interesting...

    I, as David, have found that a well driven CTR will give a chipped S3 a hard time in certain instances...so I find the fact that a V6 Xantia cound 'destroy' one, quite amusing.

    [ QUOTE ]

    mountains of torque and power in upper rev range, things like a merc 270tdi will beat the citroen though , also comic value with a stock citroen that looks stock is good too, many a laugh with that, bad boys with type r's beware of citroens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I guess it's all back to gearing, gear selected, driver and the road.

    I can give CTRs a shock in my old GTI...but then again that pulls away from standard S3s...but I could never claim to be equal, or even quicker than a CTR...

    That must be some Xantia, if it can 'destroy' them.
    #13
  15. marctwo
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    marctwo Member

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    [Sep 16, 2005]
    If you want something that will "easily destroy a civic type r" then get one of these /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    [​IMG]
    #14
  16. dummi
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    dummi smoking a6

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    [Sep 16, 2005]
    i agree with you on gear selection, i have to assume that the ctr would be more difficult to keep in the power band of the vtec which it probably kicks ass in, but through the rev range that v6 is impressive, maybe its me & badge snobery that is shocked by the performance of this xantia, but it has left ctr's on the road, most impressive is when it has been at the second set of lights, think i'm just impressed, miss the audi when i'm in it though
    #15
  17. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Sep 16, 2005]
    I've pulled 20+ car lengths on a ctr from 50mph on and he was gunning it.
    Not bad motors though.
    #16
  18. ImS3ola
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    ImS3ola Member

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    [Sep 16, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    found even when i have borrowed my mothers car , citroen xantia 3 litre v6 stock with 190 horses it will easily destroy a type r, mountains of torque and power in upper rev range, things like a merc 270tdi will beat the citroen though , also comic value with a stock citroen that looks stock is good too, many a laugh with that, bad boys with type r's beware of citroens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Posts like this are such /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif it's amazing!

    I would be surprised if you could even keep up let alone 'destroy' a CTR with that car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
    #17
  19. imported_fingermouse
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    imported_fingermouse Guest

    [Sep 17, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    surely ud whoop ass even without a remap! the s3 rules

    [/ QUOTE ]

    sorry don`t agree a std S3 and a CTR are about the same, in a straight line the CTR may even have the edge.
    #18
  20. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Sep 17, 2005]
    ctr's run 15's at pod,s3's high 14/15,very similar.
    #19
  21. fasteddie
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    fasteddie Member

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    [Sep 18, 2005]
    i had one of these and they are quick, full stop. if you ever ran into one you thought was gunning it and you p****d all over it i guess it was driven by a kid who thought he could drive but couldn't. straight line speed is close but standard to standard the ctr would have the s3 to 60 and round a track i believe the ctr would leave the s3 behind. you can always relax in the knowledge that the interior and build quality of the S3 is far far superior to that of the ctr as is the bose sound, lovely the ctr sound - **** i had to rip my standard stuff out i could hardly hear it over the sound of the screaming engine. dont knock the ctr though the engine is a fine peice of kit, 225bhp standard in jap form, 320bhp when blown. it is now the engine of choice appearing in the Ariel Atom, god knows what that goes like.
    #20
  22. DAF
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    DAF Member

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    [Sep 19, 2005]
    did you all know that in 14millon V-Tec engines not one as ever been back to the factory as a failure. Sorry now way would a sh itron zantia beet a CTR wake up lad.
    #21
  23. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Sep 19, 2005]
    My car is 360bhp eddie hence why i pulled away from him from 50+.Shocks a few people.
    #22
  24. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 19, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    My car is 360bhp eddie hence why i pulled away from him from 50+.Shocks a few people.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Showoff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif
    #23
  25. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Sep 19, 2005]
    hey jojo,got that fmic fitted yet??
    #24
  26. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 19, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    hey jojo,got that fmic fitted yet??

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No not yet, just got my brakes back, gonna bed them in first, hopefully should be fitted for AudiInternational in a months time though - you coming along?
    #25
  27. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Sep 19, 2005]
    It's a bit far for me mate,might go to pod in october if the clutch is bedded in.
    #26
  28. imported_Strider81
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    imported_Strider81 Guest

    [Sep 19, 2005]
    Audi International!!!!!!

    more details please!
    #27
  29. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Audi International!!!!!!

    more details please!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's gonna be at Castle Coombe on the weekend of 22nd-23rd October, check out the meets section at the bottom of the Forum listings /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #28
  30. dickys3
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    dickys3 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Audi International!!!!!!

    more details please!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Come on Strider, put your name down for being on the audi-sport stand!

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #29
  31. nervus
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    nervus Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    did you all know that in 14millon V-Tec engines not one as ever been back to the factory as a failure. Sorry now way would a sh itron zantia beet a CTR wake up lad.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well thats what the sales blurb says but i personally know 2 people whos engines went.

    One threw a leg out of bed and required a new complete engine to the tune of £8600 and i cant remember what happened to other but also required a new engine.
    #30
  32. nlw73
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    nlw73 Member

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    could have been badly driven but I deliberatly wanted to test the torque thing.

    I know the vtec has littel beloew 5k as I have driven a few ont he road and track but it was fun none the less

    I think he thought I must have been std S3 so worth a crack!

    as for torque then I am getting 280 ft lbs at 3k rpm with the AMD re map so she pulls well

    given the speed I was doign with the Type R behind me then he must have been in 3rd like me!

    no chance as they have bugger all torque but worth a giggle as /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif on his fireworks!

    strider there would be nothing in it without the remap as S3 is a lot heavier I think

    David R...why has heat soak go anything to do with high revs?
    more like turbo not deisgned for high revs, cams runing out of grunt, not shifting the air as well as the inetrcooler needing to be bigger to flwo more air into the system. it was a cool day so ok for turbo v NA discussions.

    you get heat soak from top mounted coolers as well as sitting in traffic...
    I was moving!!
    #31
  33. nervus
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    nervus Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    I had a type-r for 9mths and ran the type-r with me driving against my brother in the brand new S3 and the S3 murdered me from launch as you'd expect.

    Also whenever he went for it and i had to respond it was all over before i could react.

    However, when he was responding to me and i held the R in gear at the optimum speed i.e. 60mph in third or 80 in forth and i could just about pull away.

    If your not in the VTEC range in the type-r then forget it, though on a track i'd assume that it would always be in the zone.

    On the roads however its easy to be caught knapping in a CTR even worse than being caught off boost in too high a gear.
    #32
  34. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    David R...why has heat soak go anything to do with high revs?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Everything...


    [ QUOTE ]

    more like turbo not deisgned for high revs, cams runing out of grunt, not shifting the air as well as the inetrcooler needing to be bigger to flwo more air into the system. it was a cool day so ok for turbo v NA discussions.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ahh...an expert view.
    Davids S3 has replacement ICs, de-restricted turbo pipework and hi-flow cats and exhaust...and it still heatsoaks, despite flowing far more (and cooler) air than standard.

    Heatsoak is a function of heat in the engine. A standard engine heatsoaks...so I'm damn sure a chipped engine also heatsoaks - even your AmD chipped version.
    So, if a chipped car with WAY better intercooling heatsoaks - because the turbo is working so hard - then yours does too.
    There is nothing wrong with the cams...it's the exhaust manifold and turbo that are the restriction.

    ...all this heatsoak at 6000RPM, if not less.


    [ QUOTE ]

    you get heat soak from top mounted coolers as well as sitting in traffic...
    I was moving!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    ...and S3s in general use....regardless of how fast you are moving....that's a fact...regardless of how much you happen to disagree with it...
    #33
  35. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    On the roads however its easy to be caught knapping in a CTR even worse than being caught off boost in too high a gear.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    ...and that's the key!

    Right gear...in both cars.

    Off boost or off VTEC...same effect...no go.
    #34
  36. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    could have been badly driven but I deliberatly wanted to test the torque thing.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And how did you do that - we have no idea what the other driver was up to - even if it was a type R as advertised.

    [ QUOTE ]
    as for torque then I am getting 280 ft lbs at 3k rpm with the AMD re map so she pulls well

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have 332lbft - and my points regarding the type R still stand.

    [ QUOTE ]
    given the speed I was doign with the Type R behind me then he must have been in 3rd like me!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    or 4th or 5th?? How can you tell?

    [ QUOTE ]
    no chance as they have bugger all torque but worth a giggle as /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif on his fireworks!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Perhaps there is a "bod boy" type R owner on the CTR forums telling tales of some fool driving like an idiot on public roads in an S3 trying to prove a point. What a /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif waste of time....

    [ QUOTE ]
    strider there would be nothing in it without the remap as S3 is a lot heavier I think

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Again how can you tell, and what's the point?

    [ QUOTE ]
    David R...why has heat soak go anything to do with high revs?
    more like turbo not deisgned for high revs, cams runing out of grunt, not shifting the air as well as the inetrcooler needing to be bigger to flwo more air into the system. it was a cool day so ok for turbo v NA discussions.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I refer to Glen's points above. Heatsoak has everything to do with high revs as the engine and turbo create more heat which means less dense air through the intake and therefore less power - it's not rocket science or anything nearly so esoteric - a simple principle. But you do have a point that the turbo on an S3 is not designed well for high revs especially when chipped and this strengthens my view that a type R driven well and in a comitted manner will not be disgraced by a chipped S3. My S3 will still heatsoak despite having 2 fully custom front and side mount intercoolers, even on a cold day (I've lost 10mph on the knockhill main straight due to this problem with an ambient temp of 5degrees).

    [ QUOTE ]
    you get heat soak from top mounted coolers as well as sitting in traffic...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Heatsoak affects ALL turbo cars to a significant extent and NA cars less so - less max power reading and perhaps a little more science.

    Anyhow - what's the point? That an S3 chipped is a little faster than a CTR - yeah, big deal - its got more power.... Surely the point of this whole facile discussion is that you were behaving like a clown on a public road, affording drivers of faster cars the kind of reputation that puts insurance premiums up, causes public rage and ultimately results in accidents and fatalities.

    You want to race - go to the 1/4 mile or track - if you are driving on the road then for goodnessake grow up before your own impetuousness forces you to.
    #35
  37. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ctr's run 15's at pod,s3's high 14/15,very similar.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Good point - if you accept that the S3 gains 0.3-0.5 seconds due to traction off the line compared to the CTR you have a very similar performance - arguably leaning in favour of the CTR.
    #36
  38. madvw
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    madvw Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    David R, was that a regular 4-can or a family 6-can of whoop-ass you just opened there?

    couldn't agree more though.
    #37
  39. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    That was the full 6 pack, if I'm not very much mistaken!

    Again, well said David...
    #38
  40. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Thought Torque didnt come into it, as some ppl have said on TDi Vs S3,


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think you need to re-read that thread...

    ...and maybe understand the difference between power and torque delivery. Then it will become more clear.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    OK, but doesnt torque actually accelerate a car or am i wrong in thinking this?
    #39
  41. nlw73
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    nlw73 Member

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    [Sep 20, 2005]
    easy chaps!!

    my point was he was acting like a complete loon cutting everyone up and I just thought it would be a bit of fun!

    I reckon I caught him off guard or he was not expecting it.

    I am aware of turbo dynamics and cooling as I owned 2 x skylines GTRs in my time...before I bought a house or two!

    the S3 is jus not a great car to start modding in terms of money you need to spend for big gains but a nice road car and good fast arm chair for work and havign a bit of fun

    the skylines could give back great gains when you changed the air filters, better flow through the mainfolds, exhaust, remove the cats and just get it breathing better! from 280 to 360 no worries so the car was always well over engineered.

    I changed the turbos, radiator, intercooler, cams, injectors and a properly mapped ECU so my last 33 gtr gave me 500 bhp at 1.2 bar. also head gasket was changed for steel version to keep in under control and not too much hike in compression.

    mind you the clutch and everything els ehad to be changed to cope with it all. so I don't se the point with the S3 as I never intend to track it like the skyline. it just never seemed to end when you started tuning.....

    Heatsoak does in fact impact all cars in that respect as you say but that is more induced by heat from the engine under high load.

    can you not enrich the mixture to help with the cooling and keep perfiormance up if the air is not coolign enough? safer at least I guess..

    I always thought heat soak was from stading still so you have a much higer ambient temp when you set off so turbo cars suffer over the NA version?? higher temps for thw inetrcooler to deal with hence the charge is hotter to the engine which puts a downer on performance.

    David have you thought about water cooling or charge cooling to help you out?


    anyways not long left for the S3 now as looking to go to M3 or maybe even 996 R34 GTR or M3 CSL if I can find a well priced one.

    The audi has been a great car and not missed a beat in 11 months of ownership. just looking for nmore now

    torque gives you pull from down below...bhp keeps the top end up end.
    #40

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