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Back from the RING. tales, advice and lessons learnt.

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by superkarl, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Well everyone i got back on friday after spending the week there and WHAT A PLACE! love it. absolutely canot wait to go back! although i hope i dont have so many annoying problems next time!

    After a long and steady journey, i managed 32mpg there, which i was very surprised at, ten minutes from the campsite i switch the stereo off to hear the exhaust blowin its nuts off. After inspection next morning it turned out that a bolt had dissapeared from my turbo exhaust flange and was blowin straight up through the hole (LOUD). So i did my first lap, when it just started to rain, and ended up spinning off moments after seeing a merc totalled! Im not gonna try and sound brave, i sh1t myself!, didnt hit anything and i soon completed it VERY conservatively. I will never go on it with a wet track again!

    Following day i live with the fact my car will sound like a tractor the rest of the trip and it wont do much harm! How wrong was i!! second lap, a confident one, i absolutely loved it, fast but not pushing beyond my comfort zone, i turn off to the car park and smoke pours from the bonnet and through the vents, my mate immediately gets out and looks under the hood and we bail to a spot. The blowing exhaust had started to set alight the heat wrap around the turbo boost pipe. What a relief it didnt burn through!

    After some searching around and speaking to some kind guys at the rental garages they referred me to a VAG specialist in the town ADENAU, the garage is called ROLLMAN motors, initially the bloke in the office was well, german, pretty miserable and not helped by the language barrier. However going straight to the mechanic, he was very helpful, actually tried to understand and came to look at the car with enthusiasm ALL british mechanics should have. He searched around and found a bolt to fit and also tightened up the two remaining flange bolts, THANK GOD!

    So next day, our last, we have two laps, half way round i have the low oil pressure light come on, unable to stop i limp my way to the car park, top end sounding like a bag of nails! Now not long after i bought the car i had this light after some relatively hard driving, and i THOUGHT i had fixed it after replacing the sump and pick up pipe, which was clogged to say the least with hard oil. So i let the car rest for half an hour, and decided after starting it up again, to nail it up the road for a little test, everything was fine, no light, no abnormal noises, a smooth engine! Final lap, same again, same point on the track! grrrr frustrated man!

    S o the return journey was good, steady at first until hitting the ring road in belgium where it was crawling through traffic at 9am, and from then on i cruised at a modest 120 give or take in order to catch our ferry. Firstly there wer no police the whole journey, and luckily, but bizzarely, no problems with oil pressure!

    So now im back in the uk, with a list of jobs on the car! the weekend i will be dropping the oil and inspecting for any hard cloggy deposits, in which case the system will be flushed and sump and pick up pipe off, again, and put back together with new oil, hopefully curing the problem, again. My initial thoughts were that the G-forces on track and the swishing of the oil around the sump may have caused the light and poor running, but a more logical explanation would be hard oily deposits being freed from the lining of the engine, blocking the channels. Trouble is all this work will only really be tested next time i go the track as thats the only place i can really test it and drive it so hard. Other jobs include a new longitudinal sensor, causing the ABS and ESP to turn off, which had happened prior to the trip, only now the ESP ALONE turns itself off upon moving slightly, followed by the ABS upon hard acceleration. So maybe a seperate problem for the ESP, which i will find out when i scan the car.

    All in all tho, a fun enlightening trip, despite problems, but then i enjoy the drama of it all, and cannot wait to return. None car side of the trip, the new buildings on the main road and F1 track are great ways to spend the day, shops, showrooms, and a museum, we got a free rollercoaster ticket valid until the end of 2011, as it still isnt open! The F1 track was open to public on the thursday from 6-8pm, although we didnt go, maybe this is a regular thing. it was 30 euros for 20 minutes track time, which is ok i guess.

    tips and hints would be:

    1. Don't go on the track when its wet, its not worth the risk, and you wont enjoy it, which is the whole point in it.
    2. Any problems your best bet is rollman motors in Adenau.
    3. Try to avoid drving in rush hour through belgium, this could make you miss your ferry, we did in the end, thankfully not resulting in paying for another.
    4. Try and go midweek rather than weekend, the friday was a half day public session, and thursday night people piled in from all over makin it very busy, unless your spectating, its not the best for going on track, the following sat and sun must have been chaotic and couldn't be much fun.
    5. We encountered no police on our abroard journey, maybe we wer lucky! But in case you do run late, its relatively safe to open it up.

    For my next trip, whenever that may be, i hope to have solved my oil pressure problems, but also upgraded my brakes! this was a very noticable area that needs to be improved, people hell bent on power and numbers have it all wrong until they go a track and realise. Most, nearly all the regulars, have cars with just tires, big brakes, coil overs and stripped out for mods, this seems to be an ample set up. I found the car was quick and fun enough, but brake fade was massive. So maybe just new discs and pads, or even a big brake kit depnding on funds. I may even have upgraded the anti roll bars and suspension, as this is whats important!

    I hope this post was entertaining and helpful to people wanting to go.
    regards Karl
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  2. DaveA3
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    DaveA3 Audi A-Trizzle!

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    nice read. glad you had fun mate. i hope to go one day!
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  3. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    I suspect its partially to do with the oil getting hot mate tbh... 1.8t's oil temps can run bonkers hot when thrashed without using an oil cooler and also remember that cornering will slop oil about something chronic without a baffled sump....

    1.8t's come with water cooling as std (sandwich plate above the oil filter) but its not that good at sustained thrashing...

    <tuffty/>
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  4. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    :sign_pics:
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  5. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Brilliant work Karl,the spinning off bit is not a good thing.:thumbsup:
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  6. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    Nice read, however I will add having a exhaust leak before the lambda sensor does affect the performance, and makes it run richer, you are lucky the car did not cat fire. I would also check my oil every 600miles or few weeks whichever comes quicker.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2010
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  7. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree. What oil were you running?

    5w30 is like piss water at the best of times, and when the temps start to climb it will only get worse. 5w40 is better, but still probably not ideal for sustained hard driving.

    For heavy use like that you really need something like a 50weight oil.

    The other possibility is that the oil pump itself is simply worn. You really should have changed the pump itself if you were having problems previously. The poor lubrication from running with a blocked pickup will wear the pump gears out, and it becomes less efficient.

    Get yourself a pressure guage fitted and find out what exactly is going on.
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  8. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    lol interesting time. Im going again in 1 weeks time.

    Wouldnt say dont go on in the wet. Just drive to the conditions.

    I have also never seen a police car on the continent ha.
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  9. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    i loved my wet laps at the ring in my s8

    passed everything which was funny as... lol
    vipers, porka's etc

    Audi Rocked - awesome tool, planted 'almost' all the time
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  10. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Thanks for your thoughts. Maybe i should consider an oil cooler. my water temps were at a steady 90 the whole time though, i thought that the oil was cooled to the temp of the water. unless the water temp gauge lies to me.

    I would post some pics if i knew how, at 22 i really should have better knowledge of computers! I didn't get any of myself on the track though which was dissapointing, nor any footage on track, i didn't want to get in any trouble! lol.

    at badger5....Driving in the wet just really had me on edge, i couldnt enjoy it tbh, but then im not all that experienced, maybe il gain some confidence eventually! What tires were/do you run to be 'planted'?? Im on bridgestone potenza's, i found them brilliant in the dry! Maybe i just needed to drive harder in the wet to get some temp in them.

    I've got 10 40w oil in at the mo, this should be ok, i also have 5 30w to go in if i choose, both to the vw 502 00 spec.

    Id appreciate if anyone has any thoughts or experience with the low oil pressure problems. It seems replacing the oil pump will be the best solution if all else fails. Just dont want it to happen again at the ring and spoil my fun!

    regards
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  11. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [​IMG]
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  12. finesse
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    finesse Active Member

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    excellent
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  13. finesse
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    finesse Active Member

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    nice photo
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  14. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    nice little report mate!

    As Bill says though, wet laps are incredibly interesting! Out there at easter I was able to drive around the outside of my mates in his remapped S3 in my FWD A3!

    Mananged a 10:00 dead in the rain at easter, and passed literally everything I came across.

    Dry laps are really where it's at though, once you start to learn the track it's amazing how much time can be made up without pushing too hard
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  15. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    ha that must have been fun to say the least, good time mate! i hope to go as much as possible, every spare penny i have will go into it, its money dam well spent in my eyes. i hope to learn it a lot more, maybe play a lot of gran turismo lol, and generally be fast and smooth. I MUST upgrade my brakes though, only real downfall of the car to me.
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  16. Jimmy Parko
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    Jimmy Parko Member

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    Sounds like a Hoot mate

    I have always fancied it and I'm thinking of making the trip myself next year. Good bit of advise there fella much appreciated and a good thread.. ANY PICS??????
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  17. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    i hope this works this time, only a few. my mate had a proper slr camera and took a hell of alot more....

    Nurburgring 2010 | Facebook

    Im quite pleased with that first one :) came out really well
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
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  18. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    My S8 was just on some pirelli p-zero nero things i think.
    it was slippery as **** yea. and much slower and tricky but so so quiet as everyone else was sat off track. more for me.. did loads of back to back laps.

    now in my ibiza, i would'nt have ventured out. too scary.
    the s8 did slide on me many times, and its esp had never worked soooo hard.. lol

    good crack tho, and taught me immence respect for that car.
    planted in the main

    Oh, and re oil temps.. you will probably be 120'c or more oil temps.. water temps are just that, water.
    fit a gauge and you will be shocked how hot it would be running round zee ring or any track to be honest
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  19. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    what would you recommend to reduce them, an oil cooler? i think i will be fitting an oil pressure gauge before my next visit, to keep a good eye on things to be safe. thats my main priority really, to be safe and make sure the car is safe and capable of the punishment lol.

    tire wise i am considering the new toyo R1 R's, if that is correct, a more road friendly 888.
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  20. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    oil cooler advised if you do track bashing a lot.. oil pressure gauge will just tell you when its failing not prevent it after all
    I run a 13 row on my ibiza 1.8t racecar and it keeps oil temps to 108'c max
    mocal cooler and sandwich plate with thermostat & getting creative on where it can fit and receive airflow will be an s3 game I think
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  21. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger Regional Rep

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    lol its true, the a3 performed miles better round corners in the wet. probably in the dry too.
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  22. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    you say your running 10w40 oil just now?

    If thats the case its probably semi-synthetic, which probably isnt ideal for a turbocharged car getting hammered round a track. Dont use 5w30 either, its just too thin.

    Get yourself an oil pressure guage (and a temperature one if need be, the A4 has one as standard, dunno if the S3 does) and you'll have a much better idea of whats going on.
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  23. S3KO4
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    S3KO4 Member

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    5w40 would be a better choice
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  24. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    The standard brakes are shocking on this track and I reported the break fade issues I had when I was there last year. You wont need to spend mega bucks on a big brake kit to improve it. I went back to the ring 6 weeks ago with the following upgrades and it was like having a completely different car:

    - Brembo max discs
    - Ferodo DS2500 pads
    - Motul dot 4 racing brake fluid
    - HEL braded brake lines
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  25. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    excellent bit of info there mate thanks, been looking into all of this, have also been wondering whether to go for a completely new big brake kit as i was unsure what sort of gains can be made from just disc and pad upgrades, but from what you've experienced those mods are ample! i shall most definately have a similar set up before i next go.

    one question, are the braided lines a pain to fit?
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  26. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger Regional Rep

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    black diamond discs and ds pads are a great combination, no conversion required. I have some part worn ds3000's which have a redicilous friction rating if your intrested.
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  27. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    arnt they the highest temperature rated, i've heard that they're prone to crumbling and excessive wear because they're that soft. i've got to put pads in that i can use daily and not last less than a month (slight exaggeration)lol.
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  28. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    is this the right code for the front ds2500's: FCP590H

    and the rear: FCP1491H

    not cheap are they :(
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  29. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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  30. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    ha. il keep a look out around then. i had no idea about this! enjoy your trip!
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  31. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    no they dont crumble.
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  32. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    You dont need to spend big on the rear brakes at all mate. Read the stick post about brakes in this forum. I fitted the standard discs and pads a la so:

    www.vwspares.co.uk
    www.vwspares.co.uk

    then just sort out the fronts as they do the majority of the braking.

    You dont want to get the DS3000 as they are no good for normal road use as they need to be warm to be at their best.

    I believe the braided hoses were a pain but I paid someone to fit them. They were unable to fit the rear hoses because they didn't fit correctly.
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  33. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    I found out last year and at easter that my 312's with black diamond discs and ds2500 pads on the A3 just wern't up to a full hard lap of the ring, they were OK for a scenic lap, but when pushing on they didn't last a full lap at all and really went off towards the Carousell.

    I've now replaced them with some Porsche 996 fronts, and I'm heading back out there next week, so I'll see how well these ones do!
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  34. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Yeah to be honest I was only doing 10min + laps, nothing special so I wasn't hammering it. So for those that aren't going hammer and tong like Prawn and dont want to upgrade the calipers you'll be ok with decent discs pads and fluid.

    Let us know how well the new brakes hold up Prawn.
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  35. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    See how well the brembo's do lol.
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  36. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Prawn maybe if you'd upgraded the lines and the fluid also, this can make a significant difference too. i suppose the porsche brakes will be well up to the job tho, well, better anyhow. im sure no matter what brakes, brake fade is innevitabe.

    Westle thanks for th links and info, most appreciated.
    I recently got some catalogues from my mates garage today, he can get me pretty much anythin for a reasonable price. But the catalogue i got was for 3G brakes, about to check out there site 3Gbrakes.com now.....

    I was thinking maybe a good option would be to get bigger discs, if thats possible, with adapters for the calipers. Not so expensive as a full brake conversion but better than upgrading to the standard size.

    anyone know if this is possible? adapters and bigger discs? and where from?
    #36
  37. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger Regional Rep

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    but their best is 2 or 3 times the friction rate thats required on the road. Work perfectly well for normal use... except they squeek and my neighbours do not like it.... at all
    #37
  38. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Brand new decent fluid and brand new lines at the time mate, the pads / discs simply couldn't cope, even on a much ligther car than the S3. I guess it really depends how hard you're going to push though.

    I only went down the porsche route when I realised that new DS3000's and black diamond discs was near on £400, for what's still ultimately a gay cast iron sliding single pot brake system..... No thanks.

    Currently running pagid RS19 endurance pads on the porsche calipers, and they're simply incredible so far. In my attempts to fade them over the past 6k they've simply got better and better as they've got hotter and hotter, I believe the operating temperature of the pads is like 700 degrees C or something mental!
    #38
  39. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    your tempting me mr prawn! they sound awesome, not to mention how they look. they're just expensive. im seriouly considering LCR brembo's, but ther is none on ebay, il have to ask on the lcr forum if anyone is getting rid. do you think they would be good value for money? or performance for money rather? with there bigger discs and some ferodo pads, braided lines etc.
    #39
  40. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    I have some for sale. :)
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