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Awesome Gti RR day

phantom Jan 5, 2008

  1. L60N

    L60N Guest

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    Im reading from this the car put out 250hp-ish & 280lb Torque. So where are you getting that your car is putting out 280 standard?

    Or am I totally missing somthing? :wacko:
     
  2. mitch78

    mitch78 Active Member

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  3. -Ju-

    -Ju- Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Audi S3

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    Awesome cannot measure flywheel figures in 4wd and the 8P's wouldn't run in 2wd (the 8L's will)

    As a comparison my 3.2 ran 200bhp ish atw
     
  4. phantom

    phantom On Boost

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    Thats at the wheels mate, the only true way of testing the power of the car on a dyno, flywheel or clutch power are estimated readings.

    TBH i'v hit a brick wall in converting it to flywheel power , as i don't know if transmission losses have been taken into account, and if they haven't how much are they on a Haldex/Quattro which is mostly 2wd , but still has 4wd running gear!

    p
     
  5. sat1983

    sat1983 Member

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    Phantom that pic of yours is my new background. Great looking motor!
     
  6. -Ju-

    -Ju- Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Audi S3

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    If mines running spot on, which I've no reason to doubt looking at previous 3.2 plots at awesome, then I've got roughly 50bhp in losses as an A3 3.2 is booked at 247 fhp. The only difference between my running gear and an S3 is the dsg box.

    What was surprising on the day was the difference in standard and remapped S3's. Peak bhp wasn't anywhere near as big as suggested over a standard car. This doesn't mean the car doesn't perform much better than standard as it's the change in area under the curve that makes the difference. But when you are paying for a map under the impression that you're going to get almost a 50/70bhp increase when you're actually only getting 15/20 it would make a lot of people think twice.
     
  7. L60N

    L60N Guest

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    Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I was like :huh:
     
  8. phantom

    phantom On Boost

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    So for pub talk reasons what is the flywheel BHP on mine and mitch78 cars?

    p
     
  9. -Ju-

    -Ju- Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Audi S3

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    Just think off any number you like TBH because that's what it is, a Guess!. Going off yesterdays figures, I'd say you would be looking at somewhere over 280bhp

    But then you've got the debate about the accuracy of the rollers etc. RR days are only any good for comparing different cars on the same day, same rollers, especially when the figures are repeatable between identical cars.
     
  10. dipstic

    dipstic Member

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    Most usefull test of the day before and after dyno,same car,same day,just different map :thumbsup:
     
  11. klauster

    klauster Well-Known Member

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    Before I had my S3 MTM remapped, I had dyno's done and my car was running standard at 282bhp, well over the standard figures Audi had given..
     
  12. dipstic

    dipstic Member

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    I assume that was based on guessing the drivetrain loss (most peoples guess on audi haldex setup seems to be 30-40 bhp loss) so your dyno plot was around 240bhp at the wheels?
    Did you have a dyno done after the remap?
     
  13. klauster

    klauster Well-Known Member

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    I had before and after plots, I dont know if they were estimated or not, but remember Kim at QSTuning saying that the stock bhp was higher than it should be.
     
  14. JohnS3

    JohnS3 Active Member

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    I wouldn't get to hung up on BHP figures, it's the torque figure that's important and the higher the better. :thumbsup:
     
  15. phantom

    phantom On Boost

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    So if the pub talk guess is 280+bhp how does that affect the torque? does that get rounded down too?

    p
     
  16. JohnS3

    JohnS3 Active Member

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    If you measurements were taken at the wheels then the readings at the flywheel would be higher or vice versa.

    You can use vagcom to take readings from the onboard sensors, this may give you a better idea of the flywheel to wheel losses. When I did some plots on my standard car I had 268 HP and 272 lbft or torque.

    My torque comment was aimed at comparing maps, but my fingers didn't get around to typing it!
     
  17. phantom

    phantom On Boost

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    So the torque on my plot upto 288lbft is right?

    p
     
  18. dipstic

    dipstic Member

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    As I understand it there are many variables when using rolling roads
    Ambient temp
    Stationary temps (my cooper s needed a big fan blowing into the front to keep the intercooler temps down or the ecu would retard the ignition)
    Wheel weight/size/tyre pressures
    Actual drivetrain loss (will vary between the same type of cars)
    Roller calibration

    I suggest that Phantom takes his engine out ,put it on a rig and gets clutch bhp output,then puts it back in the car and dyno it again,difference will be drivetrain loss :thumbsup:
     
  19. S3-N

    S3-N ?

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    The data logging done with vag com before my remap showed 275bhp standard. Seems like they are definitely more than the quoted stock 262bhp
     
  20. phantom

    phantom On Boost

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    I'm not hung up on flywheel figure , it's just i couldn't even TRY to explain it too the wife or friends who are asking what the car ran!

    p
     
  21. S3-N

    S3-N ?

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    So what did the GIAC Hammer map produce???
     
  22. mitch78

    mitch78 Active Member

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  23. JamS3

    JamS3 Active Member

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    This rings true with the TTS coming out as having 272bhp as standard....

    Looks like the Audi marketing department have been "playing" again giving the S3 lower figures on paper to what it really has.

    Anyone remember back when the first TT came out it had more than the S3 (8L) even with the same engine then all of a sudden they had the same power after a while....
     
  24. S3-N

    S3-N ?

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    If that's the hammer I wonder what the 310bhp map actually produces :uhm:
     
  25. RobinA3

    RobinA3 Well-Known Member

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  26. -Ju-

    -Ju- Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Audi S3

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    No mate only 4 S3's and 1 3.2 in the 8P's
     
  27. S3IZZO

    S3IZZO Guest

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    The revo map on my car produced slightly higher BHP than the "Hammer" map but slightly lower Torque figures.

    The real difference is the way the car drives though after a remap, it certainly feels much much more than the indicated 15-20bhp difference.
     
  28. phantom

    phantom On Boost

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    ^^^^^^Hiya mate, spin took me out for a drive ( he offerd me the wheel , but i said no " it's not my car " )

    It did feel faster , and more eager when he floored it, but to be honest it wasn't night and day compared to my car when i floor it.

    Me and spin were talking about trying another rolling road , to make sure these figures are correct , if they are i don't think i'll bother with a remap untill my warrety runs out!

    Thanks

    leon - aka Phantom
     
  29. Oli.

    Oli. Member

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    Some interesting results there. Like has been said even though the figure arent overly different - +20BHP +40ft lb - Its the driveability that makes all the difference.

    And on the subject of RR's, they all seem to produce different figures, so actual figures can be taken with a pich of salt - but comparing mapped to stock is very important - are there any actual prinouts/ploting graphs comparing this?
     
  30. mitch78

    mitch78 Active Member

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  31. S3IZZO

    S3IZZO Guest

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    Hi Leon,

    I did some testing myself on the drive back (turning Revo on and off with the Revo select device) and this IMO confirmed it was worth every penny paid for it.

    To be honest I was expecting a little more from the GIAC map in terms of numbers on the rollers. I would be happy to attend a different RR with you guys to compare :icon_thumright:

    Good to meet you all

    Jordan
     
  32. mitch78

    mitch78 Active Member

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  33. phantom

    phantom On Boost

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    Are you gonna scan your plot up Lee?

    Do you know the results of the other S3 , the red one? Louay? i had gone by that point.

    Thanks

    p
     
  34. Spin140

    Spin140 Well-Known Member

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    I think you would need to drive the car yourself to really feel the difference thats why I offered you the wheel, I've ran mine back on standard map over the weekend and there is no doubt The mapped car is far, far quicker, in fact very much night and day when pressing on. Don't get hung up on the figures from saturday - I'm not convinced there even worth discussion because clearly something was very wrong with the figures achieved by all 8P S3's on the day. I enjoyed the day and meeting all the Guys but am disappointed to say I don't think we got value for money on the day, RR days are always a little hit and miss figures wise and I was obviously surprised by the results but the lack of continuity is very suspicious, if you Guys with the standard cars want to go on believing that 2 reputable companies like GIAC and Revo can only offer a 15/20 bhp advantage over standard then thats your perogative but seriously..................
     
  35. N8

    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    Agreed. A mapped S3 should feel night and day. A mapped 225bhp TT feels night and day so should a new S3...
     
  36. phantom

    phantom On Boost

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    ^^^^^^^I hear what your saying spin , and thats why i said i would/will like to go on another rolling road with you to get a second opinion on these figures.

    I was all set to get the GIAC remap put on my car after you blew us all away, but it didn't turn out like that , so if the runs were correct ( still willing to go somewhere else with you ) then i have to way up the options.

    Thanks mate

    p
     
  37. Vtec Abuser

    Vtec Abuser Member

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    Really interested to see what another set of rollers say guys. As I am changing my mind day to day on whether to go GIAC Hammer or go with Revo again when I get my Ed30..
     
  38. N8

    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    Aren't the most accurate rolling roads the ones where they machine goes straight to the hub?
     
  39. S3IZZO

    S3IZZO Guest

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    Phantom,

    Figures aside, i'd urge you to actually drive a car with switchable settings to get a feel for it yourself. (You're welcome for a go in mine)

    Infact who cares about figures - anyone up for a 1/4 Mile session at Santa Pod?
     
  40. Vtec Abuser

    Vtec Abuser Member

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    Now that's what i'd like to see...:icon_thumright:
    I'd be expecting a mapped S3 to run mid 13's @ around 103-4mph mark..
     

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