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Availability of the new 1.4 COD 140bhp engine (to replace 2.0 TDI S-tronic)

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by sebtomato, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. sebtomato
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    sebtomato Member

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    [Jan 6, 2013]
    Hi,

    I currently have a 2.0 TDI (140bhp), as a private car, and need to get a company car instead, so the Co2 becomes important.

    It would seems to me that the new 1.4 Tfsi engine with cylinder on demand (140bhp) would be the best choice, since lower BIK rate than the TDI, and similar fuel consumption it would seem (but petrol cheaper than Diesel per litre), probably a lot less noisy/vibrations and working better with start/stop. Also, the S-tronic gearbox is not getting good reviews with the new diesel engine.

    Reviews on the 1.6 TDI are not good (seems to be underpowered), and the 1.4 Tfsi 122Bhp is probably a step down from a 2.0 TDI, and not very appealing compared to the 1.4 140bhp version.

    Does anybody know when it will be available on the A3?

    It's already available on new Golf GT (getting very good reviews), but I want DSG/S-tronic and ideally three doors, and VW only has DSG in the UK on 5-door Golfs, probably to avoid direct competition with the A3...

    It would seem that the Golf is also getting better equipments, such as the dynamic suspensions (no longer available on the A3), auto distance control, and auto hold function.

    Thanks,
    Seb
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
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  3. PjDali
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    PjDali Member

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    [Jan 6, 2013]
    Last time I spoke with the sales guy whom I ordered my new A3 SB through he'd no info the release date of the new COD engine for the A3......I'm not sure I'd have paid the extra for the newer engine anyway as the 1.4 tfsi is perfect for my needs, but I was curious about diff in cost, if it were just a few £000 I might have held off to order it, but suspect it'll come at a premium looking at VW Golf pricelists.

    I do wonder though at the sense in potentially losing out on sales of new 1.4 COD A3s to Golf buyers with the new desirable engine only currently available to VW buyers albeit in the GT variant at this point in time..........but I did notice the 1.8ftsi is seemingly not available on the new Golf but is on the A3. Suspect there'll be a sales strategy behind the decision :sly:
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  4. sebtomato
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    sebtomato Member

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    [Jan 6, 2013]
    Looking at the spec of the Golf GT, I am amazed by the level of equipment provided:

    Auto hold
    Driver alert system (detects tiredness)
    Tyre pressure
    Automatic Distance Control / Cruise Control / City emergency braking
    DAB radio
    Coloured information display
    Front armrest
    Ambient lighting
    Home lights
    Rain sensor
    Electric folding mirrors
    Auto dimming mirrors
    Parking sensors (front and rear)
    Automatic lights / Daytime running
    Twin exhaust
    Glovebox - illuminated, cooled and lockable
    etc

    The Audi now looks very expensive!!
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
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  5. PjDali
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    PjDali Member

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    [Jan 6, 2013]
    Must admit I've only priced up the A3 SB 1.4tfsi Sport against the Golf 5dr SE and don't think there is a great deal in it. The cost of upgrading 16" to 17" alloys and dual zone climate soon bump up the cost of the Golf......but then Golf has DAB Radio as standard so it's difficult to pin it down to the precise spec \ cost.

    The fact that Audi are offerring free SD Satnav on new A3 SB orders until February helps bridge any cost gap so I'm happy.....for me the new A3 wins on style and substance but then I would say that as a current A3 SB owner and I'm patiently awaiting delivery of the new model.

    Having owned a MkV Golf previously, I can only imagine the new Golf is a great motor....if it's improved as much as the press reports suggest through each generation.

    I doubt either car would disappoint
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  6. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 6, 2013]
    I'm seeing a lot of people commenting on how amazingly well specced the Golf is compared to the A3. Whilst I won't deny that it does have a lot of features as standard for which Audi charge extra, there are some surprising omissions in my view.

    The top GT model lacks Xenons, has 17" wheels with 18" a cost-option and, most staggeringly, doesn't even come with dual-zone climate control as standard!!

    There are also some features I have and love on my A3 which don't even seem to be available on the Golf, such as half leather/alcantara seats or any upgraded sound system options to rival the B&O system from Audi. Very odd.

    Overall the Golf will work out cheaper for a similar spec and does come with a good amount of kit, I'll concede that.

    As for the styling, are you serious?! The A3 came in for some stick for not looking much different to the previous model but the Golf takes the biscuit. It looks almost identical to the Mk6, just like a mild facelift! They seem to have taken a leaf out of the Porsche 911's book when it comes to styling updates. As for the interior, which some have said they prefer to the A3, sorry but no. It looks antiquated to me next to the A3, as if they've just breathed on the existing design a little and not really tried anything new. There's far too much of a "slab" of chrome/silver down the centre console and across the dash for my liking too, although maybe this can be changed as an option? Also, the screen is too low down. Having had my 8V for a couple of months now, and an 8V before it, I can't tell you what an improvement it is having the screen high up and easily viewable. Having to keep looking down at the screen is so cumbersome by comparison.

    Each to their own and I know many will disagree with me but we're all entitled to our opinions. I'm just voicing mine and I'm afraid I see the new Golf as one of the most boring, conservative updates I've ever seen. Yes you get a decent amount of kit for your money, but it looks just like the old model on the outside and unappealing on the inside.
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  7. Aidy06
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    Aidy06 Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 6, 2013]
    I currently have a mk6 Golf now, the 1.4 GT TSi. Went into VW to see about PX'ing my mk6 for a mk7, they couldn't get a price anywhere near what I wanted to pay. I paid 19K for my mk6, they wanted 24K for the mk7 with only a few extras and the 140PS engine which isnt as fast as my mk6 GT. I went to Audi afterwards and told them what VW had said, I wanted something as fast as my current Golf so I enquired about the 1.8 TFSI A3. I spec'd it like for like with the Golf I had just been quoted on and the prices weren't a million miles away and the A3 also worked out cheaper a month than the mk7
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
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  8. Spurrellian
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    Spurrellian Member

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    [Jan 6, 2013]
    I have to agree with vertigo on pretty much everything. The photos of the interior doesn't do it justice. I was dead set on getting the new golf but when I looked at both the a3 feel, fit and finish is excellent and I ordered one immediately.

    Interesting review of the 1.6 golf here. Guessing its the same engine in the audi. Nice pics as well :)

    2013 Volkswagen Golf 1.6 TDI review - What Car?
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  9. Spurrellian
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    Spurrellian Member

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  10. sebtomato
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    sebtomato Member

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    [Jan 6, 2013]
    I guess people look at different things:
    • 18 inch wheels: I had some of my A3 S-line and never again.
    • Xenon headlights: never had on any of my cars and never missed this.
    • Dual-zone climate: I had on my two A3s, and more of a gimmick than real requirement for me.

    I am just saying that, for the price charged on top model A3s like S-line, the amount of kit is shocking. Quite a few items are now optional, like hold assist or dimmed mirrors on all mirrors.
    Cruise control: optional
    DIS in colour: optional
    Parking sensors: optional!
    Interior lighting package: optional
    For cars costing more than £25K, this is just shocking.

    Yes, the styling of the Golf didn't change much, but at least, it does not have such an ugly butt now!! I would actually have prefered for the A3 not to change so much.

    Given the very good reviews the Golf is getting, I am leaning towards a Golf for my next car now, after two A3s. Yes, I prefer the look of the A3 (apart from the rear), but in term of confort, quietness and equipment available, the Golf seems to win. The only issue is that I can only get DSG on a 5-door Golf, and I really want a 3-door car, so might wait for the A3 to have the 1.4 140bhp Tfsi engine available to see.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
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  11. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 6, 2013]
    Sorry but I can't take any of those points seriously. You personally may not want any of those items or just be able to justify to yourself why you don't but the fact remains that they're very poor omissions for the top spec model of the new Golf and are things the vast majority of people would expect to be standard. 18" wheels are pretty standard for this class of car now and are what most people expect to see (and have little impact on the ride quality - it's 95% down to the suspension). Xenons are becoming standard on the top spec models, with the 8P Black Edition getting them and now the 8V S-Line. Omitting dual-zone climate control is an utter joke - I'd expect every model of Golf to have this, let alone the GT! Every model of the A3 does! I actually had to check that multiple times to make sure I wasn't missing something, it's such a staggering omission.

    You can go on about how much over the odds Audi charge for the S-Line compared to an equivalent Golf but then of course you're paying for the badge to some degree. I could moan about how much VW charge compared to Seat or Skoda - where does it end? You pays your money and takes your choice - personally I think the Golf looks totally boring and pretty much identical to the last two models, with a drab interior devoid of any imagination or innovation.
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  12. sebtomato
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    sebtomato Member

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    [Jan 6, 2013]
    18 inch wheels have no impact on the ride? What about low profiles tyres coming with those. You must be joking. Yes, 18-inch wheels look good, but are hugely detrimental to the ride, particularly on UK roads.
    Regarding the dual climate control, having different temperatures with 50 cm space between them in a closed environment is indeed a gimmick.

    Anyway, people have different preferences, but I think a £25K S-line should have quite a few items as standard, like cruise control or parking sensors, else it is just taking the piss.
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  13. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Yes they make a difference but nowhere near as much as you'd think - it's far more down to the suspension set up. With the same suspension, the difference between 18 and 17 inch wheels is usually fairly small - the profile difference with the tyres will usually only be 40 versus 45 so not huge. Regardless, most people expect 18" wheels on such a car for the looks alone, with 17" a no-cost option should they desire it. To fit 17" and then charge for 18" is rather poor IMO.

    Regards climate, it's not so much the dual-zone that I'm on about but rather the fact that you don't even get fully automatic climate control as standard but only a manual version and then have to pay to upgrade it to something which should really be standard. The first 8P A3 in 2003 only had a manual system on the very base model and even this was changed shortly afterward so all models had fully automatic climate.
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  14. sebtomato
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    sebtomato Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Apparently, the price difference in Europe on a A3 between the 122bhp Tfsi and the 140bhp Tfsi is 1000 EUR, so should be around £800...
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
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  15. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Just a few items of clarification needed. First in connection with the dual-zone climate control - every model in the A3 range does not have this as standard - it's standard on the Sport and S-Line but a £390 option on the SE (£400 on the Golf). Xenons are only standard on the S-Line model where you have to pay an extra £295 to them to be adaptive. The Xenon package for the SE and Sport includes the adaptive option but costs £1250. On the Golf it cost £785.

    From the outside I think you will need to and Audi enthusiast to notice the difference between on 8P and an 8V in the same way as between a Golf VI and Golf VII. As far as the interior is concerned it's down to personal taste and having sat in a UK spec Golf VII on Friday, I much prefer the screen and switches arrangement to the pop-up screen and centre console control on the A3. The quality of the interior on the Golf VII is equally as good as the new A3 and the SE spec on the Golf has quite a bit more as standard than the SE A3 and any options are generally cheaper on the Golf. Comparing the price as I would order the Golf works out to be £1500 cheaper that the equivalent A3, if such a model was offered by Audi, and as it's my own savings I will be using that makes quite a difference

    The other interesting thing is that my current A3 is a 2.0TDI Sportback SE with a 6-speed DSG gearbox. Audi do not, as yet, offer such a model with the only model with a DSG being the 1.8TFSI with the 7-speed DSG. On Friday I will be having a test drive in a Golf VII 2.0TDI SE with a 6-speed DSG gearbox!!. It will be interesting to see what options Skoda offer with the new Octavia.

    This is of course all rather theoretical at the moment as my current A3 is only 9 months old and I will not be looking to change just yet, but it's good fun comparing the various models. The only thing that is a Must Have on any new car I purchase is a DSG/s-tronic gearbox.
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  16. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    My error on the climate, apologies for that, I didn't realise it wasn't standard on the SE. Regardless though, for it to be an option on every model of the Golf is unacceptable in my view. As for the Xenons, I appreciate they're only standard on the S-Line but I was merely pointing out that, in this class and price of car, you really expect them to be standard on the top trim level, and they're not on the Golf GT. It's always hard to compare like for like with different brands of car.

    As for the styling, sorry but I have to disagree with your comment about only an Audi enthusiast being able to tell an 8P and 8V apart. Yes they're both Audi hatchbacks of a similar size but, aside from that, they look very different indeed and I think virtually everyone would be able to tell them apart. Not so with the Golf, which looks amazingly similar to the outgoing model, as did the Mk6 before it. Some claimed the restyling of the A3 was conservative but it looks positively radical compared to what VW have done with the Golf.

    It has been claimed that Audi wanted to target a younger audience with the new A3, which makes sense if they want to get people "hooked" on the brand earlier in their car ownership life cycle. I'd postulate that VW are doing the exact opposite - I think the majority of Golf buyers are older people who want something familiar, well built and reliable and not "different" or "funky" in any way. I think they were scared of alienating their core market by changing the design too much.
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  17. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Absolutely correct.

    I have 18" wheels on my car, and the ride is attrocious. However, I recently had Winter tyres fitted (Dunlop SP Winter Sport), which come on 17" alloys. The improvement in ride is massive - it completely transforms the car. I too would never have 18" wheels again. (They look a bit naff and chavvy anyway !)

    Personally, I think the Golf is much better value than the new A3. When I costed up the two cars with the same spec, the A3 was almost £2k dearer. Take DAB radio for example - it should be standard on any new car - and on the Golf it is. But in the new A3 you have to pay £305 - for exactly the same kit.

    As for styling, that comes down to personal preference. I think the new A3 looks awkward and ugly, especially the back, whereas the Golf looks spot-on. Of course the general style is very similar to the Mk.6 - it's supposed to be, otherwise it wouldn't be a Golf. But for me it's the interior where the A3 is truly awful. With those blingy jet engine air vents, it's very 1950s Americana. Horrible.

    Then there's the MMI. What were they thinking ? Have they not noticed the smartphone and tablet revolution ? When I sat in the A3, I instinctively reached out to touch the menus on the screen - except of course they don't work - you have to fiddle with the absurd twiddly knob. It's an outdated discredited concept from the 90s (BMW iDrive), and should have been ditched for a touchscreen.
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  18. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Different tyres. Winter tyres are far softer than regular all-season ones, which could have accounted for a lot of the difference. Not comparing like with like.

    Even leaving aside the question of how much the wheel size and tyre profile affects the ride, as I mentioned above, 18" wheels should at least be a no-cost option on this class of car nowadays. For those that do want 18" wheels, being asked to pay extra for them on the top-spec Golf is insulting tbh.

    They were thinking perfectly logically. The last thing I want is a touch-screen as I'd end up having to wipe the damn thing clean of fingerprints all the bloody time. The last thing I want is, after entering my navigation destination, having to wipe it off so I don't have smudgy prints on the display every time I'm looking at the map.

    You ask whether they've not noticed the tablet and smartphone revolution yet are just assuming that, because such devices are prevalent, it's automatically a good choice for a car display when this isn't necessarily the case.
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  19. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Well the Golf GT isn't the top spec Golf - it's broadly equivalent to the A3 Sport. The Golf GTI will come with 18" wheels and xenons as standard. But anyway, the A3 S-Line costs another £2150, so the wheels aren't free.

    And what about the lack of DAB, tyre pressure monitor, parking sensors, light and rain sensors, sat nav, etc, all standard on the Golf GT but paid for on the A3. Isn't that insulting too ? Audi are taking the piss.

    Almost every other car manufacturer would disagree with that.
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  20. number3
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    number3 Active Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    I thought BMW still had the idrive? infact i thought they had put it in standard across the whole range? also doesnt Jag have the twiddly wheel thing also Aston Martins ? could be wrong on all counts though lol

    what im not wrong on is, and ill keep posting until everyone agrees, is there is nothing wrong with my rear end!! lol

    IMG_0654.jpg


    :) :)
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  21. number3
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    number3 Active Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    .....oh and also, and I’m probably wrong on this too just ask the wife I’m never correct, but aren’t VW known for loading up new models to get numbers on the books, but then slowly dropping off all those extras, so suddenly you have to pay for auto lights, DAB, climate control, etc….?? wheels, seats , steering wheel lol

    .
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  22. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    No, that's quite wrong.
    If anything, the extras tend to increase with time, especially towards the end of a model life cycle. That was certainly the case with the Golf Mk.6.
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  23. Gazzz
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    Gazzz Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Am I the only one that uses depreciation over a set period to work out the cost of a car, rather than what the up-front cost is? Not sure which way that'll sway the argument though: Audi will probably be better than VW on depreciatation, but equally you dont tend to get any resale value on added options (so you'll lose money there with the extras you need to spec into the A3). I suspect there will be very little in it once that's all been taken into account

    Also, even as somebody that loves his gadgets. I'm sorry to say that I'm in the anti-touchscreen brigade. Touchscreens require you to take your eyes off the road for too long: you first need to work out where you're wanting to touch, then keep looking back to make sure your finger is heading for the right point on the screen. If you're doing something with a keyboard (input satnav destination?) it's an absolute nightmare! I have this issue with my TomTom right now (although I do admit that that's partly down to it having a resistive touchscreen, rather than the capacitive ones you get on a modern smartphone)

    Anyway, just my thoughts :)
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  24. sebtomato
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    sebtomato Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Most people with company cars will be leasing the car, and the value of the monthly rent will depend on the depreciation of the car during the lease period (e.g. 3 or 4 years).
    Therefore, it can be cheaper to buy a VW or Audi, even if those cars are more expensive to buy.
    When leasing a car, all the optional equipment purchased is indeed depreciated at 100% over 3 or 4 years (basically, they consider it's not adding any value to the car). Much better to get a car which has many options included (like a Golf GT) than something with less base equipment but many options added, even if the final purchased price is the same.
    Depreciation on the main car would be say 35% over three years for an Audi A3, while depreciation on the options will be 100%.
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  25. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    I think you would have the same issue with the twiddly knob. For any input intensive task, neither interface is particularly safe to use whilst driving. But for simple inputs, the touchscreen is easier IMO.
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  26. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Audi have been saying they want the A3 to appeal to the "younger" driver for years. Especially Audi UK who did not originally want to import the A3 Sportback because it would damage the A3s younger image. Now of course far more Sportbacks are sold than 3-doors. The problem is that, apart from company car drivers, most younger drivers cannot afford a new rather than used A3.

    I've have owned A3s since 1998 when I was 51. I am now 65 and must be getting too old for one although I like to think I have a younger outlook on things especially technology having been working with and supporting PCs for 25 years and still doing so in a voluntary role for a charity now that I am retired. I still spend a lot of my time using an up-to-date desktop computer together with a laptop and tablet. But to me the centre console MMI/pop-up screen set-up is a bit gimmicky and a step to far. I also feel a lot of drivers will end up looking down at the control when they should be looking where they are going. Although on the Golf and Skoda Octavia some functions have to use the 'touch' screen some are operated by buttons or knobs on the outside of the screen in a similar way to the setup on my current A3. As far a finger marks on the screen are concerned you don't have to actually have to touch the screen for it to work, just put a finger close to the item on the screen and it reacts.
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  27. number3
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    number3 Active Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    not just wrong , quite wrong :) , thats ok thought i was to be honest lol.

    But i gotta say joking aside, and rib me for saying it, i'm glad they are cheaper with more free options, means there wont be as many A3 S-lines about as Golf GTi's / GT's, and that makes me happy. :)

    .
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  28. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    That makes no sense to me I'm afraid. The whole point of the control wheel and buttons is that you don't need to look down, you just operate it by touch whilst glancing at the screen to confirm what you're doing. In this regard, it's far safer than a touch screen, which requires far more looking at whilst operating, or indeed a screen placed lower down on the dash, which requires you take your eyes off the road far more than a pop-up on atop the dash.
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  29. Aidy06
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    Aidy06 Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Is the MMI only touch if you spec the upgraded satnav?
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  30. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 7, 2013]
    Well I'm sorry but I don't agree. I'm quite sure a lot of drivers will look down at the centre console control wheel rather than just hope their hand is in the right place. The touch screen is higher than the radio on my current A3 and on the odd occasions I use the radio I can select the station or change or choose a CD with just the quickest of glances. Anything else, apart from changing the volume which is on the steering wheel, I would only do when I'm stopped.

    By the way what does the button, which looks like a complete after thought, towards the front on the centre console do?
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  31. vimy
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    vimy Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    Im gonna have to agree with Vertigo on the tyres/suspension point...
    My previous car setup had 18" alloys as is my A3, however the suspension was slightly lower in my previous car and I can tell you there was a hell of a lot of difference.

    (I'm glad I opted for the sports suspension rather than waiting for S-Line suspension)
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  32. Danny Fireblade
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    Danny Fireblade Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    I've been reading this and I'm afraid I also have to agree with Vertigo, I've had an S Max that had 18" wheels on, it wasn't harsh or firm as the suspension was set to suit the wheels, it was soft enough that my baby slept fine in it.
    Also I have a touch screen 7" radio/DVD player/sat nav in my van. What a PITA it is to use on the move, every movement the van makes it moves your hand so you have to take your eyes of the road to use it.
    Using the MMI is so intuitive in the occasions I've had chance to use it, it's the same idea as steering wheel controls, it allows the option to change settings etc with the minimalist time of looking away from the road. No one can honestly say that using a touch screen is safer than MMI, there is not a hope in hell of that being correct, however I understand people have preferences of what they like to use but not it being safer, or even easier.
    just my two pence worth, ill get back in my box now,lol.
    #31
  33. Spurrellian
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    Spurrellian Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    I quite like the rear!

    Nice Vauxhall numberplate by the way hehe! :happy:
    #32
  34. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    To the right of the gear stick you mean? That's the volume control and on/off switch, and also allows you to move back and forth through tracks/stations etc.
    #33
  35. number3
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    number3 Active Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    Id agree with the above, my dad has a touareg , with the touchscreen , and I'm forever pushing the wrong button due to my finger not being in the correct place that it was a moment ago because of the movement in the car!! Lol can be slightly annoying !

    .
    #34
  36. number3
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    number3 Active Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    i know , lol, I did rib the dealer about that quite a bit !!!!
    #35
  37. ChrisJL
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    ChrisJL Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    Hmm what does this adaptive give you, is it just that the lights sort of look into a corner as your going round it? I thought that sort of thing just had to be standard for Xenon's. Its a bit naughty that the S-Line looks to have it as standard, but infact it doesn't have this adaptive part. Yet if you have a sport model and add them on you get that as part of the package.

    I'm glad you pointed that out as I hadn't spotted that and its a little irritating too that they put them on to make it look standard but just take that little bit off. Good point really that S-Line is the top so really if Xenon's are on, surely the whole package should be! :mad:
    #36
  38. number3
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    number3 Active Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    The Xenons come with adaptive "up and down" as standard , which I think is the by law bit and as a minimum be standard on all, the looking round corners is the option!

    the list of options for Xenons I've found can go on and on, you can also get them to be adaptive to on coming traffic, adaptive to the type of road ie, whether its a country road, main road, has hedges lol that one was from a GTC I priced up!! Lol

    The most pointless one I've seen is cornering lights , where the car puts on either the left or right fog light depending which way your turning. I say pointless I've never had it , though I have stopped a guy when getting out his car to tell him one of his fog lights was broken!!! Lol he looked at me like I was taking the piss lol
    #37
  39. stevey_cam
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    stevey_cam Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    I've got these on my A1 and they're actually quite useful. They only work at low speeds for maneuvering etc. Handy for spotting kerbs in dark car parks etc
    #38
  40. number3
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    number3 Active Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    see now I want them lol, though what I am disappointed in is that my fogs are standard lamps so look really yellow against the Xenons !

    that may be my first job! Changing them to match !
    #39
  41. Danny Fireblade
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    Danny Fireblade Member

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    [Jan 8, 2013]
    i changed my DRL in my van to LED ones, massive improvement:thumbsup:[​IMG]
    I also had the kerb lights in my S Max, they were certainly useful at times, I think so anyway,lol.
    #40

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