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Autotech HPFP with Revo Stage 1

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by KRL, May 6, 2010.

  1. KRL
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    KRL Member

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    [May 6, 2010]
    Why?

    I guess some of you will be asking why have I decided to install an uprated HPFP at stage 1 as it is usually installed at the same time as stage 2+.....

    As most of you probably know I do a lot of logging my car with VCDS. As part of the logging I noticed that even while the car is at stage 1 an uprated HPFP would be of great benefit. A picture says a thousand words so here you will see what I mean:

    Here is a rail pressure plot of what happened with B7 on the OEM HPFP:
    [​IMG]

    Here is a rail pressure plot of B7 with the Autotech HPFP:
    [​IMG]

    As you can see the OEM HPFP is simply not able to maintain the requested rail pressure at B7 while the Autotech HPFP keeps up with no problems at all. This is why I have always run my stage 1 map at B6 up until now. When running higher boost it puts more pressure on the HPFP to provide fuel. This is because higher boost = higher airflow and to maintain AFR if you are flowing more air you will also need more fuel.

    Before getting the upgraded pump fitted I wanted to make sure there would be no issues running the pump with stage 1. After having spoken to JKM and REVO I learned this should be no problem at all. Here is some great info I learned from JKM:

    In fact REVO even told me that they think the upgraded pump will bring benefits even while you are stock!!!

    Here is a picture of the Autotech Internals:
    [​IMG]


    Performance

    I am really surprised by how much difference this had made to the performance of the car. It has never felt this strong! I did not do any dyno's but I can really feel the difference this has made and I am a happy bunny! I feel like I have more power and more torque everywhere in the rev range. The car feels far more consistent with its power delivery which I put down to the fuel rail constantly maintaining the requested pressure.

    With REVO the pump has allowed me to tweak the settings far beyond what I could run with the OEM pump. This will be a big factor in the difference it has made to the car. On other non adjustable remaps you may not feel as much of a difference. The car feels smoother at WOT and in normal driving. I have not noticed a change in MPG.

    The extra boost brought some more sounds to life from my Twintake and DV as well. The Twintake is fluttering more on turbo spool and the DV is making a more high pitched noise which is all good :)


    Sourcing

    I purchased the Autotech on a GB for a fantastic price of £246 delivered. The usual price is ~£350 and it can be purchased from Dubtek, Regal, AMD, Jabba Sport and the TT Shop to name few.


    Fitting

    I decided to have my pump fitted by the TT Shop in Bedford. They are fairly close to me and I have heard good things about them from other people (thank you Mr SteveP). They gave me a good service and I will happily recommend them to others.

    I do not think fitting the internals is too difficult a job and I believe that I may have been able to do it myself. However I could not afford any down time on my car hence why I asked the TT Shop to do it.


    Other Pumps to consider

    In no specific order:
    APR
    KMD
    AWE

    The APR pump is a full replacement pump while the Autotech, KMD and AWE have upgraded internal parts for your existing OEM HPFP. The APR pump uses the OEM HPFP as well but you will pay a premium for APR building the pump with their internally upgraded parts and testing rig.


    Plus Points

    - Car feels much stronger performance wise
    - Car feels more consistent performance wise
    - I now have far more adjust-ability and flexibility with my map settings as the fuel pump is no longer limiting me
    - Richening the AFR has lowered my EGTs


    Minus Points
    - Cam Follower Wear

    Fitting an uprated HPFP means the HPFP will be putting more pressure on your Cam Follower and will hence increase the rate of wear. This means you are likely to need to check and change your Cam follower more often than you would with the OEM HPFP. I intend to check my cam follower every oil change. It is no more than a 30 minute job to check. A replacement follower can be had for £26 so it is not much hassle. The TT Shop told me they have seen many followers looking fine with 20k+ miles on them with an uprated HPFP.

    My OEM follower had done 31.5K miles 12k miles of which were remapped with stage 1. This is what it looked like:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The DLC coating on the outside of the follower looks good. On the inside you can see that the DLC has worn away from where the piston of the pump has been in contact with the follower. The follower probably would have been fine for xxxxs more miles but I decided to change it anyway while I had the Autotech installed.


    Summary
    This has been a fantastic mod and one I would thoroughly recommend to anybody at stage 1. When I do eventually install my exhaust I will skip stage 2 and go straight to stage 2+.
    #1
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  3. waring192
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    waring192 Member

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    [May 6, 2010]
    Good write up there. I opted for the full Apr pump while going stage 2+. cannot say how it is yet as im waiting at the garage for the map to go on.



    Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk
    #2
  4. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 6, 2010]
    Really interesting read Karl, and not unexpected to be honest.

    The fuelling seems to be the achilles heal of these cars in terms of outright performance if we overlook the clutch/DMF!!

    Very well presented.
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  5. KRL
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    KRL Member

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    [May 6, 2010]
    Thanks Warren :)

    Fuelling seems to be the choking point power wise without a doubt especially on BT engines...
    #4
  6. S3 Rav
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    S3 Rav Well-Known Member

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    [May 6, 2010]
    Great information. Thanks. Slightly off topic but do you think similar gains could be had when applying to a revo'd 8l s3? (stage1)
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  7. *ace*
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    *ace* New Member

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    [May 7, 2010]
    i also had issue form the work go. the OE pump just could not deliver.
    Got the Autotech and she was happy once again.

    Good write up bud
    #6
  8. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 7, 2010]
    I don't think these issues really existed on the 8L. MK1 Leon Cupra/Cupra R owners used to upgrade the fuelling system from a 3 bar fuel pressure regulator to the 4 bar from the S3, but I'm not even sure that was a completely necessary upgrade. I just think the Golf GTi Mk5's parts bin was stretched too far for the S3.
    #7
  9. KRL
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    KRL Member

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    [May 7, 2010]
    I don't think the 8L S3 uses direct injection like the 8P so it probably does not have or need a high pressure fuel pump.
    #8
  10. S3RYE
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    S3RYE Interior Next!!

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    [May 7, 2010]
    i wonder of the whole problem with revo maps might get solved with the fuel pump :think: the pressure plots have made me think the occasional misfires and flat spots are due to underpowered fueling..
    #9
  11. KRL
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    KRL Member

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    [May 7, 2010]
    If you are running settings which are too aggressive for the OEM pump then yes of course this will help, do you have VCDS? If you do I'd be happy to point you in the direction of what to log etc. Like I said in the review my car feels so much stronger now :)

    I don't believe there are any problems with the Revo maps myself. I just think a remap will bring to light any existing weaknesses in the car like the OEM fuelling setup, valve springs etc.
    #10
  12. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [May 7, 2010]
    What problem ?
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  13. S3RYE
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    S3RYE Interior Next!!

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    [May 7, 2010]
    #12
  14. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 7, 2010]
    Almost without exception, in the 20 years I've been modifying cars I have NEVER found the maps to be at fault.

    It's the cheap and often badly conceived ancillaries (MAF sensors, DV's, N75 valves, fuel pumps) that have been at fault after further diagnosis, and not the remaps. When a remap works on 99% of cars, but then it doesn't work on 1 or 2, how can the code be at fault?

    What makes matters worse if we go and throw a mixture of other mods at the car which are not necessarily prescribed to work with the code, and then expect a marriage of harmonious bliss where everything comes together to work a treat.

    I now always try and emulate whatever mods Revo use on their development cars to mitigate any issues that could be suffered.

    If I rack my brains the only code related issues I tend to see are where Revo trial code has been loaded on a car, then other coding agents struggle to map over the top of it. It's always resolved, but it can take a few phone conversations to rectify in extreme cases.
    #13
  15. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [May 7, 2010]
    #14
  16. S3RYE
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    S3RYE Interior Next!!

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    [May 7, 2010]
    post 13,16,17 & 18.. :thumbsup: all been mentioned before, tried looking for the post but cant find it.... :readit:

    they are not massive problems, so much so i can actually live with them, more imperfections...
    #15
  17. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 7, 2010]
    Fuel pump should resolve your issues, if not, there are bigger issues at work here (valve springs/plugs/coilpacks for example).
    #16
  18. S3RYE
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    S3RYE Interior Next!!

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    [May 7, 2010]
    i know of the other issues, once i get my car back im gettin a sps switch, then im going to try and sort the valve springs via audi... hopefully get that done. If that sorts it then ill wait for HPFP untill i go stg 2+ but if it doesnt i might change it prior to TBE and stage 2.. just seems interesting how bad those fuel rail pressure plts were with just a stage 1!!:wtf: im also going to change the DV to a forge, guess is just a process of elimination, good thing is you need all the different bits to go stage 2+ anyway so all good...
    #17
  19. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [May 7, 2010]
    I'm with WarrenCox on this one mate - these will be related to hardware problems which the OEM map doesn't highlight. A more aggressive map will reveal latent weaknesses in the car. If it was the map then it would have to affect every customer as that would be the common denominator - but only a fraction of Revo users have a problem. I suppose the map could have been uploaded incorrectly on these individual cars but I find that unlikely personally. I can understand Brett thingymajigg putting it down to the map as he'd just had it loaded on but there's no evidence that the map is a cause - it may just be a catalyst for an underlying problem. The rarity of the issue supports the latter assumption in my eyes.
    #18
  20. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Well-Known Member

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    [May 7, 2010]
    KRL - thanks for the really informative and useful guide. Something else to add to the shopping list I guess!!
    #19
  21. S3RYE
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    S3RYE Interior Next!!

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    [May 7, 2010]
    i totally agree with you, i wasnt saying it was the map making it happen, more than its apparent since mapping the car. :thumbsup:
    #20
  22. Gryphon001
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    Gryphon001 Active Member

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    [May 7, 2010]
    running the APR HPFP at the moment... HUGE difference at just stage 1. I was getting misfires in cylinder 4 and dealer couldn't diagnose what was causing it... my cam follower was totally stripped of the black coating and had a flat spot, but they were too stupid to check that naturally. Bit concerned about my cam now but the car drives soooo much nicer with an HPFP upgrade.
    #21
  23. KRL
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    KRL Member

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    [May 7, 2010]
    Good man :thumbsup:

    How many miles had your car done for the DLC coating to have worn off?
    #22
  24. Gryphon001
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    Gryphon001 Active Member

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    [May 8, 2010]
    It was at 60 000 Km or around 37 000 miles. Been running APR stage 1 93 octane software for a year or more now. Went back to stock for the winter and started having issues almost as soon as spring came around and the car went back on the APR software.
    #23
  25. Brett Butler
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    Brett Butler Member

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    [May 8, 2010]
    hmm 37k is not very many miles.
    #24
  26. tobycruse
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    tobycruse Member

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    [May 8, 2010]
    I have just had the KMD uprated cam follower fitted. It could all be in my head but it seems to have made a difference. Had 4 people in the car yesterday including my dad (110+kg), going up a hill in 3rd and planted it, seemed to pull stronger than before. Could it make a difference or is it all a placebo?
    #25
  27. S.
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    S. Well-Known Member

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    [May 8, 2010]
    i have same problems as you but i think it's not the map that is causing them...and i think (hope) that fuel pump could solve them.
    just got my KMD internals, and i'm waiting for the Forge IC so i will get both done at the same time. probably next week. can't wait :drag:
    #26
  28. KRL
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    KRL Member

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    [May 8, 2010]
    If your old follower was on the way out (i.e) had a hole punched through it then I think you would see a difference. If the old follower was ok then adding a KMD one should not make any difference to power, it will just increase life of the follower.
    #27
  29. S3RYE
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    S3RYE Interior Next!!

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    [May 8, 2010]
    jealous... :icon_thumright:
    #28

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