Jul 26, 2007
This ones interesting...
Nice find jojo...
Just shows the advantage of 4wd off the line.
I wonder if things would have been different on a dry track?
You have to admit Ess, it's a jap car day, there was no way in the world the S3 was going to win... saying that, you could see what a boat the S3 was on a few of the corners, and the short falling in the brake department going into corners against the DC5 Integra.
You are also right of course, had it been dry, the S3 would simply be last!
it was the second least powerful there and the heaviest! but it held its own!
It was also a WET track, and the only 4WD car there, so I would say the Integra held it's own in the wet.
shows where the s3 faults are, weight, brakes and gearing! that said, you cant beat 4wd of the line when its wet.
That was a class video!
Interesting one that jojo! :thumbsup:
As has been said, the start was pretty damn impressive and certainly shows where the benefit of four wheel drive is. Given the lead it did have from the line and what happened as time went on it does show just how much grippier the other metal was in the corners though!
lets not forget though that was a standard S3, if it was a chipped it would have performed better, most of the other cars were in the 250 mark
That was a 210hp 15hp would have made a slight difference, I don't know if it was a facelift version or not but stiffer suspension might have also helped if it wasn't. Some cars are also better suited for certain tracks than others. A 210 and 225 on the road is hard to tell the difference but on the track it will be noticeable.
The S3 driver wasn't the best either some of those corners!!! I got a bit bored watching to be honest.
I really don't get the type R.
I have a 306 xsi (piece of s**t) completely standard 137bhp and I have never lost against a Type R and I have raced a few of them, I don't like to brag but it questions them in my opinion.
Perhaps the drivers I was against can't drive properly.
My mate had a 1.8 mk2 golf and finds it hilarious the fact that he has 110bhp and can beat a 200bhp Type R I think he said it all in the torque.
His quattro mb just laughs at them but then again its a scubby killer that car and it an unfair comparison, like comparing a VAG Veyron to the best production Honda round a circuit another laughable offence.
I have to admit getting 200bhp out of a NA engine is an achievement. The Americans are starting to and most European automotive manufactures are now downsizing and turbocharging a lot more cars the production of TCs is rocketing, several reasons I don't want to get technical, but those who use NA will have a hard time meeting the next milestone in emissions especially with NA engines.
The new Type R is even slower; I was a good 100m a head in my 306 after a mile.
I wouldn't even contemplate trying to take on an s3 in my car it would be a laughable offence.
The reason for this post is that I sick of my car had it 6 years to long and am very keen on an S3s.
I now hate French cars having owned one and done a few jobs on it. The build quality is what you paid for I guess. I have been looking for an S3 for some time I want something with the luxuries and comfort which doesn't have to be ragged to death to 9k (like a Type R) just to move.
Don't get me wrong I like Hondas my partner has a Jazz its great my dog has loads of room in the back and 50mpg on the motorway is great, and its nice to drive.
Someone mentioned stats 0-60s and 0-100 etc this means very little its mainly down to the driver gear changes, tyres pressure, amount of fuel last service and a million other things. If not all racing would be one race and that it.
I have to admit in the dry an s3 would lose the advantage of 4wd.
Was that permanent awd on the 210bhp s3?
Hi Jon, first of all, Welcome to the Forum!
Type R's are basically track cars for road use, at least in Japan the are, UK versions are watered down versions, using the Type R image/brand to sell a top of the range car. The latest UK Type R is 20BHP down on the Jap equivelant(sp?) and has a rubish chassis in comparison. What the video highlights is the poor handling of an S3 out the box, I doubt any of the TypeR's are modified neither, you have to drive one to know what they are all about.
Being honest and owning an S3 for myself, I think you might be disappointed with the drive, but if straight line speed/accelleration is what you are after, then the S3, in remapped form at least, is maybe for you. I highly recommend taking one or a few, for a testdrive before, but as for owning one, it's fantastic. Refined, well specced out the box and resonably smooth power delivery, as an all rounder, it's hard to beat.
what we need though is the first few minutes with the whole pack bunched together chasing the s3 again, but to the benny hill theme tune.
Thanks for the welcome.
I wasn't aware that the UK version had a different chasis and the engine was less tuned, this explains a lot.
Most of my driving is at an average of 15mph to work with a top of 25 if I'm lucky, I should really cycle to be honest but I get ill from the pm matter in the air everytime I tried that when i use an air filter i can't get enough oxygen lol.
I also do a lot of motorway driving.
It really for comform and to enjoy my journeys without a car that sounds like a baby toy rattler.
The video is a little misleading for the UK market as well, and it also kinda shows the equivalent less tuned s3 at 210.
It could be argued if the s3 was starting at the back would it have been there for the whole duration!!!
I see your point with a few mods a car can behave extremely different, ie lowered stiffer suspension and chipped its a different story.
All the tyre-R s I have been against I would very much doubt they have been modified and would have they are funning on a full tank with a passenger and a load of food in the boot.
Is mk2 must be quicker than the UK Rs? its fairly similar in a straight line as my **** I meant pug? Will let me know if the cars were at their max or if the drivers simply didn't know what they were doing.
I really like the new 3d diplay in the Civics and the inerior.
I haven't test droven an s3 or Tyre R yet. Unfortunatly there aren't any s3 that I know of near me for sale, I'll look in to this. abit more
I really wasn't going to bother replying..but since I've stopped laughing, i'll give it a try..
A Mk2 Golf beating a Type-R?
Which one...not that it matters.
It's fantasy stuff...
Same with the 306 XSI...
Sadly, you really need to get a grip, and drive a decent Type-R...perhaps not the latest, or one before that Civic...but a DC2 ITR or EK9 CTR.
But then again...you'd not 'get' one.
Having actually bought both an S3 (which I loved, despite people thinking I didn't) and before it an ITR, I can honestly say that the ITR is still up there with the best I've ever driven...911 included.
I've never found a Mk2 Golf...or even a mighty Pug 306 that would get close when the road has corners and requires chassis balance, perfect damping, perfect braking etc...
Don't get me wrong...Mk2 Golfs were great...in 1990.
The ITR was sublime in 1999.
Different set of rules entirely.
I can't even be arsed writing any more..
The ITR for example is not a perfect car..but as a drivers car, it's so far ahead of the others you mention, it's not fair to mention them in the same breath.
Oh, and on the public road, an ITR is quicker A-B than an S3 (210 or 225) once you get off the line...
On the track...it's just unfair to compare.
You'll heatsoak the engine, boil the crappy dampers and fry the brakes in 5 minutes in the S3.
The ITR will do it's thing all day...every day...perfectly.
Mine did..for years.
Ah...what's the point...
Well said ess_three i must admit my mates are all honda guys one civic jordan turbo, one eg civic turbo, and one dc2 itr, i will say they are all awesome cars the 2 turbo civics will kill my s3 once they stop spinning lol,
mine and the teg are almost the same all around he has a jap import running 218 bhp, and im running something like 260ish i wont know till the day up awesome gti, some part of me wants to sell the s3 and id buy a itr any day awesome cars ....
no 306 will get near any of the cars listed above (not even close)
I nearly got a scare from a JDM DC2 Integra(196BHP out the box?)not too long ago, his one was lowered and running some aftermarket light wheels, and I was 2 up running 19" rims with remapped power. I was in 2nd heading towards the redline, when his V-tec kicks in and he's making ground on me, even edging ahead slightly, so I'm thinking it's quick! But once I got into 3rd, I started to pull away slowly, but I decided to back off and slow down due to the silly speeds we was getting to where we was driving. At the next traffic lights, we both nodded in acknowledgement it was a bit of fun and went our seperate ways. So don't underestimate them.
If it's a JDM 98SpecR they have over 200 BHP on decent juice, I seem to recall.
Mine was a B18C6 UK 99SpecR and although it was supposed to have 187 BHP, it dyno'd at 196/197 BHP (the only car I've ever owned that was significantly higher than claimed)
Straight line stuff isn't the forte of the ITR though...they are quick enough, but show it some bends and it really shines.
Not as quick as a Mk2 8v or Pug 306 though...
Yeah... same opinion!! No way a Mk2Golf or a 306 XSI stands a chance with an Integra!!!! Maybe of the line slighlty due to torque but no way, Integra (the99 model) was known to have one of the best chassis at the time! Don't understand why someone said they weren't good enough... here in Portugal they are like colectors item, you won't find one for sale!!! They are all about driver involment... spartan interior but where it matters, engine, chassis balance, brakes they were among the best for a FWD.
That said I must say that the S3 is nice but it does not shine in any particular point. It is a very nice all rounder and I really like it. But it isn't a race car at all, it is a nice car made faster with some tweeks. I do not discuss value for money otherwise we would only be buying Renaults!!!
just one small point - in the opening "credits" (32 seconds in) where it's giving the power output and weight of the cars the S3's looks like it says 420 (can't read what) & 1460kg - so perhaps it's modified (very, very modified)
I may be wrong (and don't speak japanese) so please feel free to correct me
apples for apples.
got to agree with the most part of EssThree. I have managed to catch CTR's sleeping in the coupe and my current 2.5TDi, powerband in both cars was fairly instant. Then a few seconds later ,wahhoom off goes the TR and no cant catch it in the corners either. In fact never nearly bought a CTR before i got the 2.5tdi QS, Elise still stands at the top of the pile for my definition of quick wee car. look on paper the Tr's have all the same design cues, as mentioned by the chap just above.
Both are great cars, but comfort day to day driving and moving when you need to i would opt for the S3. Integra is still one of the best cars i have ever driven. if you think the new mini handles well, got to try an integra.
Ive owned a tuned mk2 16v, a mk3 vr6 and now an S3.. Ive not had a go in the S3 but my VR6 was one quick car, but a type-r would easily beat it.
there is no way you have beaten a new Type-R in a 306 xsi, unless my gran was driving the CTR.
i keep hearing things about these type r's and i personally think there so over-rated.some people actaully convince themselves they are the fatest things on the road.some guy pulled up next to me in one a few weeks ago and looked at me in my s3 and had a little chuckle.thort id have a play and i clearly beat it, and it isnt the only one that iv beat either.i do think the driver plays a big part of it tho.i ent gunna argue tho the engines in um are great and i think they are very well engineered but i just absolutley hate the cars.have a bit more respect for the integre's.
At the end of the day, Audi or Honduh.. I know what i'd rather drive.
Drive? Or impress the neighbours with?
I know which I'd rather 'drive' too...and it would be the Type-R.
Yeah i'd much rather have my honda back, over my a3.. other than the comfort. its much better.
to b honest everytime iv seen a type r ,the person driving it just looks so smug.plus there too common.promised myself id neva buy one.id rather have a s2000 or spend the money on an impreza or summin
Oh god , Impreza drivers are worse. they think there shi* don't stink! almost.. ALMOST as bad as 3 series owners.
Ive come across a few nobhead audi drivers (I drive an S3 before anyone starts!) in my time to be fair. not half as bad as Type-R/M3 owners though...!
Be the coolest in the gang, have a mk2 gti with VR6 engine.
I Felt Like I Had to add a post to this interesting thread as i've owned a 306 Gti-6 & a Rallye.
The Integra DC2 TR Is well known to be one of the best if not the best front drivers ever!
But to be honest a 306 xsi would have no chance against a CTR.
When i owned both the Rallye & GTI-6 i found them to be fantastic handling cars. The thing that really shined the most for me was the steering feedback & weight which imo is the best i've ever felt and thats even comparing it to my old mans Mas Gran Turismo,bmw335d for example.
Show the 306 some twisties and i don't think it would be far behind any Type R standard vs standard. This is from personal experience. In a straight line all Type R's Will Pull away,there's no doubt about that. Down a nice country road the 306 GTI-6/RALLYE I'm talking about (not xsi or dturbo) will hold its own.
When i owned both 306's i found myself constantly reading the Evo Mag's car ratings section at the back,re-assuring myself i've no need to sell by reading the comments.
I think it was something like: 306gti-6/rallye
+One of the great GTI's
-They Don't make it anymore
If i was on a budget i'd definately not hesitate to buy another!!
Wow, brought this one back from the dead!!!
I have now owned both CTR and S3. I always wanted an S3 when i had my type R but could afford an M3 instead so had that. Now i'm in an S3 and love it. I think on tight country lanes its a much more relaxed place to be than the balls out type R was and in the wet its far superior...Its wet all the time in the UK!
As for the 306's. The GTI's are great. My friend had one at the same time as me in the CTR, Great handler but slightly down on power when the straights got abit longer very similar A-B until you start talking about chassis balance and steering feedback where the CTR loses out
Chipped S3 is the way forward (when you sell your M3 that is!!)
beans.have them and eat them mate!thats all iv got to say to you!!!!!!!!!!!!a peugeot beating a type r???????????biggest load of dung iv ever heard.and to be honest type r's are pish aswell.there about as slow as a week in the jail.if you want a FAST car,be done with it and by a toyota glanza and tune it out its tits.i had(4 years ago before everyone and there dog had one)a 230bhp monster in a car that weighed less than a tone!i was beating evo's,impreza's,m3's.........the list goes on.civic type r's are probably the most overated cars ive come across.many a 30 year old man(along with there pompous birds) were left to limp away in there new £15000 civic when they tried to act smart at a set of traffic lights or up some back roads against my glanza.fuckin showing off bastards.haha
those hondas look nasty + sound ****, can't stand high revving cars
audi or nowt in my book
Civic Type Rs are good cars. My wife has one, but you really have to thrash them to get anywhere, like most N/A small engine cars. When my s3 was only mapped, the civic felt slow....
Now, it feels mega slow...
But got to say, they handle very nicely. And in the dry, would most probably outgun an S3 on a twisty road.
2nd post....and an Infraction for language.
Do you think you could try to add some form of punctuation to your posts?
That load of gibberish was un-readable...except the swearing at the end.
That may be the norm for some other forums...but it's not here.
Would Possibly Be More Suited Here: http://www.barryboys.co.uk
well i do apologise!
If only you'd left it there...
stereo typing is the biggest mistake you'll ever make, there are many reasons people spend time on here and these extend to moderators too..... now pull your head out of your rectum and apologise like a man
Separate names with a comma.