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AUM tuning R-tech

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by 1animal1, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 3, 2010]
    ok ok....planning time

    We will be wanting to get the best from our pending A3..... unsure if we want to go full exhaust, downpipe etc.... plan is to fit a nice discreet FMIC, some 18" RSTT's, 007P, LED's on the rear number plate....it already has HID 6000k's.... rear polo wiper and aero wipers, OEM later spec stereo to make it 'more' facelift, ambient lighting (if its fits this model)....and the plan was to go to R-tech who are apparently the only firm to offer a stage 1 map for the KO3s..... is this correct and will they factor in the FMIC were one to be fitted - am i missing anything more obvious

    oh and might also fit a catch tank owing to the latest fitting thread ;)
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
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  3. Sandip
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    Sandip Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 3, 2010]
    Tim i had a drive of R Techs mk4 golf 1.8t ko3s on friday, had a fmic. Think it was running around 220bhp but the torque was neck wrenching!
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  4. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 3, 2010]
    cheers fella, so what ya saying is that the fmic and R-tech map is all we need - how do you compare to yours?
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  5. Sandip
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    Sandip Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 3, 2010]
    Think it had te exhaust too Tim, compared to mine i'd say power wise felt the same, the road was wet so it was spinning in most gears, i was just amazed at the torque though, pulled like a train. Felt very similar to a custom coded lcr i sat in
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  6. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 4, 2010]
    thats reassuring, thanks fella.... ideally want a smooth map, especially with it being 2wd
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  7. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Mar 4, 2010]
    anyone got an rtech plot they can post up?

    ive seen the one hornchurch dan had put on his car (ko3s later a3) and it did look like a good plot.

    as far as i know its a generic map, but i cant see an fmic causing trouble
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  8. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 4, 2010]
    AUM is nothing special ecu wise.. most offer codes for this
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  9. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 4, 2010]
    Bill..... i thought with the AUM having KO3s attached, the potential from outset was higher than the majority of stage 1 maps which are tuned to KO3's - hence a stage one will only give the gains that a KO3 would get where as R Tech would be able to take advantage of the 'S' turbo without going stage 2
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  10. Broken Byzan
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    [Mar 4, 2010]
    Tim, they are certainly one of the only ones that have an off the shelf option to map a k03s upgrade onto a normal 1.8t.

    They are also very highly respected on the UKMk4 forums
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  11. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 4, 2010]
    AUM comes with a K03s already so maps done for this motor should be for this k03s anyuhows.. stage 1's and stage 2's depending on mods
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  12. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 4, 2010]
    Bill i have spoken to CC who confirm their stage 1 is set up in accordance with the KO3 which would assume that i would not get the full benefit of the KO3s unless we went stage 2..... is this not correct?

    ie if i went CC stage 1 i would get the same power figure from our KO3s than i would from a KO3 unless we went stage 2

    tell me if im looking at this wrong plz

    Tim
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  13. A3Tom
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    A3Tom Smell my finger.

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    [Mar 4, 2010]
    Pretty sure CC do a ph1 for a KO3s mate.
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  14. A3Tom
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    A3Tom Smell my finger.

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    [Mar 4, 2010]
    But I have heard good things about R-tech too so if they can do it with no strife then give them the job :)
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  15. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 4, 2010]
    nope defo not fella according to them...their stage one is the same for 8L A3's
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  16. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    As I have already said, AUM already has K03s on it
    Its factory fitted so anything mapped for your car is already for K03s

    stage 2 is an option depending on if you have suitable supporting mods

    How many blades on your old turbo, how many on the new "k03s" one?

    K03 has 12 blades
    K03s has 8
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  17. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    sorry Bill i dont know if we are talking cross purposes here, I know the AUM has the KO3s turbo and the differences between the two....i also know the KO3s has greater potential than the KO3 unit, what im saying here is that we dont want to go to the lengths of a stage 2 upgrade...having to replace the exhaust, downpipe etc..... we merely want to have a stage 1 map which CC tell me theirs is geared towards a KO3 turbo and so the same gains will be had unless i go stage 2 - my assumption here is that R tech will tune my stage 1 map to account for the KO3s turbo's extra potential from day one and therefore give me more power than a stage 1 CC

    stage 1 CC would equate to KO3 power figures even on the AUM engine (confirmed by Mr Silverstone himself)
    stage 1 R tech would equate to higher power figures because it utilises the KO3s's extra potential

    if this isnt the case, can you explain plz mate..... fully understood everything you've said so far but it hasn't answered my question - appreciate your help on this

    Tim
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  18. Essflee
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    Essflee Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    I'd of thought cc could just map the K03s to approx 205ish Bhp with no problems, I can't see why you'd need stage 2 to free up the extra power, if so then that is pants.
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  19. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    Thing is Tim, that's just not true! Mr Silverstone is clearly just telling you that as he wants to sell you the more expensive stage 2!

    having been in several CC1 AUM's, and several cc1 AGU's, the difference is massive.

    Both maps may well only request the same peak boost, but the difference is that the ko3S can hold that peak for much longer through the revs, and is still considerbaly higher at the redline.

    The highest MAF reading I ever saw on my KO3 was 151g/s, suggesting around 188bhp with a catback exhaust and induction kit. I also did some logs on Plunkys AGU fitted with a full turbo back exhaust, air filter, and FMIC, and that only saw 157g/s. I have a friend with a near standard AUM with CC1, with the same induction kit and exhaust I had on mine and that records 176g/s peak on the maf, suggesting nearly 220bhp!

    Whilst the BHP figures can be argued all day long, the maf figures are a direct comparison from one car to anther. his stage 1 AUM is really not that far behind my stage 2 ko3S AGU at all.
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  20. badger5
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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    Stage 1 CC will be a 1.2bar peak to 1bar sustained code as its std request.. their stage 2's turn up the wick more to 1.4/5 bar 1.2bar top end

    Stage 2 is more aggressive code which MUST HAVE things like FMIC to cope with the higher boost temps..

    R-Tech can map it to whatever they or you want, HOWEVER, turning the boost up beyond the 1bar levels gets induction temps hotter, beyond what is sensible on std intercooling,

    stage 1 CC will yield 170g/s figures as the K03s unit can sustain the boost request longer than the k03 can.. BUT the map for an AUM is for K03s.

    Seems to be, unless I am mystaken, you are wanting the max out of a K03s turbo, but thinking this is a stage 1 typical remap. R-Tech may not differentiate between stages as they have codes no dount and can tailor th etuning to suit the request. Turning the levels up however to CC stage 2 levels without the supporting mods, is in my opinion, ill advised.

    Do you have other mods on the car is a valid question?
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  21. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    yep Bill, im looking at doing an FMIC before map, air feed into airbox etc, just the basic stuff like 007p...also just spoken to R tech who said they would recommend an exhaust before fmic....whats your thoughts? im not sure how restrictive the A3 exhaust is, my methodology has been, fit fmic and turn the boost up slightly higher due to lower temps..... R tech tell me they will factor this in for their stage 1 where as CC want me to go full stage 2 mods before they will touch....dont get me wrong, i dont wana max the turbo out (sorry if it read that way) - i just want to get max benefits from the KO3s based on the mods im planning - essentially i want it to be more efficient power wise than a mapped KO3

    also just asked about my S3, CC wont touch it when ive fitted my FMIC (when i get around to it) yet R tech will give me a custom map that takes it into account (higher boost etc)- it is regarded that there is no benefit of changing the S3 exhaust under 300bhp isnt it? yet CC wont touch without it - dont get me wrong i see why to an extent, but surely there is a parameter they can use to map within to make the most of the bits im planning to do without going full stage 2 - as that is i beleive 'custom' also - well stage 2 custom ;)
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  22. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    that makes a lot of sense fella.... was hoping you'd pipe up :)
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  23. will.f_1.8t
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    will.f_1.8t Member

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    I want to get my AUM remapped also, if you could put up the prices you have got and any more info it would be much appreciated. where abouts is r-tech you are thinking about getting yours done?

    cheers will
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  24. bennojones2003
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    bennojones2003 New Member

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    My car is a remapped AUM, recorded 157g/s peak when i tested mine. How do you turn that into bhp? ive always used the torque value to figure out bhp.
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  25. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    No worries Tim, I'm more than happy to help out, just don't ask me too much about S3's, as I don't know :p

    Custom code phase 2 mapping is NOT custom either, from what james silverstone told me, it's a 'custom' map written to suit a certain set of pre determined mods. the map would have originally been written totally custom to suit a car with all the mods they specify, then that custom map is simply copied and applied unchanged to all other cars they map to 'stage 2' hence why they're so adamant about a set list of mods.

    I had this argument with James silverstone a few years ago, I asked him how he could be so sure my issue was mechanical (I forget what the issue was now), and not a problem with his mapping, and he told me it had to be mechanical because he'd been applying the exact same map unchanged to 'stage 2' cars for 4 years.

    RTech will give you a proper custom map, adapted to suit your own personal requirements. Nick there really knows his stuff.

    Benno: it's generally accepted that to convert MAF readings into bhp you divide by 0.8, so your 157g/s would suggest around 196bhp. it's by no means deadly accurate, but it seems to fall within around 5% of dyno figures when I run my car on dyno days, and having done logs across the whole rev range, and used a bit of maths to turn it into power and torque figures, the cruves generated look identical to the dyno plots I have, if you want more info on how to make a graph from MAF logs, PM me :)


    Also, to reinforce a point, whilst the conversion to BHP may not be 100% accurate, the actual airflow readings from one car to another can be used as a direct comparison for how much air it's pulling in, and thus, how much power it makes.




    I'm very much tempted to take my ko3S AGU to R-Tech to have them overwrite my custard code map, just waiting on a ride in Plunkys first before making my mind up!
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
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  26. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    well this will no doubt pi$4 james off, but to not touch it, if I understand the facts "fully" seems wrong. I understand perhaps the worry of a car coming in with x,y,z mods, which may have issues, as I get this myself and it then turns in to more than just a remap... by some margin often. maybe thats why its been declined, who knows.

    stage 2 is higher level boost etc where things like FMIC's will be needed.
    I know on tufftys CC stage 1 S3, the AITs climbed up rapidly, and thats with twin interoolers as std.. FMIC to me is ahead of exhaust on my "to do" list. downpipe and exhaust will help flow, FMIC will help control boost temps, combined they are the right thing to do.

    the boost request will be higher and on K03s it will be held for longer before falling away >5krpm where the turbos out of puff. The harder its asked to work the faster it will fall away in the revs

    what mods are on your S3 such that CC wont touch it? thats a bit weird.. is there a hybrid turbo on it ?
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
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  27. badger5
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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    what boost does yours run.. 157g/s is low for a mapped AUM - tired MAF maybe
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  28. bennojones2003
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    bennojones2003 New Member

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    Cheers prawn, that good to know.

    i did plot a graph using the torque formula and posted it a few days ago on this forum, I was a bit unsure if i had done things correct.

    that figure was at 5200 rpm in 3rd gear, had to ease off then. would you expect it to have gone any higher?

    Max 12 psi boost, but drops to around 10.5 after 5000rmp
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
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  29. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    5200rpm sounds very low to me.....

    My ko3S agu keeps rising on the maf readings right up to about 6700rpm!
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  30. bennojones2003
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    bennojones2003 New Member

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    That sounds about right then, I had to slow down then due to speed and other cars. What boost does yours run? and when does it drop off?
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  31. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    Bill all i will have on my S3 will be a silicone TIP, 007p, FMIC and 4" CAI..... oh smoothed out box and maybe a catch tank by that point...nothing more, i hadnt planned to go hybrid, do the exhaust or anything as im reluctant to spend money on a car this age..... CC wont touch it for stage 2 until i have a new exhaust too (cant remember if they said anything else regards parts) which ties in with Nick's saying.....

    anyway back to the A3..... my neighbour with the Seat seems to think a high flow CAT from exhausts UK (£200) will sort the most of my flow probs out....is this the case? he's a good mechanic but hasnt done as much testing as you chaps...also suggested a 4 bar fuel pump if i want it to 'pop' which isnt really on the list but hey ho :)

    think based on the info above im gonna go R tech, they only want £250 for the A3 and that includes before and after RR, they even offered to rewrite the S3 with a totally custom map for £300ish when im ready, started asking me figures im getting but i detracted as i dont see the relevance owing to the dyno lottery (he knew what i meant n laughed :) ) but suggested they coul still RR it on a 4wd Scooby RR down the road - forget the brand but again its not important to me

    actually saying that R tech did mention a group sesh of Octavias who were running CC maps, he said they ALL changed on one RR day to his because the CC map was to spikey?? not sure what hes on about as the CC map is anything but...which made me think does he actually know what hes on about - not sure who it was though

    Tim
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  32. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    Nick - you remember me saying my neighbour got that carbonio (is that the brand?) carbon induction pipe to take the cone to the front bumper? he just told me, cost him £33 off ebay - apparently thats a steal?
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  33. badger5
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    [Mar 6, 2010]
    i am not going to debate over x is better than y, as thats a waste of time and effort
    cc maps i have done a considerable amount of on stage 1's are not spikey at all..

    nick knows his software yes, as i know how to tune cars.

    i am sure you will get a good job off nick
    cc1 also produces the goods on aum motors out of the box too.. on their stage 1 code.

    good luck and enjoy your remap.
    it will be faster for sure :)
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  34. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 7, 2010]
    whats your thoughts on the sports CAT with the OEM exhaust chaps.... worthwhile? only mention as she doesnt wana go for a custom exhaust due to the noise etc
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  35. Broken Byzan
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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    I know on Tufftys BT S3 the std S3 exhaust didnt start to become restrictive till around 400BHP, so i imagine a sports cat and a decent DP should remove most of the restrictions without a massive amount of fuss and added noise
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  36. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    cheers fella..... i only ask as i think the CAT on the A3 is supposed to be more restrictive than the S3..... also its a bit of a weird one as most who have gone sports CAT will have a new system too whereas we are keeping the original on - mate says i can get a sports CAT for £200 from exhausts UK with a 2yr warranty - sounds cheap to me but if it has 2yrs W with it
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  37. Broken Byzan
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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    My 200 cell cat was £30 from ebay, ok i had to mod it to fit 3 inch pipe, but if it lasts a year its all good. Although i only have pre cat O2 sensor so have no issues with cat efficeincy codes that you may have if you go too "sporty"
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  38. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    ahhhhh...bugger..... i shall have to do a lil more research on this

    cheers Mark :)
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  39. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    it's not the cat that's restrictive Tim, it's the downpipe itself, on the A3, is really TINY, about 1.75'' at the tightest point!

    the thing is, the downpipe and cat are 1 part, so you need to change them as one.

    Shame it's an AUM really, as I've got a milltek 2.5'' stainless downpipe with 200 cel cat for sale, but the second lambda boss has been welded up for use on an AGU
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  40. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    ahhh ****, nevermind mate..... what do these go for? still weighing our options regards to this level of modding - also is it not possible to create a new lambda boss via the old welded up part?
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  41. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    well, I seem to recall I had a threaded stud screwed in, then the top welded over, so in theory, it'd be easily possible to just grind off the weld and unscrew the plug. I'll take a look when I go out to the garage in a mo.

    I believe they're around £350-£400 new from Milltek!!!!
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