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AUM 150bhp. In need of turbo, so I am upgrading, need advise please.

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Craig1.8t, Dec 7, 2011.

  1. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    Hi all I have a Golf mk4 I know im posting in A3 section but its the same engine lets be fair :)

    So my turbo has packed in and now its a good excuse to upgrade :) So I rang a company today who will recondition my turbo (ko3s is it on these engines?) Anyhow he said he can do 2 things, either Hybrid mine up or get ko4 internals in to my unit.

    Prices are 495+vat for hybrid and 650+vat for ko4 internals (Presuming it costs more for reprofiling etc) Are these prices good? Turbo will be like new when done.

    Anyway main questions are I'm going to need FMIC, Injectors and a custom map (I already have a 3" down pipe decat) What injectors will suit either of the turbos best? and is a £220 FMIC kit from eBay actually gonna hold up to the job? Where is best place to get the custom remap, I'm not too far from JBS Autodesign in Chesterfield are these worth going to with my set up?

    If someone wants to write up a what to do with ko3s hybrid and also a what to do with ko4 internals I would be very grateful.

    Craig.
     
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  3. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    some info I have done for SCN hybrid users here> Badger5/CRT K04 hybrid(K03 fitment) - Kit - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum

    larger maf (80mm/S3 one), 380cc injectors to suit..@3bar(S3/TT/LCR 210/225 ones) commonly used
    change induction to accommodate turbo.. (not all hybrids are created equal) as I saw on a poor guys A3 Quattro last week which performed like an avg K03s, from its so called hybrid spec! He also got fleeced from an ebay seller on the injectors, which turned out to be 250cc even smaller than his stock injectors..

    Ask what actuator they will put on it and what crack pressure it will be.. this is important.

    Hybrids I have used are CR ones, and FT also... expect to get a realistic 250-260bhp from them on std tuning, without wmi.
     
  4. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    Are there OEM 380cc injectors? Which ones are they if not which make should I get?

    If I ask about the actuator what answer should I need?

    What power could I see with custom code custom map with these parts?

    Thanks
     
  5. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    The S3/TT etc ones Bill mentioned are 380's hence why he said
    :)

    Custom Code map won't be any different power wise... the dyno result however is down to dyno lottery :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  6. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    dude
    I have already answered this... eh?
     
  7. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    My mistake sorry! lol. Yeah so what do you suggest with the mapping? It has stage 1 on at the minute.
     
  8. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    What answer do I need?

    EDIT: Just been on the phone to the turbo place, he said if theres nothing wrong with my original actuator that will stay on, if there is then an original actuator by KKK will be fitted.

    Should I get aftermarket actuator? Any suggestions?

    Thanks!
     
    #7 Craig1.8t, Dec 8, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  9. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    On a hybrid it will have to be a custom map... some call it stage 3 but its a custom map whatever way you look at it as injector and MAF scaling needs to be done and fuelling adjusted accordingly to ensure the engines running ok...

    A decent turbo rebuilder will fit a new one to a hybrid... typically they need to be a tad stiffer... 0.8bar vs the 0.5bar of std else boost control can be an issue...

    Forge actuators are ok but can be a pain to get right and they do stick a bit making the boost spiky which you don't want really...

    <tuffty/>
     
  10. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    VW Golf 1.8T Adjustable Actuator - JBS

    Is this the actuator in question.

    I want it to work so I would much prefer to have correct functionality of actuator while the turbo is off the car.
     
  11. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    Yes, thats a Forge one...

    <tuffty/>
     
  12. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    Ok so verdict is stay away from this? I'm still a bit unclear about actuator how do I know/test for 0.8 bar? Is there any other vag actuators that meet this 0.8 bar requirement?

    Ps: I knew you'd be making a couple of replies, I heard you know your stuff ;)
     
  13. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    Depends who you are getting to do your turbo...

    With CR Turbos you just send them your turbo and you get a hybrid back fully sorted inc actuator... its that simple...

    Whoever is rebuilding your turbo will be able to get an actuator.. if they can't then I wouldn't bother using them...

    <tuffty/>
     
  14. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    What is the contact number for cr turbo I will ring them
     
  15. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    #14 <tuffty/>, Dec 8, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  16. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    Thank you. So the mapping department what should I do? I have stage 1 now with 2nd lambda delete.
     
  17. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    Ok... having done a few of these now in K03 and K04 variations the answers fairly straight forward... you need a custom map once all the hardware is fitted...

    Bill @ Badger 5 has mapped loads of these now on Ibizas, Leons, LCR's and S3's and has lots of experience of these cars...

    If you are considering JBS then it would be their Phase 3...

    <tuffty/>
     
  18. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    You are my type of friend in this game top marks for you..

    Where is Badger 5 based? And what are there prices?

    Thanks mate

    EDIT: Discovered its in Gloucestershire (sp) It is a tad too far for me that. Unless the pricing makes it worth while?

    Browsing eBay and found this: FMIC VW GOLF JETTA MK4 1.8T TURBO INTERCOOLER KIT | eBay

    ^ Get? Or avoid?

    Thanks again
     
    #17 Craig1.8t, Dec 8, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  19. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    You spelt it right :)

    Yes, may be a way to travel but he does have a very good reputation with these setups (not just saying that because he is a friend either) and he has had customers come from all over the place because of it...

    Its your choice of course but best bet is to give Bill a ring for prices...
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/badger-5/139455-how-order-contact-badger5.html

    That FMIC looks like the same sort of thing a lot of the A3 guys fit so should be ok...

    <tuffty/>
     
  20. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    Do not base your mapping choice on cost FFS..... It wont likely end well.
    Stage 3 mapping for hybrid, which is £550+vat from me, so you know.
     
  21. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    Badger, 550+vat = 660 then I got fuel at 320 mile round trip. I'm not expecting a 200 pound map because I know the mapping market is a bit dodgy the cheaper it is.. But I'm just a bit reluctant to spend over 700 for just a map when I will be spending around 1000 to 1200 on parts .. It's a mk4 golf at end of day lol. Ok mate you can tempt me? What bhp figures are expected roughly? And at 550 will I be getting rolling road with that price?
     
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  23. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    If you are going hybrid then you have to have a custom map... its not an option mate.... stage 1/2 maps are designed to use std fitted equipment to get the best out of the facvtory turbo etc... the minute you change the hardware beyond the oem spec for air/fuelling then stage 1/2 will not do the job...

    You will need to change the injectors and the MAF tube to ensure fuelling etc is right for the increased airflow of the hybrid turbo... stage 3/custom map is pretty much the only commercial solution and that always comes at a cost...

    Bill will map your car on the dyno... thats kinda the point of a custom map mate... stage 1/2 are 'generic' maps designed for engines using the original injector/turbo setups... they are pre developed and therefore 'cheaper'... custom maps are typically based around the fact you have to spend several hours tuning the car live on the dyno to dial the map into the hardware you have fitted...

    The power expectations will be subject to various mods including fitting a FMIC as this all helps with the engines ability to produce and maintain power...

    As mentioned in previous posts, you can expect 250/260hp which is S3 mapped power...

    <tuffty/>
     
  24. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    I will have to have it done then, just may take longer to finish car now but oh well I'll use my dads car for now :)

    Obviously when I have fitted all parts etc, that car won't be mapped. Will it still be in a drivable state to travel 160 miles to Badger5?

    Thanks
     
  25. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    As long as you disconnect the N75 electrically yeah...

    As a piece of advice though make sure that the car is up together and service bits all in good nick... have seen so many cars come in that have things wrong with them that the owners are blissfully unaware of and of course this adds to the time and cost of getting the car sorted... Bill doesn't map a car unless its running ok first...

    Things to look out for and boost and vacuum leaks, oil leaks, iffy MAF sensors, other faults that have gone unnoticed etc...

    I would advise you to scan the car before starting the work and making sure its all running nicely with no faults (unless you are happy for Bill to put them right of course but this will be chargeable work on top of mapping)

    I know it all sounds obvious I know but it important especially if you are working on a tight budget to make sure the car is up together before you bring it down...

    Once sorted then its a case of bolting on the new bits (use new gaskets and sealing washers etc especially for the water and oil lines...)

    Good luck with it all :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  26. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    Its your call your money, your car of course. I gave you the price so you have something to work on. There will ALWAYS be someone cheaper... but making decisions on cost alone, is not wise. I redo quite a few peoples maps who have bought "cheap" and bought twice, and also incurred hardware damage from the "cheap" maps they started with..

    My advise is check that your choice of tuner is experienced in vag, 1.8t and hybrids, and that you get a hybrid they are familiar with. Its Very variable to say the least from what I see coming thru here.
    regards
    bill

    and all my mapping is done using my dyno.
     
  27. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    Thanks for the advice I think I will use you it won't be for a couple of months yet though. I'll contact you near the time
     
  28. Craig1.8t

    Craig1.8t Member

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    Just one more quicky Badger5 you mentioned early on in post "expect to get a realistic 250-260bhp from them on std tuning" What do you mean when you say standard tuning? (Your stage 3, my stage 1, or OEM map)
     
  29. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    Will leap in here... by std tuning he means no WMI or other such performance enhancements... still needs a stage 3/custom map... soz...

    Have seen 270/280hp on some Ibizas that have had quite a bit of work done including large FMIC's, custom pipework and water/meth injection (WMI)...

    <tuffty/>
     
  30. StaceyS3

    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Badger 5 is definately worth the trip i drove 180 miles each way and had to get the train the other way both times but that is after other tuners and company's making a complete pigs arse of the work that they did or just wasn't satisfactory (map)

    The map was also not a cheap flash one (£800) and was a well known brand/tuner but was running very lean and hot which would of caused me future reliability problems

    Bill has put a map on it that is now safe and performs well would definately reconmend him to anyone that is looking at mapping :thumbsup:
     
  31. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    essentially what tuffty said... wmi is water meth, and on the cars which have run this as well as their hybrids, we have got more out of them... so without wmi they seem to produce 250-260bhp and with around the 280bhp region, but these cars also have all other supporting mods of downpipes, intercoolers, induction etc.... the full monty
     

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