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Audi S4 Maf, Badger,Tuffty,Welly

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Andrew@A.L.D, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    I see that wellys and Tufftys Mafs are maxing out with there set up

    I see your looking at a S4 maf but which one will you be trying out?

    N/A 4.2L or 2.7 BI Turbo one
    #1
  2. MUSH
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    MUSH MUSH Developments Ltd.

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    Cant you use the s3 maf but in the 4 inch tube and scale the sensor parameters to suit in the map?
    #2
  3. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Not sure the s4 has a different sensor? Young the size of the tube is a option just looking into it before mapping
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  4. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    done a bit of research and here is what i found on the net

    S3 has a 2.80 bore

    2.7 bi turbo is said to be 3.00 bore

    4.2 N/A has a 3.5 outer bore not sure what ID it has but looks like it will be over 3.00
    #4
  5. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    I'm going to see the guy building that big turbo S3 in my thread at the weekend so I'll ask which he used on his GT2871R build. I think he may be going MAFless on the new build.
    #5
  6. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    RS4 mafs are good for 550g/s or 600bhp. So unless you pan on going over that you can use the RS4 Maf ok,
    #6
  7. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    0280218038 maf i used to un on my ibiza (max'd it) measures 77mm ID 86mm OD
    I cant for the life of me remember what model it came off.. anyone match the numbers to the donor? - S4 maybe?
    #7
  8. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    Application List

    Vehicle
    Year
    CC
    Engine Code
    AUDI - A6 2.7 T Feb 1999 to Jan 2005 2671 AJK AUDI - A6 2.7 T Feb 1999 to Jan 2005 2671 AJK AUDI - A6 Avant 2.7 T Feb 1999 to Jan 2005 2671 AJK AUDI - A6 Avant 2.7 T Feb 1999 to Jan 2005 2671 AJK AUDI - A6 Avant 2.7 T quattro Jun 1999 to Aug 2001 2671 AJK AUDI - A6 Avant 2.7 T quattro Jun 1999 to Aug 2001 2671 AJK AUDI - A6 Avant 2.7 T quattro Jun 1999 to Aug 2001 2671 AZA AUDI - A6 Avant 2.7 T quattro Jun 1999 to Aug 2001 2671 AZA AUDI - A6 2.7 T quattro Jun 1999 to Aug 2001 2671 AJK AUDI - A6 2.7 T quattro Jun 1999 to Aug 2001 2671 AJK AUDI - A4 S4 quattro Sep 1997 to Nov 2000 2671 AGB AUDI - A4 S4 quattro Sep 1997 to Nov 2000 2671 AGB AUDI - A4 S4 quattro Sep 1997 to Nov 2000 2671 AZB AUDI - A4 S4 quattro Sep 1997 to Nov 2000 2671 AZB AUDI - A4 Avant S4 quattro Apr 1998 to Jul 2001 2671 AGB AUDI - A4 Avant S4 quattro Apr 1998 to Jul 2001 2671 AGB AUDI - A4 Avant S4 quattro Apr 1998 to Jul 2001 2671 AZB AUDI - A4 Avant S4 quattro Apr 1998 to Jul 2001 2671 AZB
    #8
  9. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Probably an RS4 MAF here - part number 077 133 471 K

    Well, dependant on what the deal is with the scaling on mine...
    #9
  10. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    2.7 or 4.2 RS4 MAF?
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  11. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    My S6 MAF's enormous..

    BUT - remember the idle g/s from a small displacement engine on a supersize maf will be pretty low signal, and I wonder how stable it will be
    #11
  12. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    I think a RS4 2.7 one will be man enough for my 2.1 GTX3076r
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  13. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Just got one of these now, just need the silicone hose but i can't find any hose that has a 86mm ID for the maf? is that OD correct bill, may wait till i get it
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  14. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    86mm OD - rechecked yes

    I would confirm the sensor with your chosen mapper first... so he can map with it
    #14
  15. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    One last thing

    Is it the sensor thats the restriction or the housing ?
    #15
  16. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    http://badger-5.com/bin/published-bosch-sensor-data.pdf

    read page 54/55 on maf's and how they work

    sensor is a temperature device.. metal film resistor. it measures velocity, which is calculated into mass airflow by knowing the internal diameter of the tube it sits in.

    same mass air flow thru larger tube, the velocity slows down.. so maf sensor would ouput a lower voltage.. aka ecu would think a lesser amount of mass airflow went in.. Hence ask your mapper before adding something they may not wish to accomodate
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2011
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  17. BuuBBa
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    BuuBBa Member

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    So if I max out the S4 maf (337 g/s?) the tune would be based on map signal?
    Would I benefit anything if I use RS4 maf over maxed out S4 maf?
    #17
  18. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    MAP runs out at 1.5bar so don't rely on that.. benefit of using an RS4 MAF is that the ECU and VCDS will see true airflow... however its not as simple as just fitting and RS4 MAF...

    Map will need rescaling and compensation maps fine tuned on a steady state dyno to tweak fuelling on part throttle loads for a start...

    <tuffty/>
    #18
  19. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Welly is still on a s3 maf and he's making 445 bhp

    I did run a s4 maff but now run a rs4 maf due to my gtx 4 in intake and power level of my engine spec
    #19
  20. BENJAMIN
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    BENJAMIN Member

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    I'm running a S4 2.7t maf housing with S3 sensor. It's reading around 280g/s and made 405.8bhp on Saturday. The idle is good!
    #20
  21. BuuBBa
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    BuuBBa Member

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    Ofcourse the car will be tuned for the custom setup..

    Oh I did not know about the 2.5bar MAP...
    Is there any 3bar MAP that would fit straight to original position? Or would it be easier to plug the hole and take pressure from manifold to external map?
    #21
  22. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    What the MAP sensor sees is irrelevant in context as it won't affect the engines ability to make power or run boost higher than 1.5bar... the 2550mb limit is hard coded to the maps binary and cannot be changed without decompiling the machine code...

    Using an external MAP sensor serves no purpose...

    <tuffty/>
    #22
  23. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Not scaled then lol... S4 MAF tube should be good for 337gs (420 odd hp)... earlier S4's had Bosch MAF's and later ones used Hitachi... the data in the maps are different scaling wise and there is also an offset value to watch out for..

    AMK/BAM S3 maf tube runs out (in VCDS) at 292.58... APY max earlier...

    <tuffty/>
    #23
  24. BuuBBa
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    BuuBBa Member

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    Okay, I thought its the sensor that has 2.5bar limit.

    So professional tuner can make the ECU understand MAP boost pressure over 1.5bar?
    Or how the ECU can be tuned if the MAF and MAP is maxed out?
    #24
  25. BENJAMIN
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    BENJAMIN Member

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    Nope not scaled, was running an S3 maf and 550's. Now running an S4 maf and 630's, Afr looks good and drives really well. Could do with a custom mapping session but as far as an off the shelf file goes its really good.
    #25
  26. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    The ECU interpolates data based on what it can see... I don't confess to fully understanding everything about it but it shouldn't be an issue if your tuner knows what they are doing with ME7 ECU's...


    All that matters :)

    I really need to get mine finished lol...

    <tuffty/>
    #26
  27. BuuBBa
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    BuuBBa Member

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    Thanks tuffty, once again!
    I havent decided who tunes the car cause dont even have all the parts yet.. But at least one tuner (in Finland) has managed to get 600hp with stock ECU from 1.8t, so he might be the one..
    #27

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