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Audi S3 / VW Golf R20T

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by PNH80, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    It's a funny one this but i've just been reading up on the Golf R20T which will be released and it sounds very impressive on paper. I'm sure you're all familiar with it.
    Seems a bit of a funny move by VAG to be honest because they usually avoid too much cross over between Golf and A3 ranges (see the number of current Golf vs A3 threads!) but it is basically an S3. I understand it'll have 4WD (not confirmed) and 270 bhp.

    Again yes we know the interior in the Golf won't be as good but i think it's safe to say it'll be cheaper and lighter than the S3 and i will bet my house that it's a better drivers car in every sense.

    I personally won't be having another 'hot hatch' style car but just out of interest, if both were available right now.... How many of you S3 boys would save a couple of quid and have an R20T?

    No reason for this thread other than curiosity because a lot of people in the other current threads say they'd take a GTI over an A3 2.0T. Will the R20T have the same effect?

    In every cloud though.... Hopefully this 'should' result in a 300+bhp RS3 to even things out. Who knows!
    #1
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  3. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    ive been thinking about getting a golf for a while but hated the cheap looking back lights but i saw a new golf the other day looked lovely backlights are great i think il be going 4 door golf on my next car or bmw defo wont be audi anyhow just cos of the way we were treated :sadlike:by derby audi.... but i would like a sportback s3 :eyebrows:im a family man so it gota be four doors now but if i wasnt it would be the r20
    #2
  4. DeckedS3
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    DeckedS3 Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Ummmmm..... RS3! :detective2: My fingers are crossed!
    #3
  5. WiZBiT
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    WiZBiT Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    PNH80, Dont take this the wrong way but you change your mind like the weather.

    Didnt I read you were gonna buy an S3 not so long back? Whats changed now?

    Also, since when was the 2.0 A3 a hot hatch? Even in style as you put it? I think you'll find it in the "hatchback" section of the trader.

    Anyway back to the point, should the VW go 4wd with basically teh same running gear as teh S3, could you explain how its going to be "lighter than the S3"?

    Lastly, Put your money where your mouth is:

    "i will bet my house that it's a better drivers car in every sense"

    hahaha. purlease
    #4
  6. liam
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    liam waiting, waiting, waiting

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    I'll have a Scirocco R20T with 4motion please.
    #5
  7. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Isn't there an upper limit on how many RS cars can be churned out of Audi at the same time? They are currently doing the RS6 and TT-RS, and rumours of an RS5, so I'd say an Audi S3 revamp is far more likely than an RS3.

    The S5 has just had an engine change from 4.2V8 to 3.2 V6T. Unless I am very much mistaken the TT-S being a 2.0T will mean it is very unlikely the S3 with get the 2.5T from the TT-RS as they will want to benchmark each label to a limit.

    The S3 is fat and lardy compared to the TT-S and could really do with the extra grunt (I'm sure it carries at least 100kgs more)
    #6
  8. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Mar 10, 2009]

    Whoa hold on there sparky, little sensitive aren't we? Without patronising you (which would be easy), maybe in future read things properly before getting on your high horse.

    Firstly...Where did i say anything about the A3 2.0T being a hot hatch? (click the 'quote' button and show me). Nowhere. In fact if you look at the other Golf vs. A3 threads i specifically say it's NOT. I have had hot hatches in the past and i'm simply saying i won't be having another, hence asking if S3 owners would consider an R20T. Is that in simple enough terms for you? Christ.

    Yes i do change my mind depending on cirsumstances (as far as i'm aware this is allowed in the UK), car prices etc. I did indeed say that i was looking at an S3 as a short term option because i want to get rid of my A3 sooner than later. That is still an option.

    You will find that the Golf is generally a lighter car than the A3. The GTI is lighter than the 2.0T. The R20T i guarentee will be lighter than the current S3. Thats just an educated guess.

    And lastly yes i do believe it will be a better drivers car. The alternative Golf always is more driver orientated. It's built on a newer platform for a kick off. The current 8P platform is getting a little long in the tooth as i'm sure most will agree.

    I understand that Audi fanboys like yourself will get enraged at any suggestion that even other VAG cars may be a worthy alternative. But nowhere did i say the S3 was a bad car or had anything wrong with it! Quite the opposite.

    Toys back in the pram now buddy.
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  9. klauster
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    klauster Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    there simple won't be an RS3
    #8
  10. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Well not on this platform because i think it's reached it's limit. This is kind of my point, i don't see why VW would out-do the S3 unless they have something a bit special up their sleeve.

    Can't see any reason why they couldn't make the next S3 run along side the TT-S and have the TT-RS lump in an RS3.... probably wishful thinking though i know.
    #9
  11. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    and it is a shame, as with the R26R from Renault, the Focus RS, and the ever closer R20T Golf/Scirocco offerings from VW, now is the time they could really do with it. Problem is it would be stupidly expensive (£40k+), as it would be pretty bespoke (they just couldn't stretch that 2.0T any thinner), and as much as I'd love one, I'd rather have the M3 for that kind of money as the platform of the S3 is old and slightly numb.
    #10
  12. WiZBiT
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    WiZBiT Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    I took that to mean your current car is a hot hatch. Its a fair assumption to make?

    I'll ignore the the snipe about patronising me, simply because we are chatting over the internet, and for you to patronise me would be rather difficult. I.e. What you say will have little or no effect.

    Can you show me these obvious weight differences between a 2wd a3, and 2wd golf please

    In future please dont waste our time posting about advising you which model year and what extras to spec on your s3 when youve got no intention of buying one.

    I'm not a Fanboy, I own 3 cars, one of which happens to be an Audi.

    Re-reading your post, and now your reply, its obvious your stoking a fire, but also, its obvious your a dreamer/tyre kicker.

    Cheers
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  13. WiZBiT
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    WiZBiT Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]

    Too true,

    The S3 was punching above its weight back in the day, but now it's looking slightly tired against the competition in the style/performance stakes..
    #12
  14. firebobby
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    firebobby Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Now! Now! Boys play nicely, or you'll both sit in the naughty corner...
    dave
    #13
  15. biggiep
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    biggiep Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    I have to say I think the Scirocco is a huge let down in the flesh, very ugly indeed. I don't think I'd buy a R20T over an S3 unless I couldn't afford the S3, the residuals will be higher and its just a lovely place to be.

    If you go off the mentality of well its that same but cheaper then everyone would be driving cupras or vRS' but the fact is that most people want the prestige of those 4 lovely rings on the front. If you don't then buy another make or whatever your happy with. I think the S3 is more of a classy speedy coupe not a raw hot hatch.

    So to answer the question no I would not even consider an R20T if I was in a position to afford an S3.
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  16. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    But what 'IF' the Golf was a more fun car to drive...or regarded as being a 'better' drivers car?
    If you wanted a fun car, at the expense of the luxury/prestige aspect then surely you'd take the Golf (the 'you' I use not meaning specifically you directly BTW)The decision will have nothing to do with if you can afford the extra, or not.
    I find it hard to believe that someone looking to spend £24000 can't stretch to £27-28000 if the car is really that much better.

    Following your reasoning, people buy a Golf GTI because thay can't afford an A3 2.0 TFSI? That's bullshit...


    You know something...
    That is so far from the truth, and so patronising that I have no desire to own another Audi until people like you get bored of their latest fashion statement car and move onto something else.
    I couldn't give a toss what the badge is...and the thought of buying an Audi because I "want the prestige of those 4 lovely rings on the front" is laughable.
    Oh my god...some people.
    #15
  17. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    If there had been a Haldex 4wd car elsewhere in the VAG range that didn't feel cheap inside, I have to say I would have gone there.

    I'm not really that bothered by the Audi badge personally, and was going to buy a Leon Cupra. However the dashboard was so woeful I went to look at the Golf. At that time there was no Ed30, so when I'd seen beyond the magazine over-hype I went to look at the Audi S3 / TT 2.0T. The TT 200PS was too slow, and the S3 was quick enough, but just a lovely place to sit. To me what I thought I wanted (near 300bhp & Haldex), became incidental to the fact I loved the interior of the S3. It felt special inside and somewhere that actually felt like its cabin reflected the cost of the car.

    To me a badge is a badge. And to bear that out I know mates who have better dealer service from Skoda than I've had from Audi.
    #16
  18. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    I do.
    I get superb service from my local Skoda dealer, I got good service from the local VW dealer...but the Audi dealer was a disgrace.

    Hell, what do I know though...I only have a Skoda as I can't afford 4 rings on my grille.
    #17
  19. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    The mini statement under my username has never been an unsubstantiated accident.

    From my childhood of the 80's I've always aspired to own an Audi Quattro (since my love of the Group B rally Audi's).

    Finally I got my wish (albeit with Haldex), and they say never meet your heros. They are right!!

    The product is not particularly reliable, the dealers are a shambles, and because Audi are currently riding a wave of popularity with sales figures in excess of Merc & BMW they think they are faultless. Their abhorrent arrogance could be their undoing. I have never encountered such ignorance in a dealer service group as I have at Audi. They know next to nothing without a fault code.

    I love my car as it's generally very nice, but when you pay what you do for it to do anything else would leave a very sour taste in your mouth.

    I love the design as much as anything, certainly not the label, but I would be incredibly hard pressed to buy another Audi as I have no confidence in the after sales. To be fair from the moment I engaged with Audi I feel I have had to guide them to help me from the beginning (even arguing to prove with my dealer that adaptive lights and bluetooth were an available option on the S3!). Its been a catalogue of disasters TBH, and the fact I'm still in an S3 is a miracle as many times I've just wanted to sell it off an buy something else. Problem is I just like it so much when it works. Jack of all trades, master of none.
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  20. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Mar 10, 2009]

    Wow you really are easily offended and almost slightly bitter about something.

    I'll keep it short... 1. No that was not a fair assumption to make, you were too lazy to read my thread properly. Just admit it, it's cool.
    2. The Golf GTI is a lighter car than the A3 2.0T, this is a fact, look it up. Or are you too lazy to do that as well?
    3. Again you choose not to read things properly. I said...An S3 is still a possibility. Mainly as a stop gap before i get my next car later this year which will be either an M3 or a 55 reg Carrera. Stay tuned....We'll see who's a tyre kicker.

    and ..4. A dreamer? No sir. Just asking for opinions on a Golf LOL.

    You make a lot of assumptions and do a lot of guessing yet still seem to get everything wrong.... Are you Derek Acorah??
    #19
  21. HotboxDeluxe
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    HotboxDeluxe automatic

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    I personally couldn't care less about the badge - as long as it's a German car :salute:
    Audi prestige? I'm not sure, but isn't it turning into a tosser's badge like what happened to BMW in the 80s? I ended up in an A3 because it was my dad's old company car and I got it cheap at the end of his lease. I prefer it to the equivalent Golf, not because of the rings, just because personally I think the Mk5 Golf isn't the nicest looking thing. If I was choosing a car from scratch now then I'd consider 4 or 5 German marques (or a Skoda, no lie! german enough for me).
    As it is, I've promised myself a new car in 2 years time, probably a "poshness bracket" or 2 up from the A3. Theres a couple of Audis in the shortlist but finding equal favour with stuff from VW, Mercedes, and BMW. I'd love a Porker but I need back seats and a 911 probably doesn't come into it, financially. And you'd need to shoot me before I get into a Cayenne diesel :laugh:

    4wd, turbo Golf, you say? Hmm...also interesting!
    #20
  22. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Like the man said.:salute:
    #21
  23. WiZBiT
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    WiZBiT Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    [​IMG]
    #22
  24. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    oh dear..... I get the fact you two aren't going to see eye to eye on this.

    Whilst it's none of my business, and in the broader scheme of things it doesn't really affect me, isn't this the point where you agree to disagree and unlock horns? In my eyes neither of you have anything to prove. You can sling all the $hit in the world in any direction and it won't necessarily change a thing for the better.

    For the sake of the quality of the forum, and the enjoyment of its users you could always 'celebrate your differences' rather than rutting like stags about them.

    We've got enough fight on our hands just dealing with Audi UK, rather than pciking at each other!!!

    Cheers, and no offense meant.
    #23
  25. S3-Dan
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    S3-Dan Quattro

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    :arco::applaus:
    oh man this is the funniest thread iv ever been through haha im in stitches u ALL make such good points but ''each to their own'' should close it off dont u think ??
    and my personal views on it are..........Audi of course, iv been in golfs etc and seats and to be fair VAG have got them all lined up perfectly in order if u ask me seats are cheap VW are nice and Audi are up there if u have the cash u pay for what u get (except for service as some people pointed out) but i recently had mine in and got the best service iv ever had in my life car was picked up and delivered back within 24 hours with a new clutch...faultless
    altho they polished it with a brillo pad and i now need to buff the whole car :banghead: nevermind i had it on the list anyways still not so happy but hey !
    #24
  26. biggiep
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    biggiep Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]

    I had three Fabia vRS and loved them because they were fun but I didnt get an a3 2.0 TDi to replace it because I thought it would be the same car I wanted something which was a nicer place to sit (and yes I had an SE fabia no.158). What I'm saying is that there is a lot of weight with a badge when the car backs it up.

    Why make it personal and say oh my god some people, you don't know me and if you said that to my face then thats fair do's you'd have to have some big stones but why on here? Why do you think your view is more important than others my god some people pffft lol. If the GTi is such a much better drivers car and people don't care about having an audi interior and it not being quite as hot hatch like then why dont Audi stop selling cars?

    What I was trying to say is that its for exactly the fact that the S3 is less fun is exactly why some people will buy it. I didnt say all of them will but if you want a pure drivers car then you wouldn't bother with the R20T or anything VAG you'd have a second hand lotus elise? Or is that because you know the golf will last longer? Or is that then not about badge?

    I personally find Blackburn Audi to be a massive improvement on Simpsons Skoda who never ring back and can only be described as lazy. Tom at Woodheads skoda in Blackpool was fantastic before it got closed in fairness and they are much better on warranty claims.

    As with everything its personal choice and I have no problem with people having different views there just is no need to make it personal. I was generalising because thats in my opinion about the long and short of it from looking in most of the threads.

    Don't hate the player, hate the game!
    #25
  27. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Ooh...i'm scared!
    I'd have no hesitation in saying to your face, what I write on here, I can assure you of that.

    This statement:
    Is what grips my ****.

    I have no desire to have anything in common with someone who announces something like that.
    Rest assured...I for one, can do without the 'prestige' (Ha!) of those "4 lovely rings on the front".


    I think no such thing...but I seem to recall I have the right to not agree and to post my comments too?
    All are valid...but those comments that suggest that the owner has in some way 'come good' because they have the "prestige of those 4 lovely rings on the front" is pretty sad to me.


    Maybe because Audi build A3s that are not aimed directly at the Golf GTI...and expect their customers to be clever enough to work that out for themselves and buy them for different reasons?


    Or would it be that you can't get in and out of an Elise without making a prat of yourself, because they leak, and because if you hit anything bigger than a dog, you come off worst?
    What if you need to be able to put people in the back every now and then?
    Elise?...er, no.


    You are welcome to post your opinions as you see fit, but please don't ever assume that I fit into your generalisation of what people want:
    #26
  28. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    You can't beat a good cross-brand comparison thread. There was a Leon Cupra vs R32 thread on SeatCupra.net the other day and that generated some equally passionate views.

    My take is that there is no law that says anyone has to agree on anything (makes the world a much more colorful place). That said, we can all respect the fact that each of us is 'entitled' to a point of view whether we agree with it or not.
    #27
  29. biggiep
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    biggiep Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    But thats precisely what I mean that I didn't say that you fit into that type of customer, but if you read the majority of the threads on here people are generally looking for a more upmarket golf if they want an A3. Most threads which have comparisons always boil down to it being a nicer place to be.

    I don't even disagree with your point I have had my time in Skoda's and golfs and a bora. The only thing that got my goat is that you had to say oh my god some people when from reading the threads in this section thats the general consensus that comes out wouldn't you agree? Just read how many people put its the interior and the residuals, thats all part of the brand just like mercedes still hold their value well regardless if there are better made budget cars than their slipping standards (although slightly better recently).

    All i'm saying is that there is no need to be condescending just say what you feel like "I don't really agree with that because i think such and such" then there is no beef, but there simply was no reason to put oh my god some people because I did not say that every person was like that and never would.

    We all know there are more focused cars out there, better 0-60 times, ones which do a nurburgring lap 3 seconds quicker but what gets us to buy a car is more often than not the make. If it wasn't there wouldnt be a need for an Audi forum it would be a VAG forum or fast cars forum.
    #28
  30. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Brilliant fun this thread.
    More please.
    #29
  31. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    audi dealers suck i wont buy audi again just because of that there attitude stinks and any more of it this arguing im a fill you all in lol joke .... im going bmw i reckon id love to stay with audi but i had such a bad experience i wana blow every audi garage up no front armrest no back armrest charged me 150 which i though was for an i pod dock all they done is throw a shitty lead in and get this the day the car was delivered i watched the driver pull up and scrape the alloy down the kerb he put it on paper it was his fault and when we phoned audi derby they just ignored us so audi is finished with us there stuck up tits and what makes me laugh they barely show you respect unless buying sumut over 50 grand and most of em are driving to work in whack cars and they've got the audacity to look down on you i hope derby Audi implodes after all that id have the r20t golf lol if they do a four door
    #30
  32. Ash B
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    Ash B Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Now my non-useful input on this topic:)....

    Would like to see what that car looked like before i decided. But i got my heart set on a s3 next so doubt i would even consider any thing else. At the moment every thing good with audi, and i know my next 2 cars will 100% an audi.

    But After Sale/Service is SH*T. I got better service when i went to bmw, vauxhall and ford than i do at my local audi! Bridgend aka Sinclair audi have bougth my hopes/faith back up and so not all audi service's are arseholes! :) But i enjoying driving the cars, they way they look inside and out so S3 or another audi it is for me 100%.

    Not really a fan off golf to be honest, never ever though about owning one (thats a lie just popped into my head i was going to have a new white gt tdi limited edition last year) i think they nice and all that, but inside **** big let down! And too many how do i put it...hmmm... drug dealers around Cardiff driving them. And idiots driving them. Also i'll say last few months noticed more f*cking kn*bs driving audi's.
    And this thread has made me laugh i've had a **** day probably the worse month of my life at the moment lol but threads like these are making me laugh. The little disagreements and every thing :applaus::respekt:

    Thanks

    Ashley
    #31
  33. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    AUDIS are a `luxury` item, as BMWs as MERCS as are most premium products.

    Why have a £80 Prada T-shirt when NEXT will sell you something 99% the same for a tenner?

    Why have a 2 grand OMEGA watch on your wrist that will go to 4million metres when it will probably never get wet?

    They are the fruits of our labour.
    We want them because they are desirable.
    Because we like them. No apology needed.

    Desirable doesnt mean `fast round a track` or `better built than a SKODA`.
    Desirable means Desirable.
    Its something that makes you `feel good` to have.
    End of story.
    Live and let live.

    Amen.

    Paul
    #32
  34. WiZBiT
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    WiZBiT Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Can I come up for air now? :scared2:
    #33
  35. mac1403
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    mac1403 Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    I agree with the majority of what you are saying. Believe me when I have had my fair share of dealerships whom I would not waste my breath even talking to alone letting them work on my car. BUT, as with anything there are good dealerships out there. My dealings with Tetbury Audi have been second to none with everything dealt with in a timely manner with polite salesmen. I know this is a rare thing now a days.....but they are around. I am on my 5th Audi now and will continue with the brand. Before anyone mentions anything. I have had various other makes between the Audi's and have always gone back to them
    #34
  36. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    I believe there is a "10blazin" to English translator on the 'net somewhere.
    I'll be damned if I can find it though.
    #35
  37. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    :lmfao:

    He'd make a great car auctioneer if he could speak like he writes!
    #36
  38. Don76
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    Don76 Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Back on topic:

    From what I've read, the R20T will be FWD and not 4WD.
    The power output from the 5cyl turbo is only rumoured to be 270bhp which is way down on the output from the RSTT (340ish).

    I'd imagine any RS3 would be close to the 340ish output of the RSTT and of course be 4WD.

    Therein would lie some major differences between RS3 & R20T.

    R20T looks lush though.....
    #37
  39. V6Pete
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    V6Pete Now running on Bentley's y'all

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    It surprises me if VW are looking to put 270bhp through the front wheels. Also the previous R models have always been 4WD...
    #38
  40. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    If VW package and price the R20T right then I would definately consider one.

    AUDI will have to the raise the bar with the S3 power wise, whether it be in the form of a run-out evolution special (like the ED30) of the current 8P S3, RS3 or completely new model.

    Must admit, having gone from a Golf to an S3, I would be happy to forgo the `seat of the pants` attributes the Golf might give you for the looks/trinkets/badge you get with the S3.

    IMO unless the R20T is MUCH better to drive than the current GTi then it wont be MUCH better than the current S3, if at all.

    Be interesting to see how VAG market the two cars anyway.

    cheers
    Paul
    #39
  41. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    i know my English is not the best lol but ive had a hard life and thick schooling lol so up yours pal lol:moa:

    #40

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